351C A/C upgrade to R134 (need help)

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Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
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Location
Los Angeles
My Car
1973 mustang
Convertible
351C 4V engine
Car 1973 351C 4V Convert w/ Factory A/C

Having problems w/ A/C and want to upgrade to R134. Looking at Classic Auto Air kit CAA6-124 (after talking w/ CAA).

1) Does any one have experience w/ this one?

2) What was the experience?

3)Was the kit complete? Did you have to make your own plates/adapters to install the compressor??

Rush

 
Are you wanting to retain stock appearance? If so, you should tell them that. If not I suppose a complete system designed for 134a should work better than an R12 system retrofitted with a higher capacity condenser. and changed to 134a I have tried the retrofit from r12 to 134a on three different vehicles. I was never happy with the cooling, 52 degree air at the vent, fan on high, monster fan on the condenser. Went back (a lot of work) to EXPENSIVE r12, same test set up, 39 degree air. To answer your question directly, I've not used one of their complete systems. I have used many of their OEM style parts with success. Good luck on the project.

As a side note, it is my opinion that the refrigerant replacement issue was concocted by a greedy industry and an ignorant government and imposed by a far too powerful agency. Sorry, I just had to say it.

Chuck

 
R134 will not cool as well as R12 as c9zx stated you get around 52 degree output from the system at the vent with the system on high. It will cool but not like R12.

now there isn't much to a R12 conversion. if your system is working now:

the condenser should be changed. New after market condensers are rated for R134 they are suppose to have denser veins to provide more surface area for heat exhange. you must change the Dryer that is on the side of the condenser, again these reproduction units are designed for R134. the compressor must be drained of mineral oil and replaced with R134 compatible oils, the York compressor is suppose to take 10 ounces of oil, but you want the compressor drained and see exactly how much oil comes out, there will be some left over oil in the system and you may need to flush it or go through a 2 step fill and vacuum process. the compressor gets new fittings for R134. R134 has a different expansion rate then R12 so they have to underfill the system because R134 expands more when it heats up, if you put the same pounds of 134 in a R12 system the compressor will lock up after a while.

the evaporator you don't have to replace and the lines you don't have to replace, if the expansion valve was working then leave it alone. when they test the system the big thing is making sure your evaporator freeze sensor is working to prevent the evaporator from icing up and locking up the compressor.

thats about it, they vacuum it for about 30-60 minutes to get as much out as possible then leave a gauge on the system to see if it is leaking, if not, new oil goes into the maintance line to the compressor from the mainfold, start the car, turn the system on and start filling it with R134 until it starts cooling then check pressures.

you can still get R12 if you really want and you can have the condensers fixed the dyer you can make due with the 134 versions they say it works.

but you didn't say the problem you are having.

any part of the system you can still get, the factory system is usually better then a retrofit.

 
Anyone here tried refrigerant alternatives like envirosafe?

 
I just (two weeks ago) completed the Classic Air conversion kit (new Sanden compressor, hoses, condenser) and am very happy with the outcome. I had the system completely flushed, evacuated, and charged with 134a at an A/C shop. It may not be quite as cold as the original York compressor with r12, but is keeping the car very cool even with the 100+ degree weather we have been having here in the DFW area. The folks at Classic Air were also very helpful and great to deal with. - just my experience.

Ron

 
I just (two weeks ago) completed the Classic Air conversion kit (new Sanden compressor, hoses, condenser) and am very happy with the outcome. I had the system completely flushed, evacuated, and charged with 134a at an A/C shop. It may not be quite as cold as the original York compressor with r12, but is keeping the car very cool even with the 100+ degree weather we have been having here in the DFW area. The folks at Classic Air were also very helpful and great to deal with. - just my experience.

Ron
Hey Ron, I'm assuming you had A/C before the Classic Auto Air install? If not (and it was a non-A/C car), how did you handle the idler pulley/belt set-up? My complete CAA replacement kit (mine was non-A/C) did not come with an idler pulley, belt specs, or anything for that portion of the install - everything else was absolutely perfect (as you said with your experience). I was advised to run the belt off the water pump/crank/power steering circuit and use the "string method" to figure out which belt fits.

As 72HCODE mentioned, converting to R134A from R12 is doable without major component change - you just need to ensure ALL of the R12 and compressor oil is purged and replace the dryer, expansion valve, and orfice tube (if equipped). The blending of R12 and old oil with the R134A and PAG oil will create a sludge that will lock up the compressor and ruin the rest of the system as well (guys I know in the biz call it "Black Death"). Once the system is purged of R12 and oil, running a system flush will be very helpful in preventing any kind of bad stuff. Changing out the fittings, as Dan suggested, is important because the R12 are 'screw-on' fittings, and the R134A are 'snap-on' fittings (like pneumatic tools).

Running the car during the charging process isn't always necessary - it depends on the A/C recharge/recovery system. My CAA system, even though it's not currently operational, is fully charged and ready to go for when I get the belt situation taken care of and finish wiring up the control unit.

Ralph - I haven't heard anything good or bad about Envirosafe stuff. I'm willing to bet that since it's not being touted as a Federally mandated replacement for R134A, it most likely doesn't work as well. (just a hunch)

 
but you didn't say the problem you are having.

any part of the system you can still get, the factory system is usually better then a retrofit.

72HCODE,

when I turn on the A/C, the car becomes very sluggish. Also the car starts over-heating (normally does not go over 190-195F even in very hot weather)

IT goes over 210F...but I turn-off A/C right away....hardly use it even in hot weather.

Also, the car idles rough, lots of vibration vs shaking.

Rush

 
I just (two weeks ago) completed the Classic Air conversion kit (new Sanden compressor, hoses, condenser) and am very happy with the outcome. I had the system completely flushed, evacuated, and charged with 134a at an A/C shop. It may not be quite as cold as the original York compressor with r12, but is keeping the car very cool even with the 100+ degree weather we have been having here in the DFW area. The folks at Classic Air were also very helpful and great to deal with. - just my experience.

Ron
Hey Ron, I'm assuming you had A/C before the Classic Auto Air install? If not (and it was a non-A/C car), how did you handle the idler pulley/belt set-up? My complete CAA replacement kit (mine was non-A/C) did not come with an idler pulley, belt specs, or anything for that portion of the install - everything else was absolutely perfect (as you said with your experience). I was advised to run the belt off the water pump/crank/power steering circuit and use the "string method" to figure out which belt fits.

As 72HCODE mentioned, converting to R134A from R12 is doable without major component change - you just need to ensure ALL of the R12 and compressor oil is purged and replace the dryer, expansion valve, and orfice tube (if equipped). The blending of R12 and old oil with the R134A and PAG oil will create a sludge that will lock up the compressor and ruin the rest of the system as well (guys I know in the biz call it "Black Death"). Once the system is purged of R12 and oil, running a system flush will be very helpful in preventing any kind of bad stuff. Changing out the fittings, as Dan suggested, is important because the R12 are 'screw-on' fittings, and the R134A are 'snap-on' fittings (like pneumatic tools).

Running the car during the charging process isn't always necessary - it depends on the A/C recharge/recovery system. My CAA system, even though it's not currently operational, is fully charged and ready to go for when I get the belt situation taken care of and finish wiring up the control unit.

Ralph - I haven't heard anything good or bad about Envirosafe stuff. I'm willing to bet that since it's not being touted as a Federally mandated replacement for R134A, it most likely doesn't work as well. (just a hunch)
Yes, mine was an original a/c equipped car, so it was a pretty straight forward install.

 
when I turn on the A/C, the car becomes very sluggish. Also the car starts over-heating (normally does not go over 190-195F even in very hot weather)

IT goes over 210F...but I turn-off A/C right away....hardly use it even in hot weather.

Also, the car idles rough, lots of vibration vs shaking.

Rush

I went through this too :),, your york compressor is shot and you need a rebuilt replacement unit.

the big deal will be getting one with the magnetic clutch system still attached.

now i got my replacement from ebay, because it came with the clutch assembly.

mustangsunlimited.com carries the york compressor however they changed and no longer offer units with the clutch attached.

see here:

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=54030+01

changing the clutch requires a puller and i didn't think i had the correct puller to do the job so i went for one with the clutch installed.

however you still need to take parts off the old compressor and install on the new on.

they make rebuild kits for the york, however if the piston cylinder is all worn out then a rebuild with a simple kit is pointless.

changing the compressor is pretty easy. the units come prefilled with oil, usually 134 oil, however you will need to drain it completely by poping the fill bolt because the oil may not be correct for your A/C technician and if has to change it later he will charge a ton for labor.

if the system is charged then you will want to have a A/C guy drain it properly you will be charged for it but you can work it into the re-charge fee.

so have the system drained and vacuumed out.

take it home, get the new compressor ready. pop the lines on the compressor and transfer hardware over, at this point you can stick with R12 or go to R134 conversion. install and reconnect as needed and hook up the belt again, and the clutch wire. replace the dryer, and go back to the a/c guy for a vacuum and pressure test then oil and refill on freon.

I never did an A/C system before but i rebuilt my entire A/C system from the ground up, and when i first got it running my compressor was causing the engine to overheat and lockup and the noise and vibration was terrible.

i replaced the compressor and it was night and day!!

so start looking into a York compressor replacement.

ebay link to a guy selling them with the clutch

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-COMPRESSOR-WITH-CLUTCH-YORK-1964-1971-FORD-MUSTANG-/230462501447?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35a8a2b247&vxp=mtr

oh one thing i remember, my replacement york had a different clutch connector on it then OEM so i spliced it from the original bad compressor, so never throw anything out until the new system is 100% working. i kept my old compressor for about 2 years after i got my system going just in case.

 
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