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cudak888: 1972 Q-code - cam failure pictures


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Well that rot will not be a problem what with all the smashing you'll have to do for the Eleanor look. I wonder how you're gonna replicate the phone pole damage on the left front fender.

Oh, wait! You mean that other, "before" Eleanor!

:)

 

Hahaha ;)

 

Yea, beauty Eleanor. All things considered though, it'd be easier to make the junker out of this one :P

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

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Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Sorry for the late post guys, but I had a pretty busy Mother's Day. The one picture I took of the interior does not do it justice. This was after many parts had already been removed, and I didn't get a shot of the rear seats. It was a landfill back there. Here's the passenger side with plenty of goodies:

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And here you can kind of see some more crap in the back, as well as the thumb of approval from Captain Kurt himself...

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This car is going to make a killer Eleanor replica. Between the yellow paint, the 351, and Kurt's Halicki vibe, it's going to be pretty legit. Who knows, maybe a Gone in 60 Seconds remake is in order :banana:

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Seeing as the car is in a very restricted area to work in right now - not to mention that both front tires are now flat - I figured that I might as well get the engine buttoned up enough to safely move it under her own power. Helps if I can work AROUND the darn thing.

 

This is how it looked under the hood when I got it - seller's picture. Spray-bombed turd:

 

2dwdisi.jpg

 

Today, I worked my way to what you see here. The radiator hoses were installed after I took the first photo. I hate those Accel 8mm lines - nobody cut them to length, and they don't take a curve well at all:

 

emuc3.jpg

 

2yz0dqp.jpg

 

Thanks to BigBlue for the radiator, shroud, and condenser. Without those bits, I'd still be trying to figure out what to do next on this pile of flaming yellow dog doo.

 

So far, this thing has been the ultimate poster child for Hack the Hick's new DIY book: "101 Ways to Screw Up Your 351C." Amongst his contributions under the hood were:

 

Dizzy cap stick-on numbers to show the firing order (see the "as-found" engine picture above). That's fine, but the numbers were marked 157.5 degrees off from where they belong. Even if I flipped the cap 180 degrees, the plugs would still be off by one terminal. Anyone want to be that the dizzy is one tooth off?

 

rib49v.jpg

 

A Stant thermostat for a Windsor in the block, while a brand-new Robert Shaw 180 had been relegated to the car's otherwise worthless parts pile. It's no wonder the previous owner was hell bent and determined that it needed a three-core radiator instead of a factory original two-core - it probably overheated every 15 minutes.

 

Can't forget to make those holes in the shock towers to grease the front suspension.

 

3 ill-suited washers to space the PS pump from the cylinder head, because A/C compressors are so not cool. Sorry, no picture.

 

Three carb spacers - two thick, one thin. I'll get a picture of that when I pull the 4150; a double-pumper that I might convert to vacuum secondaries if possible.

 

Speaking of which, the choke plate was yanked out along with the choke and linkage. Nothing was plugged during this "conversion."

 

EDIT: 4150, LIST 6708-1

 

29w1o4z.jpg

 

But why stop there? Why not do a bit if DIY and whack the factory fuel line short - and fail to flare the end of the line. Of all the stupid things done under this hood, this little bit of "ingenuity" really gets my dander up.

 

It'll be a bit longer before I can fire it up (the trans cooler lines appear to lead nowhere, for starters, and the tops of the spark plugs are rusted), but provided they didn't put rings in for a 351W, I should be able to get it hobbling around.

 

BigBlue has a set of tires and wheels for me, but we're up against a completely ancient 4-prong wheel lock before those wheels find their way onto this car.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Closed up and pressurized the cooling system today. Checked out perfectly.

 

With that, I decided to nose around the carb a bit. This is what was sitting there, missing choke and all.

 

2w3w85f.jpg

 

I'm still trying to figure out why hack mechanics have a fascination for multiple carb gaskets. Doesn't matter now, as it's sitting on a new single gasket now, and I put a spare manual choke unit on it to plug the vacuum leaks.

 

10nyn1s.jpg

 

The 6708-1 Holley carb works, but I found one of the primary nozzles were not squirting. Replaced with a spare, only to realize that the threads for the nozzle are more or less stripped in the main body. Anyone have a spare Holley 650 main body?

 

Fun stuff. I was able to get the nozzle from the secondaries (with pre-compressed gaskets) to screw into the primary bore just barely, while the new nozzle went to replace the now-missing secondaries. It is good enough for testing, but that main body will get swapped before I start moving this thing back and forth regularly.

 

I wired up the rest of the previous owner's mess under the hood to see if it'd crank over after a prime of the oil system and a spin by hand. Cranked no problem, so I decided to get ambitious and run a bit of fuel in it.

 

Crank! Vroom! Boom - or backfire, if you wish. Now I'm convinced the PO screwed with the rotor/dizzy shaft location and put it anywhere but where it belongs. Next job is to get the 351 to TDC and put things where they belong. Maybe some earmuffs too, as the RH exhaust terminates under the passenger's seat. With the shot floorpan, starting this car is akin to sitting next with your head buried in Huey Lewis' amplifier while getting gassed.

 

On another note, BigBlue came by today to swap hoods. Blue gets my NACA hood, and I get Blue's standard hood, which will receive the Halicki hood-pin treatment - but not anytime soon, given the rest of the bodywork necessitated on this thing:

 

2l8cchz.jpg

 

As an ex-NY car (and seeing as Eleanor wears an NY RMH-100 tag at the end of the film), I figured that my lone 97-HPG tag would give the front end a bit of character for now.

 

As always - more to come.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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"I should have read my horoscope this morning..."

 

First off, the rotor was off 157.5 degrees on the compression stroke. Explains the backfiring:

 

s66kh1.jpg

 

Then I realized someone had BS'ed the timing mark with some joke aftermarket part. Just like the thermostat, the proper part was in the parts bin pile:

 

fvepfr.jpg

 

Installed the original. Timing difference between the two? A whopping 20 degrees. No wonder they had the plugs off by 180 and one terminal:

 

2a6m8sy.jpg

 

However, my lapse of judgement in checking the dizzy/rotor location had some unfortunate results due to the backfire:

 

281getv.jpg

 

mm31ib.jpg

 

sqjszs.jpg

 

Oh well. More amusement.

 

This Eleanor gal is a real PITA. ;)

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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I don't think the timing did that. Pretty sure you have some other issues as well.

2rr7aiv.png

 

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.

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That usually comes from MR piston hooking up with MRS valve.

When MR piston is done, the push rod goes limp.

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Most likely misses timing chain jumped mister timing gears, kinda explains the distributor being off. Bent valves usually accompany the twisted pushrods. I would look at everything twice.

 

:s

Rick, not Rich or Dick or Richard

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Most likely misses timing chain jumped mister timing gears, kinda explains the distributor being off. Bent valves usually accompany the twisted pushrods. I would look at everything twice.

 

Timing chain appears to be new - it's not a stock unit. My bet is that it was put on the wrong key slot. We'll see.

 

-Kurt


Some other info: It has double springs on the heads. Can't see the timing marks yet, and I'm not dressed to tear into it now.

 

That said, I've got an engine stand, but no engine hoist - yet. That shall change, as I don't trust ANYTHING about Jethro the Rebuilder's motor at this point. I'm going to do a few things while it is still in the car, but if it doesn't pass a leak-down test, this engine is coming OUT. No telling what rings they put in it either.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Hack mechanics use multiple gaskets and spacers to help isolate the carburetor from manifold heat. Cooler carbs mean cooler fuel, less opportunity for heat related issues. I guess that makes me a "hack" mechanic!! :D

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Hack mechanics use multiple gaskets and spacers to help isolate the carburetor from manifold heat. Cooler carbs mean cooler fuel, less opportunity for heat related issues. I guess that makes me a "hack" mechanic!! :D

 

That's what they make spacers for ;)

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Dumb question: are you sure that the pushrod pretzels were due to your attempts to fire the motor?

 

Could it be they are the reason it was partially disassembled when you bought it?

 

BTW: neat find!

Matt

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Kurt I have a Holley 750 DP rebuilt if your interested

I have some room on the price

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-holley-750-double-pumper

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART

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Most likely misses timing chain jumped mister timing gears, kinda explains the distributor being off. Bent valves usually accompany the twisted pushrods. I would look at everything twice.

 

Timing chain appears to be new - it's not a stock unit. My bet is that it was put on the wrong key slot. We'll see.

 

-Kurt


Some other info: It has double springs on the heads. Can't see the timing marks yet, and I'm not dressed to tear into it now.

 

That said, I've got an engine stand, but no engine hoist - yet. That shall change, as I don't trust ANYTHING about Jethro the Rebuilder's motor at this point. I'm going to do a few things while it is still in the car, but if it doesn't pass a leak-down test, this engine is coming OUT. No telling what rings they put in it either.

 

-Kurt

 

I have a set of pushrods and probably a set of rocker arms you can have for free.

im 20 minutes south of you.

 

Timing didn't do that for sure, valve may have been stuck or rocker arm broke, or valve hit piston.

 

Let me know if I can help.

 

3xx-726-324six

Jorge

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1972 Mustang Convertible 351C 4V

1966 Ford Galaxie 7 litre-4speed

 

Jorge

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Dumb question: are you sure that the pushrod pretzels were due to your attempts to fire the motor?

 

Could it be they are the reason it was partially disassembled when you bought it?

 

Good point. No idea, really, though the owner claims to have run the engine previously.

 

The valves bind when trying to turn the engine over by hand, so the timing has jumped in one form or another.

 

Kurt I have a Holley 750 DP rebuilt if your interested

I have some room on the price

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-holley-750-double-pumper

 

Won't need a new carb for a while, Q. Something tells me that I'll be spending that much in gaskets :P

 

I have a set of pushrods and probably a set of rocker arms you can have for free.

im 20 minutes south of you.

 

Timing didn't do that for sure, valve may have been stuck or rocker arm broke, or valve hit piston.

 

Let me know if I can help.

 

3xx-726-324six

Jorge

 

I'll take you up on that. Will call tomorrow.

 

Rocker arms are fine. Valves hit the pistons, and they still are if you try to turn it over.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Rocker arms are fine. Valves hit the pistons, and they still are if you try to turn it over.

 

-Kurt

The pushrods are to long for the installed cam..head setup..the valve heights could be wrong..You need to start from square 1..I would pull the heads measure them to see if they have been shaved..see whats going on..It is obvious that a stock pushrod length isn't going to work..The yokel that built worked on the motor probably installed the cam with the stock length pushrods..common mistake..You can't just throw a higher lift cam in with out verifying the correct installed valve heights & the correct length pushrods so the valves don't hit the pistons

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART

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The pushrods are to long for the installed cam..

 

Going to pull one that isn't bent and measure it. Should be stock pushrods though; cam is a Comp 268H, P/N 32-221-3. Comp Cams specs 8.412" rods for it - stock length.

 

-Kurt


Rods are just shy of 214mm; my guess by squinting between the lines is around 213.6mm or 213.7mm - which is 8.409" through 8.413".

 

Close enough to 8.412" in my book. Sure isn't the slightly smaller 8.400" size.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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The pushrods are to long for the installed cam..

 

Going to pull one that isn't bent and measure it. Should be stock pushrods though; cam is a Comp 268H, P/N 32-221-3. Comp Cams specs 8.412" rods for it - stock length.

 

-Kurt


Rods are just shy of 214mm; my guess by squinting between the lines is around 213.6mm or 213.7mm - which is 8.409" through 8.413".

 

Close enough to 8.412" in my book. Sure isn't the slightly smaller 8.400" size.

 

-Kurt

Right.. but if the heads or block were milled...Or new valves installed..valve seats..etc.That changes everything..Not to mention if pistons were done..Ya just don't know with out pulling a head to see..Lots of variables that can change the length required..Who even knows if thats the cam thats in there with out profiling it ..Not only that you need to see if you got lucky & only bent a pushrod..There may be a cracked damaged piston under there too..Just trying to save you some grief..It's only a few more bolts to pull the head..

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART

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Timing marks lined up.

 

Tried pulling the lifters, and found a couple that are mushroomed/burred. This was the worst one that I could pull:

 

8xivcl.jpg

 

One or two of the other lifters won't come out by hand. More burring. Going to pull them from the bottom to prevent damage to the lifter bores.

 

Anyone want to bet that these yokels didn't bother to break in the cam, thereby burring the lifters - causing them to bind in their bores when fully extended - with the end result being Don's off-color Mother Goose story about Mr. Piston Stud, Ms. Valve, and Limpy the Pushrod?

 

Looks as if it's my opportunity to return the thing to a stock cam...provided anything has survived; preferably the lifter bores.

 

Right.. but if the heads or block were milled...Or new valves installed..valve seats..etc.That changes everything..Not to mention if pistons were done..Ya just don't know with out pulling a head to see..Lots of variables that can change the length required..Who even knows if thats the cam thats in there with out profiling it ..Not only that you need to see if you got lucky & only bent a pushrod..There may be a cracked damaged piston under there too..Just trying to save you some grief..It's only a few more bolts to pull the head..

 

Agreed. I'm this far already.

 

Just the same, I'm going to do a leak down test beforehand, just so I have some data on each valve and the rings.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Nice..Man every corner you turn you keep finding more & more..I'm thinking these guys attempted a cam swap top end rebuild that didn't have the results as expected rofl...A easy way to get the lifters out from the bottom is to get a piece of pvc pipe the diameter of the cam..cut a rectangular hole in a section..get a telescoping magnet..Insert the pipe..into the cam journals..rotate to line up the rectangular hole with the lifter bore..insert magnet..push lifter into the hole in pipe where magnet is waiting..pull out..A great stock cam is the 72 Q code cam I have the part number grind..available from rock auto..


Kurt,

Btw..I have most of a gasket set here left over from the motor I just built..

You can have if you want just pay the shipping

IMG_0251.thumb.JPG.1fbeebc3ca0da92d1702097b4d3d3084.JPG

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART

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Nice..Man every corner you turn you keep finding more & more..I'm thinking these guys attempted a cam swap top end rebuild that didn't have the results as expected rofl...A easy way to get the lifters out from the bottom is to get a piece of pvc pipe the diameter of the cam..cut a rectangular hole in a section..get a telescoping magnet..Insert the pipe..into the cam journals..rotate to line up the rectangular hole with the lifter bore..insert magnet..push lifter into the hole in pipe where magnet is waiting..pull out..A great stock cam is the 72 Q code cam I have the part number grind..available from rock auto..

 

As I said, welcome to Hack the Hick and Jethro Bodine Engine Rebuilds, Inkorporated. I should have figured they screwed up everything inside when I kept finding everything done wrong outside.

 

Incidentally, are 351W and 351C lifters the same overall length? Part searches seem to indicate they are one and the same. About the only thing that appears to have been put in right is the timing chain, which - thankfully - appears to be intact with less than 1/4" deflection.

 

I assume the PVC trick is done with the lifters retained upwards from the top, correct?

 

EDIT: Yep, I'll take you up on the gaskets! Will PM.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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