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Everything posted by Wolverine

  1. Pick your tires before your wheels. 15" tires are getting pretty tough to come by, especially if you don't like Goodrich.
  2. I'm just accidental...at least that's what my paren't always told me. Ever make it to Big Boy's? The burger joint, not the club....not that there is anything wrong with the club.
  3. I wouldn't buy toilet paper from Drake. I have had good luck with MOOG. However, that arm is always going to give you trouble. I went with a TPS arm and never looked back....well I did look back...but I didn't regret it.
  4. You may want to do some calculations and determine the HEAD GASKET THICKNESS you want to run. 1. If your piston goes over the block, you may need a thick gasket for clearance. 2. Depending on what compression you are shooting for, your gasket thickness may play a factor.
  5. I know I am going to get a lot of crap for this(ok more than the normal amount of crap), but my VIN number is 11 digits long. So, actually, to be fully accurate, there is a PARTIAL VIN stamped on the motor and trans. I am guessing 1st 2 digits of stamp are first 2 digits of VIN. Last 6 digits of stamp are last 6 digits of VIN. If the entire VIN were stamped on the motor, you would know from the VIN whether the motor was a Q, R, H, etc. I know it is hard to get good photos of stamps, but I don't see a Q in there anywhere. And, as far as the term numbers matching goes, I have never liked that term. It is too ambiguous. If I file off the partial vin on my motor, and put on a new VIN, I can have a numbers matching car. I believe "numbers matching" has gained LEGAL STATUS as buyers are now suing sellers for misusing the term. I may have had a lot of misconceptions going into this thread, but I am leaving with very few. So, to be clear, I think we agree with this guy: http://www.ebay.com/gds/Ford-351-Cleveland-Engines-Key-Facts-amp-Information/10000000001410755/g.html However, I think he could do a better job by using columns to be consistent in the facts he is stating from one engine year to another. I think he should also cite references such as service manuals, dealer order books, etc. So guys like me can save a lot of time scrounging through manuals.
  6. Quite a discussion regarding 4 bolt main 351C 4V motors. The question arose how can you tell without dropping the oil pan. How about going over to Harbor Freight and buying one of those probes with a video camera on the end? Next oil change, stick that probe into the oil pan and have a look see. Not sure if the probe can be used in a "volatile" oil pan environment, so have your fire extinguisher ready. Let us know what you find.
  7. VIN is stamped in the block??? Really. Do you have a photo of the VIN on your dash, and a photo of the VIN on the block? There is a CASTING number on the block. Does not match the VIN. I don't think anything I have said refutes Don, or vice versa...although 10-15 72 4 bolts is quite a lot. And I don't think there is any disagreement a 351 Boss was a 4 bolt or that was a 1971 date code. But, you think I would have found one a 351 4V with a 1972 date code and 4 bolt mains. I must have looked for 18 months for a good STD bore 351 4V date coded 1972 or 1973. Gave up and bought a 1971 4V with 2 bolt mains. Regarding valves, "the book" lists a 351C regardless of 2v or 4v, as having 2.032-2.050 Intake, 1.705-1.715 Exhaust. Interesting on the valve springs, the HO(there is no CJ listed on the specification page of the service manual) has 299-331, the 4v 271-299, and the 2v 199-221(see page 21-22-27 of prior attachment).
  8. As stated, there were 4 bolt mains left over from the Boss run. As a result, you have the fortunate circumstance of getting a Boss block no charge. Don't tell the wife. There are a variety of outstanding people on this site. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I like to see documentation...service manuals, owners manuals, drawings, spec manuals. I have posted a lot of pages to this site so people have the facts. And, unfortunately, I pretty much want the facts to rule when it comes to the information on this site. When someone gives me the facts, like a guy is Original Owner of a 72 351 CJ and it came with 4 bolt mains, what am I supposed to do. However, if he is the 3rd owner of a car with undocumented mileage, I am going to stick with the service manual and the spec manual... That being said, there is nothing documented that a 72 351 CJ has 4 bolt mains. Most have 2. Does anyone believe Ford randomly drilled extra holes in blocks and girdles for fun? The reasonable and most likely explanation is leftovers. Wish I had leftovers. On the other hand, I have asked for and not yet even seen a Ford Service Manual detailing the tightening order for a 4 bolt main motor. There are plenty of 2 bolt main instructions. So, does that mean Ford never built a 4 bolt main 351? No. As far as I can tell there is only one little pre production pamphlet for the BOSS that indicates a 4 bolt main(at least I think it is in there). But, people shouldn't get upset if there 351C 4V with or without CJ HO 4V or whatever doesn't have 4 bolt mains....unless they think they have a BOSS. And a BOSS motor is easy enough to forge. And...since I have the time, this is a great educational site. I am not always right, and have had to eat crow at least twice. But the facts were brought to light, giving us all the opportunity to be properly educated about our cars. The more we are educated, the more we can talk on the same level and get to the important stuff, like how best to make our cars loud and proud. So, go get loud.
  9. Wow...That is great. I would have to believe someone could reproduce it for you. Also, and I am not doubting the Q code one bit, but it is interesting there is no mention of a 4v on this sticker, and no mention of CJ, which is what the Q in the VIN would indicate. I know at this time in the emissions history of our cars, they didn't have time to record all of the details on the sticker. However, that sticker is a keeper. THANKS!!!! s What is interesting is the one here: http://catalog.osborn-reproduction.com/index.php?productID=76729 It is a SA instead of an RA, and it looks so much different I am not sure I agree with his note that the sticker shown on this link is after 1-1-1973 because I have not seen one like it that I can recall on any 1973 Mustan I have seen. But you might ask him to reproduce yours...
  10. Beautiful. I notice the CONFORMS TO CALFORNIA EMISSIONS on the label. Are you aware if the car was ever to California? I know in the late 70's and onward, most all Fords conformed to California Emissions...well, not really. But Ford put the sticker on anyway and had the dealers fiddle around with the cars. Some guys here want to use this sticker as evidence the car is a California original car, but I would disagree. Perhaps you can lend credence to this.] Thanks.
  11. Wow...there is a lot of bad information in this thread. After my rant below are answers to your original questions... As I recall, you wanted to be able to tell if a block was a CJ or not. First, there is NO WAY to confirm the block is a CJ. You can discuss date codes on the block, and certainly 72 casting were put in 73 Mustangs....how else would a 73 Mustang bought in October of 73 have a engine. However, it is not outside of the realm of possibilities a 71 casting made it into a 73. And certainly, 73 castings were found in Mustangs. I had one. From the dealer. June 1973. Second, regarding 4 bolt mains. I have torn apart 3 351C motors- 1971,1972, 1973. All were factory 4V motors. Zero had 4 bolt mains. As stated previously, I am unaware of any 4 bolt 351C motor except the Boss and a few stragglers in 1971. It is fairly easy and not uncommon to have builders add the bolts. But a 4 bolt main is no guarantee of a 351C CJ. Third, in the 1973 Ford Service Manual and Specifications Manual(Both attached), you will find the following: 1. The SPECIFICATION MANUAL(Second and final printing) does not mention the HO. Only the CJ. 2. The Service Manual mentions the CJ once. In regards to the VIN. This is where the famous Q CODE designation is found. If someone can show me other pages mentioning CJ, I would sure like to see them. 3. The service manual mentions HO multiple times. In fact, it is pretty interesting to review the differences(very few and very slight) between the HO and non HO motor. It is interesting the piston clearance is greater in the HO. Now, are the manual and specification booklets perfect sources of information. NO. Try to find a reference to the 351 BOSS in the 1971 Ford Service Manuals. In the end the use of the term CJ was just a marketing ploy. tHO was probably used, but then someone realized it was "false advertising", so they went to the tried and true CJ from the 428 and 429 glory days. VariousEngine.pdf VariousEngine_SpecBook.pdf 1. were there cobra jets in 73. Well, not technically a cobra jet. A CJ. 2 what qualifies a 351 as a CJ See Attachments 3 how do we identify a CJ apart from pulling the sump off to see the 4 bolt mains , is this right? WRONG 4 mine is a 73 Q code i have the marti report it says Q 351 4V Engine should it say CJ if it is a CJ ? CJ MIGHT BE ON THE AIR CLEANER DECAL and on the EMISSION STICKER ON THE VALVE COVER. and just to make it more confusing im the 3rd owner a doctor bought it in 73 1 has no power steering as not stated on report. Doesn't matter 2 has air cond Doesn't matter. 3 had dealer fitted ram air as i know factory ram air wasnt available for Q code No Big Deal. 4 diff is 9 conventional 3.25 non posi track...not an issue hurst shifter with dealer T bar Knob. Not an issue. it just seems a weird combo no power steering but all the go fast bits but no posi trak? Doesn't matter. so if any of this makes sence im just wondering if she,s a cobra jet or not thanks guys Dave Tommy If your VIN is a Q code as shown on page 1 of the first attachment, and the motor is original to the car(Don't know how you determine that), then it would be a CJ. I don't think the term COBRA JET was used. CJ was used to imply Cobra Jet...thereby the lack of cobra's anywhere on the car.
  12. My wife warned me to stay away from the bottom.
  13. Don't let the California legislature see all that wood. Shame on you for displaying all those trees. The only kind of wood the state endorses is...well...let's not go there.
  14. +1 on that. And, I definitely had rubber on my first OEM 73 Mustang. Not saying they didn't have metal, but I would prefer the rubber. Won't chip the paint. My 70 XR7 has rubber.
  15. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No CRATE MOTOR!!!!!!!!!!!! Ugh.....Q...you know I have respect for you, but putting a crate motor in your Mustang is like sharing your bed with a Pam Anderson doll....sure, you can pretend for a while and have a few minutes of fun. But the doll is a POSER. Sooner, more often than later, the doll is going to run out of air. And trust me, a Pam Anderson doll lacking air is like Paris Hilton doll with air. Who want's that? Now, I am not sure what $7k would buy you, but why not go SUPERCHARGER on a 302??? Probably fit under the hood. Not sure about the long range, but it is only a 302. Purrs. Looks stunning. Fast. Now we are talking FERGIE in the flesh. And as far as the tranny goes, do the AOD. On the 351C forum there is Dan Jones. I am sure you heard of him. He dropped an AOD into one of his machines. I don't think it was his Pantera, but I am sure he would share his good information. Says it was the best thing he ever did, and he has done lots. And an AOD with a 302 with a Supercharger would be perfect. Wish I would have thought of it before I built my 351c. I was too hung up on the 351c. And, in fact, I have a 302 you can HAVE...plus shipping and handling. Just remember to put my name on the valve cover. james
  16. Actually, that was the motor my car was born with. TAKE CARE OF THOSE STICKERS, especially the smog. That is the ONLY ACCURATE specs for your motor. Got 1!!!
  17. Hey...I've been to Reggio Emilia many times. Do you know Maria and Tony Bonagucci? They had 3 kids. Tony Jr, Poppo and Frank. Nah...just kidding.
  18. It is amazing to me anyone watches the news anymore. For the past 2 weeks the local news has been telling us about the Southern California HEAT WAVE. Are they kidding me? My AC hasn't been on yet this year. If there was a heat wave we would be blacking/browning out all over the place...(can we still say black out and brown out? Where are the moderators). Piece of garbage news. Almost wonder if OBAMA really won the election.
  19. Regarding 4 bolt mains. 4 Bolt mains were primarily BOSS motors. It has been determined a few 4 bolts slipped through the line into standard 351C 4V's. But those blocks would be D1AE or D0AE. CJ in regards to the 351C is strictly a marketing term. It is IMPOSSIBLE to determine a CJ block from a non CJ block. CJ Heads would be 4V. But, not necessarily closed chamber. Not necessarily open chamber due to the years involved. On the other hand, if you have a 428 CJ...well, that would be a different story.
  20. You neglected to use your left turn signal when moving your car from the curb. Naughty.
  21. Reasons for no: 1. You drive straight. 2. You drive very little. Reasons for yes: 1. You drive like a mad man. 2. The rubber on the OEM suspension sucks, wheres out the minute you start driving, and deteriorates quickly. 3. You like to have the car turn with the wheel. Things to be careful of: More traction on the front end means greater chance of the rear end coming around on a turn, what we Nascar guys call a LOOSE condition. Don't ask me how to test this. As the French say, j'ne sait pas.
  22. Wow...this is a first. Someone defending me. 72H...you are my hero!!!!
  23. Angelo's Drive In. Anaheim. First Friday, 7:30-1030pm. Just follow the best looking waitress to our table.
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