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cudak888: 1972 Q-code - cam failure pictures


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result being Don's off-color Mother Goose story about Mr. Piston Stud, Ms. Valve, and Limpy the Pushrod?

 

You considered that joke "off-color"

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I'll off the color of this thread. That thing's f*&^%$ up. Plan on pulling it and completely going though it.

 

NOW that's colorful , reminds me of forum days gone by :P

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That thing's f*&^% up. Plan on pulling it and completely going though it.

+1....But I'm trying to stay upbeat have some glimmer of hope :s

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART

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That usually comes from MR piston hooking up with MRS valve.

When MR piston is done, the push rod goes limp.

 

lollerz

 

Don reading this made my day!

Definitely a classic!

Let me check your shorts!

http://midlifeharness.com

cactus.jpg.92e5d9d8700abc0ed60c8ccb3426248e.jpg

 

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Well, I hate to disappoint you fellows, but I pulled the passenger's side head today (pictures tomorrow; too dark by the time I finished - had to pull it out with the header and half of the rotted exhaust due to stuck bolts), and cylinders #2 and #3 - which had notably bent pushrods - don't have marks. Cylinder #4 is fine too.

 

Cylinder #1 has three small nicks - but in the center of the piston. The carbon deposits in that cylinder are a bit oily. Head gasket leak?

 

Valves don't show any nicks at all - but the intake ports are clearly marked "FORD." Ugh. Stock two-piecers. More stuff to spend on...

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

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So I guess I need to understand how a backfire creates that kind of damage on 2 different cylinders.

2rr7aiv.png

 

Just cruising along minding our own business when BAM!!! The LAWS show up.

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So I guess I need to understand how a backfire creates that kind of damage on 2 different cylinders.

 

Born lucky, I guess - but I doubt it was the backfire.

 

Perhaps the original Ford valves are sticking in their stems from when the P/O replaced the springs? Binding valve guides when hot (or just binding, period)?

 

I might remove one of the springs on the troublesome valve just to see how it feels by hand. There's a shop in Hialeah that I trust for cylinder head work - Dad used them countless times for diesel cylinder heads, always top-notch - I might have them do a more thorough inspection.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Photos, as promised:

 

Passenger's side cylinder head:

 

28iak4n.jpg

 

Notice the difference in the soot texture between #1 and #2:

 

f2u1rb.jpg

 

Pistons in block:

 

24ovb4n.jpg

 

#1 at TDC - note those strange nicks in the center and the grime:

 

2qwenac.jpg

 

#2, #3, and #4:

 

jpkfnt.jpg

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Those don't look alarmingly bad. Quick check would be to flip the head over so the chambers are up and fill each chamber with lacquer thinner (or your solvent of choice) and see if it leaks past the valves. This will tell you if you have any bent ones.

 

As far as the carbon and strange marks, I would suspect worn valve guides on Cyl. 1 letting some extra oil in there. What do the valve stem seals look like? If the valve springs have been changed, the seals should have been replaced as well. Who knows where the marks came from, something could have fallen into the cylinder... At any rate they won't hurt anything.

Matt

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Hmm Mrs valve wasn't faithful so seems Mr Piston knocked her up.

 

The contact marks on cylinder #1 are not from a valve. It is physically impossible for the valves to touch the cylinder at that point unless alarmingly bent.

 

Those don't look alarmingly bad. Quick check would be to flip the head over so the chambers are up and fill each chamber with lacquer thinner (or your solvent of choice) and see if it leaks past the valves. This will tell you if you have any bent ones.

 

As far as the carbon and strange marks, I would suspect worn valve guides on Cyl. 1 letting some extra oil in there. What do the valve stem seals look like? If the valve springs have been changed, the seals should have been replaced as well. Who knows where the marks came from, something could have fallen into the cylinder... At any rate they won't hurt anything.

 

The valves are original, but my guess is that the stem seals or guides may have been replaced; thereby contributing to the bent pushrod issue.

 

Haven't done anything to the heads past what you see there. Yet.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Did the acetone test. Not a single solitary leak.

 

I'm convinced that the pushrod damage in this engine is due to improper cam break-in OR overly-stiff double-springs, OR a combination of both.

 

Started to pull the LH head today, but got slowed down by the LH header collector. Got it off, but the head will have to wait until the weekend. The very last bolt holding the header on the RH side snapped off in the head. Oh, joy.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Maybe something fell inside like a small nut or something.

 

The P/O's manhood?

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Kurt the Marks on the piston almost look as if someone has pushed on the piston with a screwdriver. Anyways looks like you may have avoid total disaster.

He has all the vices I admire and none of the virtues I despise

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FYI, a friend of mine has a Bridgeport mill. Should be able to block the head in place and gradually drill the stuck bolt out with left-hand carbide bits.

 

Kurt the Marks on the piston almost look as if someone has pushed on the piston with a screwdriver. Anyways looks like you may have avoid total disaster.

 

Good guess. At any rate, it doesn't look serious at the piston tops. I'll be really lucky if they didn't do anything to the bottom end at all.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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nxuutg.jpg

 

Got the left head off today. Unlike the right, there is some weird stuff going on here.

 

o796iv.jpg

 

See it? Cylinder #6 has a pit in the top of the piston - right where the stamped arrow marking is located. It's not from a valve, and there's no other damage on it. Detonation?

 

11gszno.jpg

 

Out comes the head - and header. Figured that it'd be less work to yank the whole thing out as one and deal with the rusted-up header bolts out of the car.

 

Much to my surprise, the header bolts on this side gave no trouble. Go figure.

 

i1egea.jpg

 

2m3mq6c.jpg

 

BUT...

 

The intake valves on #5 and #6 do not seal to the point where you can see light through the gap. The shown photo is of #6, which is much worse than #5 (which wouldn't photograph as easily), even though the photo of the acetone test suggests that #5 has a bigger gap than #6:

 

xclv9i.jpg

 

30w2tsh.jpg

 

Just to refresh everyone's memory, the one left-hand pushrod that bent was on cylinder #7, not #5 or #6. That, and the valves show no marks of having hit the cylinders (nor is that weird mark on the top of cylinder #6 shaped or lined up in such a way for the valve to have made the mark):

 

dwc8cl.jpg

 

If anything, this head has to go to the machine shop - but I'm more concerned with what has caused the valves not to seat correctly at all - and why? Not to mention that pit.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Had a chevy do that same thing, it ended up being the guides frozen to the valve stems. check to see if the valves slide easily.

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Had a chevy do that same thing, it ended up being the guides frozen to the valve stems. check to see if the valves slide easily.

 

I pulled the valve spring compressor out today to do just that - and then laughed at myself, because I realized it'll only compress the outer spring.

 

I found a C-clamp style compressor in the shed (30 years of Dad's diesel repair stuff - more tools than I know what they're for), but it is a worthless junker from Sears which is probably good for nothing but a lawnmower. It doesn't even have a proper release lever. Pulling the locking key backwards under tension is akin to playing with a land mine. I don't usually advocate getting rid of ANY tools, but stay away from this POS if you ever see one:

 

24l5wjp.jpg

 

That said, I took a break from the engine today. With the help of BigBlue, I have solved the one thing that has been bothering me since the car was delivered: You can't roll it around on flat tires.

 

The Magnum 500's on BigBlue's parts car had good tires, but they also had wheel locks with an obsolete pattern - and no removal tool. A few hours of grinding, hammering, and twisting later yielded three of the four wheel locks, which was enough to get junker Eleanor looking decent:

 

2059r7q.jpg

 

At least it isn't in a state that allows everybody to laugh at it (not to mention laugh at me once they've got their kicks laughing at the car).

 

f9mvwl.jpg

 

She rolls free and easy now; I can free myself of that concern.

 

With that, I'm putting Eleanor on hold until I can get a proper spring compressor. That gives me time this week to permanently weld the quarter on neglected Soylent Green, who's been moved into position for the weekend welding:

 

m9b0k3.jpg

"Soylent Green, meet Soylent Yellow..."

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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You can take a block of wood, and a hammer to them, if they don't bounce you know it's the guide

 

Right now, I wouldn't trust any test in that manner. The double springs are way too stiff - I'd expect the block of wood to take on the impression of the valve top and retainer before seeing the valve move.

 

Incidentally, I suspect that the double springs may have been the source of the pushrod problem. I'll bet anything that the inner springs were used during the P/O's "break-in" (where he damn well broke it in, all right).

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Oh, and did I mention that someone "upgraded" the rear brake lines with their own homespun work?

 

I didn't get a photo of it, but I'd be wrong to say it looks like a child did it. Given what the bending looks like, saying such would be an insult to the kids.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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Got a valve spring compressor on its way.

 

FYI, I'm informed that the springs that were installed in it are single springs with dampers. If they put the Comp recommended 940-16's in it, the specs as follows:

 

Seat load: 93 @ 1.900

Open load: 237 @ 1.300

Coil bind: 1.200

Rate: 241 lbs/in

 

By comparison - this PDF gives stock spring specs for the 351C 4V as follows:

 

Pressure:

85-95 @ 1.820

271-199 @ 1.320

 

Wear limit:

79 @ 1.820

244 @ 1.320

 

Free length (approx):

2.05

 

Spring assembled height, pad to retainer:

1-13/16" to 1-27/32"

 

No other useful info.

 

At any rate, the dampers shouldn't have been in there for break-in. I'm not going performance-nuts on this build, and I don't want to take the heads off to put dampers back in. Single springs at stock specs it shall be.

 

-Kurt

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How to buy a '71-73 Mustang:

Rule #1: Assume all classic car sellers are guilty until proven innocent.

Rule #2: No classic car dealer is ever innocent; thus, they are all guilty.

Rule #3: Buy from trustworthy people: Fellow forum members. Visit 7173Mustang's For Sale forum.

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