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whitelouis

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    1972 Coupe w/ unmolested 1969 351W 4V, headers and a T5.

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    Seattle, WA

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  1. Thanks for the links/pics and input guys! It seems like it's definitely something to pursue, at least to some degree. I'm thinking sheets of aluminum for weight, but not sure exactly how easy that'd be to attach since welding aluminum to steel doesn't really work. Would it have noticeable negative impacts if I were to make small brackets and bolt the sheet to the frame/subframe/floor? I'm not going to have much of a baseline other than stock for comparison, so would I even really notice? Drilling holes and bolting it to the frame doesn't REALLY sound appealing, but sounds better than the extra lbs from sheet steel plus the convenience factor of being able to remove it all. As for heat venting, what is going to be the best method without allowing lots of air to get up in between the pan and the floors? I'd like to cover as much of the bottom of the engine bay as possible, but obviously that's going to require some venting to release all the heat, it seems like drilling some air vents in the pan would be wise, but then that starts to negate the aerodynamic gains, where do I draw the line? I need to read up on this some more before I get into it too heavy, I have a general understanding of aerodynamics and get that the less resistance there is, the better, but perhaps there is a specific book which will enlighten me a great deal? Don - Thanks for the pictures and info, unfortunately I have a coupe :( I feel like the aerodynamics of my rear end are slightly less appealing for top end and efficiency. But I'll work with what I've got for now! Thanks guys! -Louis
  2. Steven - Thanks for the input, I'll be going with a cable for the cost and simplicity, so it's good to know that the full length headers shouldn't be an issue. Don - Thanks for souring the picture, looks like it should be pretty easy to fab up my own radius with some sheet steel. I'll definitely post pictures and measurements when I'm done and it works for anyone who wants to do their own as well. Sadly won't be getting to it in the next couple weekends, going to Montana to visit family and then moving when I get back. One of these days I'll get to it though...I swear!
  3. After seeing this thread: Underbody smoothing it seems to have gotten my interest and other members as well, so I thought rather than cluttering that thread, I'd start a new one. Since the title got me thinking about the aerodynamic effects of smoothing out the underbody of these cars, I was wondering what difference would it make (at high speeds of course) to put an almost complete belly pan on one of these cars? My car is already lowered on stiffer springs and better shocks, I'm planning a front splitter and small rear spoiler (if they'll have a real functional value) and would love it if the front of the car didn't float so much in the 120+ range... I'm thinking of something (probably a thin sheet of aluminum contoured and bolted in along the frame rails) that goes basically all the way from the front valance to the back valance, with a hole for the bottom of the diff and whatever other pieces stick down that low. I may go so far as to put some of those goofy little fins on the very back (on the bottom) if research proves that to be a valuable addition too. I've had my car up over 130 before but ended up backing off because I had 4 wheel manual drums and it was getting pretty serious lift up front. I have no doubt that the car can get to 140+ if I've got the cojones, and I'd love to see how fast it really WILL go on the 42 year old, un-rebuilt motor. For those of you more knowledgeable than I, what do you think? I'm not doing this for mileage improvements, only for improved top speed and handling.
  4. Q - Nice work as always, it's good to have such a knowledgeable resource taking part here so we can pick your brain! I was going to stray from the original topic, but instead I've decided to just start another thread (based on mine and apparently Don's reading of your title) which is here.
  5. Pretty sure this technology is already out, if I recall right, they use these type of shocks on the new Nissan GT-R. Very cool tech though.
  6. Don - It is funny how that tends to happen, for some reason when things are all taken apart they don't like to stay organized or compact. If you could get pictures of your radius attachment that would be great. I still want to do it that way, though I may try to route it the way that xoliex's seems to be routed... Steven - Does it seem to be a problem that it's through/near the headers? Mine are wrapped with header wrap and they are definitely much cooler than just bare metal. Has there been any negative impact from having the cable run so near the exhaust or was it just a pain to route the first time? Thanks guys! It's not looking like I'll be able to jump on it this weekend, but having all this info/pictures for when I do get the chance is great! It will be soon, I promise!
  7. Wow, thanks for the pics. That is WAY different than I expected it to be as far as attachment goes. Every cable T5 conversion I've seen on the earlier cars has a quadrant on top of the pedal and pulls the cable in through the firewall above the pedal. That definitely gives me something to think about in terms of cable routing and how I'm going to attach it to the pedal. That seems pretty simple...still going to try to make my own though :P -Louis
  8. Ooh, thanks for that pdf scan, I should have thought of looking in my factory shop manuals - I have the complete set of Ford factory manuals tucked away, but I always forget about them and have typically been disappointed with what's in there. I figured it must be some sort of return/helper spring thing, but couldn't figure out exactly where it was supposed to go. Do I really need the helper spring thing if I've put roller bearings Don - Do you happen to know - or could you please measure - the distance from the center of the pedal pivot point, to the top of the radius? I'm assuming I could just make a metal copy of the stock plastic radius, minus the goofy teeth, but it would be great to have some measurements to go by when trying to mount it to my pedal. I found this: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BBK5/15055.oap?pt=01331&ppt=C0015 - cable, shock-tower mount/bracket, metal quadrant, firewall adjust - for the fbody. Was thinking I could just go buy it, copy everything, take it back, and just buy a cable? I have plenty of metal, a welder, various cutting utensils, and a lathe for whatever sort of firewall adjuster thing I might want to make. I have the tools and ability to make this kit myself, and I just don't see why $20 or $30 in parts should add up to over $200? The labor doesn't seem that intensive and there really isn't much material or complex engineering that I can see. Am I missing something? xoliex - That would be great if you could post or pm me the link to your photobucket, I'd love to see a T5 actually going into one of these cars. I believe I have all the parts that I need to make it work, short of a functional cable setup. I already have the clutch/bell-housing/everything bolted up to the motor which is sitting in the car, I have the proper cross-member, trans mount, open hole in the floor, complete clutch pedal bracket/assembly from a 1971 Mach 1, and a big shop full of tools with a lift (sadly not at my house, but it is where the car is) - I reasonably expect I can get the trans basically mounted and operational with a full day of work. Pictures would still be a great guide though in case I run into some troubles/confusion :) Does anyone have any tips/pointers/points that I should think about before I try to tackle this? I may try to tackle it this weekend if it's warm enough outside - the shop doesn't have a heater or insulation yet :( Regardless, I'll be taking plenty of hopefully helpful pictures when I do it. I know that it hasn't been done very much on our cars, but who doesn't want to get rid of that boring old automatic and climb on the T5 bandwagon? :P
  9. Jim, what sort of work did you have the machinist do? That seems pretty steep for a machinists bill...and you must have gotten a roller cam?
  10. Just a heads up for next time you or anyone else with bare cast iron pieces laying around (though this is probably already well known by all) - spraying WD-40 on the parts will prevent them from rusting. Not sure how long this protects them for, but a month should be no problem and hopefully if you've got them to bare metal you've got plans to use them soon. When it comes time to use them and you want to get rid of the WD-40, use some rubbing alcohol on a rag or shop towel that's not going to leave little bits of fuzz behind.
  11. Welcome man, looks like you've already got the bug and a good idea of what you want to do with it. Hopefully we can answer whatever questions you've got.
  12. It's currently in the process of becoming a standard. Depending on work and a couple other things it may be driving around some in another month or so...we'll see!
  13. True, I just read the parts that said "I want to take a 351W block and build an engine." and "I'd like to keep it between $2-3000" and just disregarded the stroker part because I agree, $3,000 is not enough for a stroker of pretty much any variety. So now aasukisuki needs to decide whether he wants to build an engine on a budget or build a stroker. Sadly these are two different things. After this question is answered we can help him more. -Louis
  14. This post may sound a little offensive/defensive, and I realize I'm new so here so it may not go over too well with some of you, but I'm seeing a lot of people advocating a more expensive and less educational approach IMO, so I'd like to offer a perspective I haven't really seen here yet. $3000 is not unreasonable if you want to do it yourself. That might be a little low if you're dead set on a stroker motor, but for something that's a little better than stock- be it a 302 or 351W - $3000 should be close to, if not more than enough if you're budget minded. I'm heavily on the side of "Do it yourself." There is a much greater sense of pride and accomplishment when you're riding in a car that's powered by an engine you've put together with your own hands. It's also cheaper and you will learn a lot. It's not THAT difficult to do it yourself, as long as you are patient, stay focused, and have some reasonable books/manuals to guide you along. Just make sure you label everything and keep your stuff organized! It seems that so far most people don't think it's worth it to build your own engine, and I'm a little disappointed that nobody has suggested doing it yourself yet. Don't be scared by the idea of all those parts. If you can find a core motor to use for $150 or so (I see worn out 302s and 351Ws every so often this cheap on craigslist) then you can tear into it and see what sort of stuff is involved, then decide after you've got a better idea of what's involved. I know this may sound like a waste of money, but if you decide to go ahead and do it yourself, then you'll already be almost halfway there! If you get into it and decide that a crate motor or paying somebody else to build it is You won't need many specialty tools - a balancer puller, bearing puller, feeler gauges, and piston sleeve is all I can think of off the top of my head. None of those are incredibly expensive, and if you plan on getting into the automotive hobby world, you'll be glad to have all of them in the future. If somebody sees some non-standard tool that I didn't mention, feel free to post it. There are a lot of things that you can do to make the machinist's bill drop considerably, things like pulling the freeze plugs and completely disassembling the block will make a noticeable dent. If I remember right, it seems like just having a block magnafluxed, cleaned, bored, honed; crank checked, cleaned, ground, and having the pistons put on the rods, etc. the bill has been around $800 - $1,000. A quality engine rebuild kit - which includes new pistons, rings, every bearing you'll need to replace, new freeze plugs, every seal you'll need to replace, some assembly lube, and a new oil pump - is $410 for a 351W: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-MHP176-311/ and $340 for a 302: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-MHP174-300/ from SummitRacing. If you paid a machine shop to buy and install all those parts you'd more than likely be looking at well over $1,000. A cam, lifters, and pushrods shouldn't be more than $200 - $250 unless you want roller-tipped rockers or big HP numbers, then add a couple hundred. You can find used intakes, carburetors, etc. for reasonable prices, ($500 or less for both) and a set of better than stock iron heads like the GT40 or GT40P that came on newer Windsor blocks can be had fully assembled (or buy cores and have them reconditioned) all for well under $600. Using GT40 heads does however mean that you'll need different exhaust manifolds/headers, but again you can find these used (it's just pipe, the only advantage IMO of buying new is that it's shinier) online, local, at a swap meet, whatever, for a reasonable price. If you aren't putting in a big You can find decent GM HEI style electronic ignition distributors with Ford shafts on ebay for less than $100, shipped. These are vastly better than stock and are a very reliable, they'll simplify things and add a little power. Add a $2 - 300 for random, unpredicted costs as well as fluids, belts, plugs, hoses, etc. and that puts the total at about $3,100. Add in a core engine to use and you can bump that to just under $3,300. There are things you could do to make that total lower, like having your heads reconditioned rather than buying new ones, or searching around more to find better deals (I only searched SummitRacing for new parts and looked at the first page of ebay searches for intakes, heads, and carbs) or just using the 302 that's in your car now. Sure, you could buy a crate motor and spend well over $4,000 or pay the machine shop to do everything for you for as much or more, and that would give you an engine that's running and ready to drop in with minimal effort. Or you could save a little money and have a great sense of pride in the end product by doing it yourself. It's also a good chance to learn and make some great memories with friends. There are lots of helpful people on forums like this and http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/ who can help you choose parts, and in my experience, machinists are almost always willing to chat for a while and give you advice for putting things back together if you ask. They are rarely so desperate for work that they'll flat refuse and just tell you to let them do it. Hopefully though this gives you some idea of what's possible and gives you a little confidence that you can do it yourself. Any questions, just ask! -Louis
  15. This post may sound a little offensive/defensive, and I realize I'm new so here so it may not go over too well with some of you, but I'm seeing a lot of people advocating a more expensive and less educational approach IMO, so I'd like to offer a perspective I haven't really seen here yet. $2-3000 is not unreasonable if you want to do it yourself. That might be a little low if you're dead set on a stroker motor, but for something that's a little better than stock- be it a 302 or 351W - $3000 should be close to, if not more than enough if you're budget minded. I'm heavily on the side of "Do it yourself." There is a much greater sense of pride and accomplishment when you're riding in a car that's powered by an engine you've put together with your own hands. It's also cheaper and you will learn a lot. It's not THAT difficult to do it yourself, as long as you are patient, stay focused, and have some reasonable books/manuals to guide you along. Just make sure you label everything and keep your stuff organized! It seems that so far most people don't think it's worth it to build your own engine, and I'm a little disappointed that nobody has suggested doing it yourself yet. Don't be scared by the idea of all those parts. If you can find a core motor to use for $150 or so (I see worn out 302s and 351Ws every so often this cheap on craigslist) then you can tear into it and see what sort of stuff is involved, then decide after you've got a better idea of what's involved. I know this may sound like a waste of money, but if you decide to go ahead and do it yourself, then you'll already be almost halfway there! If you get into it and decide that a crate motor or paying somebody else to build it is You won't need many specialty tools - a balancer puller, bearing puller, feeler gauges, and piston sleeve is all I can think of off the top of my head. None of those are incredibly expensive, and if you plan on getting into the automotive hobby world, you'll be glad to have all of them in the future. If somebody sees some non-standard tool that I didn't mention, feel free to post it. There are a lot of things that you can do to make the machinist's bill drop considerably, things like pulling the freeze plugs and completely disassembling the block will make a noticeable dent. If I remember right, it seems like just having a block magnafluxed, cleaned, bored, honed; crank checked, cleaned, ground, and having the pistons put on the rods, etc. the bill has been around $800 - $1,000. A quality engine rebuild kit - which includes new pistons, rings, every bearing you'll need to replace, new freeze plugs, every seal you'll need to replace, some assembly lube, and a new oil pump - is $410 for a 351W: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-MHP176-311/ and $340 for a 302: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-MHP174-300/ from SummitRacing. If you paid a machine shop to buy and install all those parts you'd more than likely be looking at well over $1,000. A cam, lifters, and pushrods shouldn't be more than $200 - $250 unless you want roller-tipped rockers or big HP numbers, then add a couple hundred. You can find used intakes, carburetors, etc. for reasonable prices, ($500 or less for both) and a set of better than stock iron heads like the GT40 or GT40P that came on newer Windsor blocks can be had fully assembled (or buy cores and have them reconditioned) all for well under $600. Using GT40 heads does however mean that you'll need different exhaust manifolds/headers, but again you can find these used (it's just pipe, the only advantage IMO of buying new is that it's shinier) online, local, at a swap meet, whatever, for a reasonable price. If you aren't putting in a big You can find decent GM HEI style electronic ignition distributors with Ford shafts on ebay for less than $100, shipped. These are vastly better than stock and are a very reliable, they'll simplify things and add a little power. Add a $2 - 300 for random, unpredicted costs as well as fluids, belts, plugs, hoses, etc. and that puts the total at about $3,100. Add in a core engine to use and you can bump that to just under $3,300. There are things you could do to make that total lower, like having your heads reconditioned rather than buying new ones, or searching around more to find better deals (I only searched SummitRacing for new parts and looked at the first page of ebay searches for intakes, heads, and carbs) or just using the 302 that's in your car now. Hopefully though this gives you some idea of what's possible and gives you a little confidence that you can do it yourself. Sure, you could buy a crate motor and spend about $4,500, or pay the machine shop to do everything for you for about the same. That would give you an engine that's running and ready to drop in with minimal effort, or you could save a little money and have a great sense of pride in the end product by doing it yourself. There are lots of helpful people on forums like this and www.vintage-mustang.com who can help you choose parts, and in my experience, machinists are almost always willing to chat for a while and give you advice for putting things back together if you ask. They are rarely so desperate for work that they'll flat refuse and just tell you to let them do it.
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