A Big "What If?"

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Precision Transmission

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How do you think the Mustang would have fared in the pony car wars of the mid to late 70s? Now the big if here is; what if Ford had continued the '71-'73 body style right through to 1980 or 1981 as GM did with their "F" body.

Pontiac led the way through most of it with the Trans Am and Formula, even when Chevrolet put the Z-28 on haitus at the end of the '74 model year. From 1971 to 1976, Pontiac had a 455 available at some point in each model year. Chevrolet dropped the big block option from the Camaro after 1972, but the L-82 350 kept performance alive in the Z-28 until the end of the '74 model year. Even with the introduction of catalytic convertors, the L-82 continued on in the Corvette for several more years.

How do you envision Ford would have handled the situation? They dropped their big block option after '71, making them the first to abandon the 400+ cid arena. Could the Cleveland headed engines have kept the Mustang on par with the 400 and 455 cid Trans Am?

The second generation Trans Am, and Z28 developed quite a reputation for handling which only got better with the introduction of radial tires and wider rims. The addition of rear disc brakes to the Firebird line in '79 stepped thing up even more.

If you had been in charge of Mustang and Cougar from '71, and you were to take it through to 1980-'81, how would you have kept up with Pontiac and Chevrolet? Keep it real and bear in mind things like emissions, and the engineering limits for the day.

Hope this becomes a very lively and interesting discission

 
The "Big" 71-73's might have been sales compettive with the F-Birds. However with out the 74-78 pinto based stangs there prolly wouldent have been a Fox series of Mustang.

Now, had I been incharge at the time there would have been a downsizing to a Maverick sized Mustang, after the 71-73's. With a eye to keeping the 71-73 ride quality. However that would be, a whole different set of Iffa-wouldda-coulda-shoudda's.

 
I am not sure the Cleveland architecture would have been able to survive the ever tightening post 73 emissions requirements. However, the 400 and the 460 did in passenger car applications and we all know that these engines are capable performance platforms. A resurgence of the 351W in a Mustang/Cougar may have been a viable option as well.

A 460 SCJ would have been an interesting exercise.

 
I don't know that Ford would've carried the chassis all the way through '80-'81 with just nose & tail treatments (like GM was able to do with Camaros and Firebirds/Trans Ams). I'm thinking there would've been a subtle change to sheet metal (if not overall size) around '75 (since Ford is so fond of odd-year new design releases). There's no obvious transition from the '73 to Fox-body platforms, but maybe something like a Maverick-sized/styled transition model could've happened, and possibly morphed into a slightly less-boxy Fox-body.

Can you imagine a majorly massaged Maverick-sized 'fastback' with a '71-'73 styled nose and tail light panel (with Shelby-like tail lights), having a similarly styled Ram Air hood as well? I'm thinking that would've been pretty dang cool!

 
If Ford would have kept the Mustang big, as in 71-73, it would have quickly died a slow and inglorious death, and would have been out of production by 76.

The insurance regs &safety concerns had basically killed the super-car and pony car market by late 1970. No pony car was selling well enough to warrant continued production. The Camaro and Firebird hung on barely through tough and dedicated fans within GM, but even that was not enough to keep "muscle" alive. The Z28 was killed after 74, the Trans Am was soon to follow. The Cuda and Challenger were laid to rest, the Javelin dissappared and the Mustang was now a Pinto-Stang.

The first Arab oil-embargo accidentally made the Mustsng II ( and any other small-ish car that smelled of economy) overnight sensations. Tbis was the final nail in the "pony car" coffin. They were all gone, save for the Camaro/Firebird, which was scheduled to go out in 79.

GM engineer Herb Adams fought tooth and nail to keep the Trans Am dream alive, and at seemingly the very last minute before cancellation, along came first-time movie director and former stuntman Hal Needham with his little low-budget car-crash movie, looking for some cars to be donated for his upcoming movie. Turned down by Ford, GM. and Chrysler, he was having lunch one day with Pontiac's marketing manager and singing the blues about no one supplying any cars. He was offered 6 cobbled-up test-mule/ prototypes of the new 77 TrsnsAm ( made from 75 and 76 models) along with 6 LeMans'.with the agreement that none of them were to survive beyond filming...since they were due to be crushed anyway.

As we all know "Smokey and the Bandit" was the surprise monster hit of 77 ( surpassed ONLY by Star Wars!) and was basically a 90-minute commercial for Trans Ams. GM could not have bought that kind of good advertising for $10 million if they even wanted to.

The success of that movie rejuvinated and re-invigorated the love of "yesterdays" muscle cars, and GM was conveniantly poised to ride the wave.

Sales of GM F-bodjes skyrocketed, to the tune of about 500,000 a year from 78 through 80. Quality was dismal as they could barely screw them together fast enough to keep up with demand.

All things with even an appearance of performance was popular again, and decal-based hot-rods were offered in nearly every product line...even full size cars! Most of them were atrocious as all the "Big Three" were trying to grab whatever sales they could , but a few were OK.

I truly belive that "Smokey" is the impetus for what kept the genre alive when it was dying on life support.

The Mustang II was a turd, but if Mustang had stayed big, it would have died altogether.

 
The Z/28 performance package wasn't actually "killed," any more than the Formula Firebird - it's numbers simply dwindled after '71 until they eventually discontinued offering it. It was brought back in '77 as a trim/performance package (albeit as the Z-28... see what I did there? ;) )

"Smokey and the Bandit" definitely was a shot in the arm for the Trans Am... just like Dukes of Hazzard and Knight Rider made everybody want '69 Chargers and '82 Trans Ams, as well as Transformers helped the current-gen Camaros surge in sales (along with absence from the market). I guess the magic formula is to get the cars on-screen flying through the air, and you'll sell more of them.

I just wish the original "Gone in 60 Seconds" would've had a bigger fan base.

 
The Arab oil-embargo, EPA and Safety requirements in a perfect storm came all came together in 1973 that created real panic, speed limits were lowered, gas prices tripled and in many areas was rationed. Where I lived we had rolling power outages for months, everyone was forced to conserve. Car lots couldn't keep small cars on the car lot, large cars remained on the sales lots.

I remember that period, very few people would have been interested in a 74 Mustang the size of our cars, many thought the oil shortage was there to stay.

 
What an interesting thread. I was a young kid through the seventies. My dad bought a 74 Mustang II Ghia. The main muscle car that I remembered seeing was my much older cousin's grabber blue Mach 1. Come to think about this he didn't drive it much when I was a kid in the 70s. He still has that car but I haven't seen it in many years.

I think Kit and others are right on the money with the answers. It would have been interesting to see a Mach 1 Maverick sized Mustang instead of the Mustang II Mach 1.

 
My father was a true entrepeneur. He liked to work hard and then invest his money. (We played hard too...) He sold cars as a side/second job and finally purchased a small car lot back around 1973. He was buying cars wholesale; mainly dealer trade-ins, to place on the lot for sale. Almost every small car lot back then had muscle cars for sale. Ours was no different. But the little economy cars were selling the best. Datsuns and Subarus were our favorites but they were tough to buy. Hondas were just getting established but also desirable. Muscle cars, station wagons and pickups were everywhere and easy to get.

I have to agree with many on this thread - the 71-3 Mustangs would have died soon after 73 if that platform was allowed to continue. Even in 1973 power was WAY down in all cars, including the Mustangs. So high-performance demands were fading fast, replaced by consumers calling for economy. Insurance companies and special interest groups were pressuring for better safety (remember Ralph Nader?).

And while Ford and others still had big blocks - they were terribly choked of power. I drove a bunch of them. And in my personal experience/opinion, all cars in the late 70's and early 80's were embarrasing on power. The goofy bodykits, wings and graphics just couldn't make-up for the earlier raw power of the mid-late 60's and early 70's vehicles. Even Camaros were dogs. Sure you could hop them up and swap motors but I'm talking as originally equipped. Dodge/Chrysler's 1978 "Little Red Truck" was a glim attempt at some respectable power - it could do the 1/4 mile in the mid 14's. When 82 HO Mustangs appeared, it began to look more promising. Jump to today - now we have new 6 cyl cars with 300 plus HP. Impressive to say the least.

Ray

 
I dont see the dinstiction between "killed" and "discontinued". I simply meant the z-28 package was discontinued due to dwindling sales. Purely a business decision. The Trans Am held on because of a passionate few executives within Pontiac fought hard to keep it in the mix. These guys were responsible for the 290 hp ( some say 310 horse...never actually made) 455 SD Trans Am that was arguably the absolute last gasp and last true muscle car out of Detroit. The 455 HO that followed it wasn't even close...it was a real yawner.

The 2 1/2 year hiatus before the Z-28 returned was actually good for it in the long run. What ceased production as the last of a "muscle car" was somewhat reimagined and brought back as more of an all-around refined sports-handler as opposed to track-bred racer. The 77.5 Z-28 surprised me that it sold so well, considering what the previous Z-28s were.

Years later I had a 79 4-speed Z-28 that was one of the best and most fun cars I ever had. All I did was replace the weezing and worn-out LM4 160-horse 350 with a simple ZZ+4 crate motor...and that car came to life!

The Maverick was Iaccoca's effort to rekindle a fever with a car inspired by previous Mustangs, and it was a quick, although short-lived success.

I too think the Maverick was very Mustang-like, but the market just wasn't hot for a car like that.

Our big Mustangs are beloved by many today, much more than when they were "current". I remember having many heated discussions with guys back then who thought the new ( in 71) Mustangs were a joke: big, ugly, cumbersome and out-of-touch.

I always loved the style, and now feel vindicated that I recognized its greatness from the start.

Several have made mention of a "Mach 1"-style version of a Maverick would have been nice. They did sell the Maverick "Grabber" a somewhat pretentious sporty version of the Maverick: scooped hood, bold decals, Magnum 500s, and a mild 302 2V. Not a true "Mach 1" level performer, but then again...every Mach 1 was not CJ-fortified barnburner either.

The Grabber was only mildly succesful, and it soon faded away.

 
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"Killed" = Grande. When was the last Grande package offered?

"Discontinued because of dwindling numbers, but later re-instated" is what happened to the Z28 package - hardly "killed," since it was reinstated in '77.

"Killed" just sounds so much more permanent. Like Edsel, LTD, Ranchero, Bronco, Gran Torino, Country Squire, Vega, Monza, Chevette, El Camino, et al... ;)

A little bit of a difference in terminology... but not enough to really argue about. :D

 
LOL..... IF

IF had been born wealthy I could have bought all of you 71 429 4spds Mach I's !!! and IF i was born wealthy I would have ordered them in matching number sequence specific for this 71-73 Mustangs group.

Let's face it the LIBERALS whinned that muscle cars were using up all the gas because Jimmy Carter promoted the mantra that THE WORLD WAS RUNNING OUT OF GAS!!! Therefore Ford dropped our cars...went with the wind of public believe and supplied us with the Mustang II POS! here we are 40 years later with EVERY manufacture making 500 plus horse power cars.... and what if's are as easy to create as a 3 year olds idea of what to do with an easy bake oven.

 
LOL..... IF

...Let's face it the LIBERALS whinned that muscle cars were using up all the gas because Jimmy Carter promoted the mantra that THE WORLD WAS RUNNING OUT OF GAS!!! Therefore Ford dropped our cars...
Well there was the global cooling going on at the same time, we were warned that if we didn't "conform" with the EPA requirements and reduce carbon output our planet would be one frozen mass by 2000, wacko times. Lots of people got rich.

 
LOL..... IF

...Let's face it the LIBERALS whinned that muscle cars were using up all the gas because Jimmy Carter promoted the mantra that THE WORLD WAS RUNNING OUT OF GAS!!! Therefore Ford dropped our cars...
Well there was the global cooling going on at the same time, we were warned that if we didn't "conform" with the EPA requirements and reduce carbon output our planet would be one frozen mass by 2000, wacko times. Lots of people got rich.
LMAO Jim!!!!!!!!! so true!!!

 
Okay!! My apologies for not making myself clear. My intent wasn't to drag up all the political drama, nor the economic woes from the 1970s. My intent was: if Ford had kept the '71 to '73 body style until 1980 or '81, what would likely have appeared to compete with the GM "F" bodies? Pontiac had the 455SD; an amazing engine with nice manners and killer performance. When the 455 engine was retired, the Pontiac engineers stepped up with the W72 400. Performance increased every year until 1979. Pontiac also worked wonders with suspension and brakes. Over at Chevrolet, when the Z28 was brought back in mid '77, it had a much improved suspension, and good 4 speed teamed with a 3.73 rear axle ratio, then in 1980, cold air induction made a comeback. The 350 engine in the Z28 was only the LM1, not the L82 option from the Corvette, not even the L48 standard Corvette engine.

How do you think Ford would have responded, or even better, led? Example; Granada/Monarch/Versailles could be had with rear disc brakes, before the option was available on a GM car. Don't see why the Mustang couldn't have had them in 1975. Ford had better catalytic convertors than GM, (And eventually in 1986 came out with the first true dual exhaust system equipped with convertors. This may only have been possible due to the use of EFI, but you get the picture).

How would the Mustang suspension have evolved to compete with the Trans Am and Z28? Perhaps an Export brace for our cars may have been developed. The rear steer set-up would have been a limiting factor, yes, but who says they couldn't change that?

How do you think engine options would have played out? Hopefully not a 351W unless the GT40 heads were brought forward 15 years. (Not as much of a stretch as you may think.) The 335 series engines would actually run cleaner with their flat poly-angle valve combustion chamber than a wedge engine. The low block 351 was discontinued after 1974 in an effort to consolidate. When Ford abandoned the 400cid class, the 351M naturally went with it. However, the low deck 351 continued in production in Australia until 1982. Could Ford have made a 460 that would have been competitive with Pontiac's 455SD? How would Jack Rousch have faired compared to Herb Adams?

 
I think in true ford fashion, it would have been equipped with a smaller, less powerful engine than their competitors. 302 2v, 351M 2v, with the "top dog" being the wheezing 150hp 2v 400. Would have been single exhaust too, to deal with the 1st gen cat converter.

Improved handling...? Pfft. Maybe an optional monroe gas shock package....

 
OK, your time-line is only slightly screwed up: The 71-73 Mustangs were already "lame ducks" and scheduled for discontinuation before the 71 model year was hardly even underway. The Mustang II was well into development by then, and it was definitely the plan.

Jimmy Carter (POTUS #39) did not become Prez until 1977...well after the saga of the 71-73 Mustangs had been written into the history books.

Many stories over the years have been written as to how the government safety regs and the supposed oil-shortages and Arab oil embargo(s) caused the death of the Super Car (Muscle Car).

But that is simply not the case: The demise of the original Super car era came about because of expensive insurance premiums, causing young people not to be able to insure the vehicles, therefore not able to purchase them.

This was coupled with the ever-tightening demands of emissions equipment, which tended to rob the engines of thier performance.

"Safety Regs" were there, and were increasing all the time but were not all that responsible for slow sales. The big cow-catcher 5-mph bumpers may have been ugly, but it didn't prevent them from selling the cars.

The gas shortages and oil embargos came later (in 74 and 77), and if anything, were directly responsible for the instant success of the Mustang II in mid-74...along with all other eco-minded cars avaialable then.

Imagine if the Mustang had retained its size from 71-73 well into 74 and 75...the craze for fuel efficient small cars surely would have sent that old nag to the glue factory for sure. That would have been terrible for the history of our beloved Mustang.

Very coincidentally, the Mustang II was EXACTLY the right car at the right time for Ford and for Mustang history. Not a great car, but the RIGHT car.

Just like the Omni/ Horizon K-car crap-mobiles from the "New Chrysler" in '84...not great cars, not even good cars...but the right car for Chrysler at the time.

 
The demise of the original Super car era came about because of expensive insurance premiums' date=' causing young people not to be able to insure the vehicles, therefore not able to purchase them.[/quote']
I was in my early - mid twenties in 1974-76 and I recall (because of my devotion to the 71-73 styling) being offered a 68 Shelby GT-350 convertible for $2K, A 70 Boss 9 for $2K and several other similar deals.

The problem was the annual insurance ranged from $2K - $3K. I had several 71 M-code Mach 1's whose insurance was ranged from $800 - $1,000. I recall the base answer to insurance agent's question: "What engine does it have?" was usually: "I think it's a V-8, but I'm not sure...."
 
+1 to everyone that mentioned the oil embargo and safety regs. I remember that I could only buy gas every other day. And being limited to something like ten gallons. Had my 73 SR then. Bought a 65 6cyl to drive to work just to save money. They were selling used Cuda's with big blocks and 6packs for $1,500 and having trouble selling them. Now they sell at BJ for 100k easy. Dad bought a new Pinto then later a Mustang ll both for better fuel mileage. The Mustang ll went twice as far as my 73 on the dollar. Still paying for the car, I would have lost money had I sold it. It was cheaper to keep her.

 
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