Question for those who have used Alex's Parts 4V valves

The shop that is working on my '72 open chamber 4V heads say that my Alex's Parts exhaust valves sit a few thousandths lower in the seats than spec (speaking of which, what is spec?). Intake are within spec.

Fellow from the shop put his dial caliper on the head and the end of the original valve, then the Alex valve. The Alex valve was shorter by about .030 or so. The Alex valve claims to be 5.030” overall.

Anyone else experienced this issue? Do I have the wrong valves, or do the seats need to be machined? Anyone have the original specs?

-Kurt

I did some research tonight. Near as I can figure it, the stock OAL for the Cleveland 4V valves are 5.21” OAL for the intake, 5.048” OAL for exhaust.

Alex lists OAL as 5.030” for exhaust.

Something is wrong here, but I need much more accurate data. One thing that did not go unnoticed was the thinner taper on the new exhaust valve vs. the original:



That's accurately reflected on Alex's website:



Strangely enough though, the 2V valves seem to be cut deeper.



Ferrera lists 5.060” as the length for both 2V and 4V exhaust valves, which is exactly the .030 I'm missing.

Anyone here have an original shop book that can confirm the exhaust valve OAL for a '72 4V? Q-code, not R.

-Kurt

According to my documents, all Cleveland inlet valves have an overall length of 5.235in and the exhaust valves are 5.050in in length, with a stem diameter of 0.341in

According to "The Essential Source Book - Ford Cleveland 335-Series V8 Engine 1970 to 1982"

According to my documents, all Cleveland inlet valves have an overall length of 5.235in and the exhaust valves are 5.050in in length, with a stem diameter of 0.341in

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Not that I doubt it, but if the intake spec is 5.235" for both 2V and 4V, why would Ferrea make their 4V inlet valves at 5.300" and the 2V's at 5.275"?

Just want to make sure that there are no spec. errors from that source, given the importance of getting the valvetrain perfect.

That said, if the exhaust valve spec is 5.050", it would seem as if the Alex 5.060" valves would be a better choice over the 5.030" that he specs for 4V, no?

-Kurt

With the non-adjustable valvetrain in these engines .030" would make a huge difference in lifter preload and spring installed height. I've never heard of Alex parts, are they a wholesaler or discount parts provider? Decent valves are not that expensive, I like Manley for most applications. Engine Pro does have some nice options for less expensive good quality parts too.

With the non-adjustable valvetrain in these engines .030" would make a huge difference in lifter preload and spring installed height. I've never heard of Alex parts, are they a wholesaler or discount parts provider? Decent valves are not that expensive, I like Manley for most applications. Engine Pro does have some nice options for less expensive good quality parts too.

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Indeed - though my concern at this point is not machining the material off the head if it's not necessary.

Alex's Parts is a wholesaler who has various companies manufacture his valves, depending on supply:

http://www.alexsparts.com/stainless-steel-valves-ford-351-cleveland-2-19-1-71/

Do a search on the forum and online - everybody has reported good things about them in regards to Clevelands. One of our forum members has used them multiple times in his builds.

-Kurt

Call them up and tell them your problem and I suspect they'll refund or find you the right part.

Your valve geometry and preload will be off if you use them and cutting the seats that much is probably a bad idea

Call them up and tell them your problem and I suspect they'll refund or find you the right part.

Your valve geometry and preload will be off if you use them and cutting the seats that much is probably a bad idea

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I have no question that he'll put together the right valves for me; Alex helped me out extensively to put together a package of retainers without the locks (as I had already bought the locks).

Now all I have to do is make sure I can call the damn shop in time.

-Kurt

Do a search on the Ferrea site for "F6139" and I think you will understand. They make one valve that can be used in several engines with changes made to the rest of the valve train. Chuck

Do a search on the Ferrea site for "F6139" and I think you will understand. They make one valve that can be used in several engines with changes made to the rest of the valve train. Chuck

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Makes sense - but it leaves a whole lot of questions unanswered regarding the Alex valves.

If 5.050" is the proper height, what should I be doing about the 5.030" Alex valves? Obviously, I'll be asking for his advice on Monday, but I'd like to be armed with some suggestions so as not to fall into any other pitfalls.

-Kurt

I'm not exactly sure I understand the exact nature of the problem but, if you end up with too much pre-load shims are available to raise the rocker arm (ford racing or about any cam company). If you don't have enough pre-load, longer pushrods/custom length pushrods can be purchased (cam companies or companies such as Manton, Trend, Smith Brothers etc.). Either way proper pushrod length should be checked http://mantonpushrods.com/pushrod-info/determine-length/ An alternative is to convert to adjustable valve train. If you do this be sure the machine shop has experience with the process. Good luck. Chuck

I'm not exactly sure I understand the exact nature of the problem but, if you end up with too much pre-load shims are available to raise the rocker arm (ford racing or about any cam company). If you don't have enough pre-load, longer pushrods/custom length pushrods can be purchased (cam companies or companies such as Manton, Trend, Smith Brothers etc.). Either way proper pushrod length should be checked http://mantonpushrods.com/pushrod-info/determine-length/ An alternative is to convert to adjustable valve train. If you do this be sure the machine shop has experience with the process. Good luck. Chuck

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Rather complex solutions to a problem that should be a non-problem with the correct valve stem lengths, don't you think? It's supposed to remain a stock Q-code with a non-adjustable valvetrain.

-Kurt

Agreed, it is complex because the valves are not an exact match to OEM. However, other things such as decking the block, milling the heads, valve seat replacement, or even a significantly different head gasket thickness can create the need for different length pushrods. None of this is as straight forward as vendors, of all kinds, make it sound. That is why we hear of so many failed or under performing builds. You might try searching for old stock on part numbers V1173 and V 1174 (Melling) They are single groove stems. The lengths I don't know about. Let us know what you end up doing. Chuck

Some other possible options:

You may be able to use a lash cap to get the shorter valves closer to the stock dimension.

You could convert to adjustable rockers using the crane conversion kit.

You could use a bolt down adjustable rocker arm.

IMO you need to measure for correct pushrod length no matter what for the reasons Chuck stated.

Or I could throw the Alex valves on eBay and get the stock V1173 and V1174 Melling valves instead, which - if a stock replacement as mentioned earlier - will eliminate the need to do costly valvetrain modifications which may cause more problems.

All I want is a simple way out of the original 4-groove, two-piece valves. I wouldn't be doing the heads at all if it weren't for this.

-Kurt

Or I could throw the Alex valves on eBay and get the stock V1173 and V1174 Melling valves instead, which - if a stock replacement as mentioned earlier - will eliminate the need to do costly valvetrain modifications which may cause more problems.

All I want is a simple way out of the original 4-groove, two-piece valves. I wouldn't be doing the heads at all if it weren't for this.

-Kurt

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Hello Kurt, check your pm

there are these keepers to add spring installed height

https://www.lunatipower.com/ProductGroup.aspx?id=204&cid=27

Also those valves being thinner seats may sink deeper into the head when installed as well as different retainers and locks may net you the correct installed height.

Call Alex parts they will steer you in the right direction

I have used those valves and they worked very well I n a mild race car

best of luck

Alex says that the factory tolerances allow the valvetrain and springs to be run as-is. I believe him more than the shop.

At any rate, I'm not that trustworthy of the shop's ability to get it right. Told them to seat the valve where it is and not take any undue material off the head other than what's necessary for the three-angle job. I'll do some measuring when it gets back here.

-Kurt

Alex says that the factory tolerances allow the valvetrain and springs to be run as-is. I believe him more than the shop.

At any rate, I'm not that trustworthy of the shop's ability to get it right. Told them to seat the valve where it is and not take any undue material off the head other than what's necessary for the three-angle job. I'll do some measuring when it gets back here.

-Kurt

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Let us know what you end up finding and doing. Chuck

Hi, I am also putting a coyote in a 1971 stang. I bought a canton front sump oil pan, but now the exhaust won't clear the steering box. It looks like you put a mustang 11 suspension in your vehicle. I only see cross members for 65 to 70 mustangs. What did you use? Thanks Mike