popularity of 4-door cars in Australia/Europe

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1971 Boss 351
1971 Mustang Sportsroof
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Just curious - why so many 4-doors collected, restored and enjoyed in non-USA locations? In another thread from Australia definitely saw some 2-door cars too but 4 doors are much more collected and restored/modified in Australia.

I have noticed similar trends in Europe. Is it the saloon (sp?) classes of racing where they are all 4-door cars? Or historically have there been numerous 'muscle' factory offering in the 4-door body style????

It is so different from what I have seen in the US. 4-doors are just not as popular here - not even close.

Ray

 
They had good looking 4 door cars. That's why!

I think there is a certain practicality to a 4 door car for families. The Aussies embrased it. They also had really cool 'ranchero' type cars. It's hard to figure out why one group of folks liked one thing and another liked something different.

 
Australia until very recently ( i would say last 25-30 years)has been an agrarian and practical society. In comparison to post war USA the average Aussie family was nowhere near as affluent. Lots of family's had 1 car only and it had to do all jobs and 4 doors are most practical. It needed to do the shopping, take kids to school, tow trailers caravans, burn down big miles on crap roads and also make you grin when you stoked it up a bit. We invented Utes for much the same reason. Traditionally things that we see as essential now like AC power steer, auto trans where seen as frivolous extra expense. Autos where also seen as a slow option. I guess this accounts in some way to all the bare bones no option local muscle.

American cars used to make us think everyone in the states was a flash bugger with money to burn. big flashy cars with power windows,AC, auto boxes 400+ cubes. But you would have one in a shot if you could afford it.

My dad had a XA GT when it was new we lived in far north QLD,north of Cairns this was still frontier country in the mid 70s. It towed a caravan from work camp to work camp done a lot of high speed distance mile and ran us to school most days. It also got street raced. It was our only car for along time.

The 4 door thing is just Australians making do.

 
I think it is because of completely different starting points. After the war Europe has been struggling for decades. We literally had to start from the beginning.

Covering basic needs was priority and as I have posted here on numerous occasions nothing car related was ever cheap.

That is why we never really developed a car culture like the Americans did. Young people buying muscle cars in the sixties? No way!

We did not even have muscle cars, no cruise ins, no drive ins, no car shows and no drag racing.

Cars were something that a young family struggled to afford and when they could they chose based upon price more than on looks or performance.

Even a doctor who could afford a Mercedes would buy a four door sedan.

And besides that, the offer was limited.

There simply were hardly any two doors. Mercedes and BMW built mostly sedans. Except for BMW, there were hardly any makers that built two varieties of one car.

Take Torinos, Satellites and the like: they came in both two and four doors versions. Not here they didn't.

You had the normal line of sedans and if you were lucky they offered one coupe that was a two door car.

But because it was hard to afford cars in the first place, those coupes were usually toys for the very rich who could afford two cars and those were very far and in between.

Those cars were the famous Jaguar E-Types and XJS,, the Mercedes Gullwing and the like.

I personally don't remember anybody we knew when I was a kid in the early 70ies who had a two door car.

It was four doors or exorbitantly priced sports cars. There simply were no other cars available.

So many classic European cars are four doors because there are no two door versions of them.

Today there is more choice. Many makers offer both versions on the same model. I've had a two door VW Golf that I'm gonna trade in Monday for a four door one because of practicality reasons. Space. There is none here. Parking spaces are so small that even with our tiny cars you will have no more than 15 inches in between two parked cars. Good luck opening a long door on a two door car and getting in or out of your car!

 
Absolutely agree 100% with what Luke had said in his post, that Australia back in post war times were mostly 1 car families that did everything like was said. I even remember carpenters and plumbers and so forth, hooking up a trailer with all their work gear as that was the only car they had (just like the guy that owned the only complianced Phase 4 back in the early 80s) Ford did try the 2 door in the mid 60s with the XM, XP and cortinas but they proved not to be a popular option. In 65 Bill Bourke came up with the idea of putting Mustangs in every Ford dealer in the country, not to sell Mustangs, but to get people into the dealerships as the 289 was now in the XR range, the same drivetrain as in the Mustang. A performance version was also being developed for the XR for the police. The police were so impressed with these cars they had to have them, so Ford sold these 4 barrel 4 speed cars to the police for pursuit duties. He thought that this would be a winner, although the top brass in Detroit thought this was crazy to have high performance car in a 4 door body and it would not sell, but Bill Bourke knew what the market wanted in Australia and was a home grown high performance car (as the cost of an American performance car plus importing and RHD conversion was way beyond most people in Australia)and in 67 the 4 door Falcon GT was born. In 68 Holden responded with the 2 door Monaro, the car was an instant hit, but it's main market was the youth and older people with children that had grown up and wanted to recapture their youth. By the end of the first design of the Monaro in 71 with the HG it was basically over. In 69 Ford Australia competitions boss Al Turner imported a 2 door falcon as his personal car and made it into an XT/XW GT look. It was shown at the Melbourne motor show to rave reviews, instead of importing 2 door bodies to Australia, the decision was made to make a 2 door version in coming Australian designed XA series. As stated earlier by the time the 2 door XA came along in 72, Australia's love with the 2 door was just about over. I personally think by that time the youth market were all starting to settle down, getting married and having families. And so the older market were also having to change their ways too as getting grand kids in and of 2 door cars is a real hassle. In 69 Chrysler had its finger on the pulse by introducing the Pacer. The VF model were all 4 doors and sold like hot cakes. They were a cheap sporty car that a lot of younger people could really afford. Even when a 2 door version was available in VG range, the 4 door still outsold the 2 door by plenty. In 71 they released the Charger, everyone went crazy for them, but they still made the 4 door Pacer which was still a very popular car, but within a couple of years they were in same situation as Ford and Holden with the 2 door market. By the mid 70s all 3 manufacturers were struggling to sell their 2 doors. Holden made the HX LE with the last 580 2 doors they had left. Ford made the XC Cobras with their last 400 2 door shells. Chrysler were just about giving the CL Chargers away and optioning them up to the hilt just to get rid of their 2 door shells. The big 3 continued to sell 4 door cars in droves, even Chrysler were still selling well and make profits in Australia, but only sold out to Mitsubishi because the parent company in the US was in big trouble. Holden were still making 4 door performance cars in the 70s with Monaro GTS, HZ GTS, SL/R, SL/R 5000, A9X. Even with the A9X they made 305 4 doors compared to 100 2 door hatchbacks and could hardly even sell them. As we know Ford were the king of performance cars in Australia and they were all 4 door cars. The phase 1,2,3 and even the phase 4 was to be a 4 door but the politicians spoilt everything here as well, like they did in the US but in different ways though. So Ford after building these great homologation specials were making mere shadows of the cars we once knew, with the 4V engine gone by early 74 and even the top loader gone. The once great GT was nothing more than a family car with nice trim and GT 351 decals and Ford sold more of the XB GT's to themselves than they did to the public and dropped the GT name after the XB. So here in Australia the 4 door is a car all about convenience as has been said before, drive dad to work, drop kids at school, shopping, Saturday morning sport, take crap to the dump, old mans and his mates taxi on Friday nights, hook up a van and go on holiday. There you are the 4 door car was a bit of everything here in Australia, work vehicle, shopping trolley, taxi, off-roader (the roads here when I was a kid were like goat tracks and they were the bitumen ones) dump truck, holiday tourer and some were part time race cars. One car for all situations.

 
As stated earlier by the time the 2 door XA came along in 72, Australia's love with the 2 door was just about over.
I was looking at the stats the other day for the XA-XC series Falcon. From 1972 to 1979 Ford Australia sold over 500,000 of them in their various configurations. Of that only approx 20,000 were coupes, about 4% of the total, so that equates to only 4 out of every 100 Falcon buyers who thought the coupes were a good option to have.

 
Good answers guys

I run an old 76 Grand Torino 4dr here in NZ, and its an awesome car to go cruising with all your mates! can't beat a Bench :)

Nz was even less affluent than Australia and nearly all of the big cars were four doors, wagons and utes (pick ups) to haul kids and farm stuff, then if there was a second car it would be some vastly underpowered English (Pomgolian :) car like a Marina or Austin 1100 for the family to get around in. There are loads of American cars here by percentage of population and we love them, 2dr or 4dr or Wagon all are equally loved and sought after, and all of the restorable cars from the 40's to the 80's get restored due to the high cost of importing and complying one.

The other thing to remember is with a population of just 4 million, and being so geographicly isolated there just isn't the choice of old cars you have in America. The fact that all of NZ is basicly "rust belt" doesn't help much either :)

There is the fact that most of the desirable cars here, were four doors! GT Falcons were all four doors until the awesome XA coupe in 72, and I'm pretty sure there were no sporty coupes untill the Hk Monaro coupe in 68 (correct me if I'm wrong!)

The worst thing about being here is the price of parts, you would never believe the massive cost of them! I tell you what though Nz restorers and buisnesses are a hardy lot, they think nothing of making a part for a car if they cant find it, or they go to incredible lengths to get it for you.

 
Dang - you guys rock! Big thanks to all for the postings! Very clear and helpful historical info!

I have to admit, I have seen some great looking cars from outside the US. Europe and Aus., NZ...

And yes - some are 4-doors. And they are true performance cars! Crazy - and cool.

I would love to have a 1971 Galaxie 500 4 door with a factory 4-speed! 351 C 4-v or 429 Police Interceptor would be fine.

Ray

 
Hi Ray

1971 Galaxie 500 429 four speed? Paint it Brown and you'd have a genuine "Gator McKlusky" special from White Lightning :) always wanted a shine running special too :)

 
Me too, has to be one of the greatest films ever, still got the original movie poster on my wall.

"only two things I'm scared of, women and the Police" :)


 
Thanks for looking up the figures and doing the math on the sales figures for the XA-XC series of cars FASTBACK 72. As indicated a 1 in 25 ratio of sedans to coupes sold shows how much the 4 door family car was needed in Australia in those times. This is one of the obvious reasons why hardtops are in big demand and command ridiculous prices these days (one of the main reasons why I ended up with my Mustang) One of the most popular 4 door cars in those days was the station wagon. The things you'd see a wagon used for in those days was amazing. I remember one time when I was very young, we had to go town with my Grandfather. I don't know what for or why, but I do remember a couple of potty calves stuffed in the back and a whole heap of stuff tied down to the roof for the trip home (wish I had a picture of that day) but those pretty common sights in country areas in those days. Also as stated by CHARLIE SAFARI the amount of American cars in New Zealand is amazing. For such a small country, their love for American classics is amazing. My old boss, (that I did my time and worked for him until he returned home) his father had a great collection of US classics, Pontiacs, Chevs and few other different makes as well. He'd shown me pics of them and cars at car shows and so forth and heaps of American muscle in them. You are right in saying that you kiwis are are a very inventive lot, as learning my trade under him made in to a very decent tradesman. If we couldn't find something we'd make it, or have stuff made over there, like the time with my 308 stroker. Couldn't find a piston he really liked for the application, so he sent the drawings and what specs he wanted to somebody over there and about 3 weeks later, landed on our door step and exactly as ordered. He was a bit of a dick, but a fantastic tradesman and I was so glad to have done my trade under him, as later on when I worked for other people, after he left, I would work there and the guys there could not believe the stuff I was doing. It would just blow their minds and I would get asked where did learn this or that from and just tell them, from a guy I learnt the basics from and common sense prevailed from there. I remember going to college and most of the guys there were basically still pushing a broom in their first year. I was boring and honing blocks, grinding cranks, cylinder head machine work and most of what went on in a engine shop. His reasoning for it was, I had to learn it sometime, so may as well be now instead of cleaning stuff all day or pushing a broom. So yes it's your way, that, if you can't buy one, or if it is to expensive, then make it yourself and the satisfaction in doing it yourself is something you will be proud of and this still holds for me to this day.

 
Absolutely, one thing I've learned from the Kiwi's, everybody has to be able to do everything! My boss can and will do everyjob in the company, from driving trucks to draining cars, and he's worth millions and 64 years old!

He made me the boss of one of the wrecking yards once he realized I was the same!!!!

It's funny how much Ozzies and Kiwi's love American cars eh? I guess it's partly because they were so unobtainable to us, and they suit our laid back lifestyle, big thumping lazy V8 and enough room for all your mates.

 
its an awesome car to go cruising with all your mates! can't beat a Bench :)

Funny story about a bench seat 64 4drHT Galaxie. I was about 20-21 and as a non drinker at the time,I was the driver of 5 mates. 3 across the front and back. Anyways the plan was to go boozing in a town about 90min away. We get there and I over shoot the night club by 25 yards slam it into reverse on a dead empty street and do a j turn right in front of the club door. (Pure arse +.01% skill). Out jumps 6 very large bikers, long hair,beards, tattoos the full bit. I am the smallest 1 in this mix at 6ft 1 and 94kg of thug build, all arms and chest. You should of seen the 1 bouncers face as he looks at 6 big pricks all walking towards him everyone walking with a boxers roll or jailhouse strut. He was very polite I have too say, he was less polite about 3 hours later when he busted me with his girlfriend Lol.

I used to think I was ok as a young bloke. I was hard but ok in don't frig with me and I won't bother you kind of way. The more I think back it stands to reason that I may have on occasion been a bastard

 
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...and you'd have a genuine "Gator McKlusky" special from White Lightning :)
Yeah buddy!

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Not to throw this thread off the track, but am I the only one to have IMMEDIATELY recognized that California shooting location from The Mechanic before even considering the Custom 500?

v37ea1.286.jpg


-Kurt

 
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The 4 door muscle cars not only look great but perform well.

I would love to have a xa-xb gt 4 door sedan in my collection but my first love is the xb gt coupe is my first love.. I've posted a pic of mine. The reason why I decided to purchase a 73 mach 1 is because of the striking similarities the cars share. I think they are beautiful in their own right and have the edge over any 4 door muscle car..just my opinion!!!

image.jpg

 
The 4 door muscle cars not only look great but perform well.

I would love to have a xa-xb gt 4 door sedan in my collection but my first love is the xb gt coupe is my first love.. I've posted a pic of mine. The reason why I decided to purchase a 73 mach 1 is because of the striking similarities the cars share. I think they are beautiful in their own right and have the edge over any 4 door muscle car..just my opinion!!!

I'm hearin' ya brother, here's a pic of my XB coupe (Fairmont with GT paint scheme). I sold it 15 years ago for $2200, do you think I did the right thing? :dodgy:

4YgWgVc.jpg


 
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