Installed new clutch with diaphragm style pressure plate - pedal does not come back

Hi guys,

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

So I have read a few posts like these

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

What should I do now?

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

Thanks,

Tim

I run a diaphragm clutch with no assist spring, the diaphragm usually has a softer pedal. Usually the only spring I use with a diaphragm clutch is to keep the throw out bearing from riding on the fingers. Diaphragm pressure plates can over center if there is too much travel.

Hi Droptop73,

thank you for your Answer!

So you have only the spring directly at the release bearing arm to keep it back from the fingers after changing a gear?

With the assist spring you mean the big spring behind the tach in the dash? Did you remove it because the diaphragm style does not need it?

What do you mean with over center the pressure plate?

Sorry for my few questions but I am new on that clutch system...

Tim

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk

Tim-

The big assist spring under the dash was intended by Ford to help the driver in disengaging the clutch with the old-school Long style pressure plates. With the newer diaphragm pressure plate, there is now too much assist as you have found (assuming that I've read your post correctly).

The last one of these that I did I used a 5.0L HO diaphragm clutch setup and I removed the assist spring and all was fine...

I am using a retrofit clutch pedal on a conversion, I never had an assist spring.

The assist spring can be removed with the diaphragm clutch-but please be careful it is a beefy part and it can take out an eye or give you one hell of a wallop if it is not respected

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/transmission-articles/481163-ball-bearing-clutch-pedal-support.html

read down through the third post for removal trick that might be helpful

Great, guys, thank you! I really appreciate your help!!!

Tim-

The big assist spring under the dash was intended by Ford to help the driver in disengaging the clutch with the old-school Long style pressure plates. With the newer diaphragm pressure plate, there is now too much assist as you have found (assuming that I've read your post correctly).

The last one of these that I did I used a 5.0L HO diaphragm clutch setup and I removed the assist spring and all was fine...

Click to expand...

Hi Mjlan,

yes, you've read it correctly, that's exactly my issue. So I have understood the clutch system now and know what to do

I am using a retrofit clutch pedal on a conversion, I never had an assist spring.

Click to expand...

Ok, thank you

The assist spring can be removed with the diaphragm clutch-but please be careful it is a beefy part and it can take out an eye or give you one hell of a wallop if it is not respected

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/transmission-articles/481163-ball-bearing-clutch-pedal-support.html

read down through the third post for removal trick that might be helpful

Click to expand...

Thanks, Jeff! That's a very good tip and now it seems to be an easy thing

You, guys, on the 7173MUSTANGS.com are the best!!!

Made my day :banana:

Tim

let us know if that works for you. I run a long style clutch and still need my assist spring at the moment.

I will do so of course !

Tim

Usually the over-the-top assist spring stops working with a diaphragm clutch at high RPM, not at idle or with the engine off. Nevertheless, try removing the assist spring and see what happens. I agree you do need a small spring to keep the throw-out bearing off of the clutch disk/pressure plate fingers when the pedal is not engaged.

I agree you do need a small spring to keep the throw-out bearing off of the clutch disk/pressure plate fingers when the pedal is not engaged.

Click to expand...

Hmm, it seems that this spring is missing. The shop from which I bought the diaphragm clutch mentioned that in 30 years they installed this clutch they NEVER had to remove the assist spring behind the tach IF the whole system is functional as it should. They said that the second spring to the firewall is important too for that system.

Is that the mentioned spring:

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=3123

When installed the clutch last weekend I did not see such a spring - I will have a look tomorrow under the car. Could the absence of this spring also cause my problem?

Tim

you need that spring from the linkage to the clutch fork to bring the clutch fork back and fully release the throw out bearing. While it will work without it, you'll experience a clutch pedal that may not come back up fully (Your problem as I understand it) and excessive throwout bearing wear and noise and the potential for the rod that engages the clutch lever to rattle loose and drop out of position making your clutch pedal useless.

As to the need to remove the assist spring. The diaphragm style clutch uses weights to apply pressure and as such it has lower initial pedal effort. If you are okay with the pedal feel leave it alone, if the pedal feels "numb" or overly liught or the pedal still does not fully return (which I believe the centerforce instructions specifically discuss) you will want the assist spring out.

In the meantime, get a spring on the clutch fork

Jeff,

thank you for your detailed response - that sounds good!

I will check that out over the weekend! Hope there will be an old spring flying around the garage...

Tim

Yeah, pretty much any spring will help, old drum brake springs are close. Order the right one, but a hardware store spring can easily be made to work

Yeah, pretty much any spring will help, old drum brake springs are close. Order the right one, but a hardware store spring can easily be made to work

Click to expand...

+1 ::thumb::

I will order the right one but in the meantime another spring must do it...

Mine does the same thing. I think someone replaced my clutch at sone point as under hard acceleration or high rpms the clutch pedal will stay down. I took a few looks at that huge spring ubder there and decided my eyes, fingers, and head are worth keeping. I've learned to push clutch and leave about of inch of travel before hitting floor. It keeps me from getting wild hairs and burning rubber through the gears and wasting tires.

I'd be lying if I said I liked it that way.

Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk

Hi guys,

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

So I have read a few posts like these

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

What should I do now?

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

Thanks,

Tim

Click to expand...

Hi guys,

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

So I have read a few posts like these

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

What should I do now?

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

Thanks,

Tim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi guys,

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

So I have read a few posts like these

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

What should I do now?

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

Thanks,

Tim

Click to expand...

Hi guys,

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

So I have read a few posts like these

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

What should I do now?

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

Thanks,

Tim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi guys,

my buddy and I pulled the motor out and in at the last weekend to renew my freeze plugs, flush the cooling system, change the oil pan to 7 qt and some other things including a new clutch and pressure plate.

It is a good Sachs system in diaphragm style. The problem is now that the clutch pedal often remains to stick on the floor which isn't very comfortable while driving or starting on the traffic lights... :dodgy:

I have a 1973 q-code with 4-speed-manual.

So I have read a few posts like these

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-4-speed-clutch-spring-question?highlight=clutch+spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-boss-clutch-return-spring

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-clutch-pedal-assist-spring

but they all do not come to a conclusion.

What should I do now?

It seems that I perhaps also have not a second clutch pedal assist spring that mounts to the side of the pedal box (of which I heard in a thread) if there ever was one on mine. I have only the one at the release bearing and the big one behind the tach. Is the perhaps missing spring relevant for release the pedal?

My buddy and I are considering of a additional strong spring behind the tach at the moment which would assist the one which is already there. But some people are saying with a diaphragm style clutch you have to remove the big spring behind the tach "only".

So what do you think of or what have you guys done after installing a diaphragm style clutch and coming through this?

Thanks,

Tim

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

So my clutch pedal ('73 with a tremec T5) got stuck on the floor two nights ago, at a red light...panic set in and fortunately a guy stopped and pushed me off the road. I tied a piece of romex wire (he had in his truck) to the clutch pedal and drove home. (could pull the romex wire if the clutch pedal got stuck down again. I had just completed putting new bushings/felt washers etc. in both ends of my z bar so I figured I should take a good look for anything obvious. While observing and thinking, I figured that the z bar arm, closest to the frame, which has the clutch rod cottered pinned to it could use some assistance being pulled down. This was while I was under the car (up on jackstands) and the clutch pedal was in the "stuck down" position against the floor. When the pedal is stuck down to the floor this z bar arm is in it's "up" position. That was when I noticed the unused hole in the arm (just above the hole that the clutch rod (which passes through the floor) attaches to and a hole in the adjacent frame that seemed too coincidental. I searched through my shop's spring collection and found an appropriate one in both length and gauge. (luckily I had a few that could work) Drove the car and the problem is gone. Then I was reading the forum about this yesterday and copy/pasted someone's pic of the diagram above. Pretty funny how I came upon this diagram after figuring it out. I added some red text and circles for clarification Why has no one above referred to this "pull" spring, in the diagram, above? Everyone seems to be referring to the large diameter, heavy gauge, over the center, push? spring located behind the tach. I'm thinking, both are needed? Why not?

Hi EBSTANG,

that is the spring I referred to im my postings and Jeff has mentioned above. It is very important to bring that pedal back, too.

I first bought this spring from Don

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=3123

but it seemed to be to weak to move anything. So I ended up using an old brake caliper spring which is much stronger and it works perfekt

It makes a huge difference with or without!

Cheers,

Tim