What to do with 351 C 4V with unknown parts

7173Mustangs.com

Help Support 7173Mustangs.com:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
C

Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs

Well-known member
7173 Mustang Supporter Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
8,032
Reaction score
526
Location
Western North Carolina
My Car
Multiple Mustangs!
Hello from N.C.,

I recently purchased a 72 Q vert with C6. This was a guys project car that a divorce forced the sell. His friend bought it and then I got from the friend. My issue is that the friend did not get a list of what was put into the engine and trans. Without knowing the exact parts in the engine I do not know valve settings or anything. I guess my only way to be sure is to tear the engine back down. It has never be run and still on engine stand that came with the car. All he can tell me is that he thinks it is 10.5 to 1 with a .577" lift roller with roller rockers. I can see the valves have been swirl polished but do not know brand or type. He also says triple valve springs. He says it was balanced but I know nothing about if it has stock rods, bolts, studs etc. I guess I just tear it down and see what is there?

He says the C-6 was also just built with shift kit and high stall converter but cannot give me specifics. He has also upgraded the rear to a 9" Detroit locker with he thinks 4.11 gear. Again I do not know the specifics.

I sort of want to finish the build but might also sell the car as is. I had ram air Ford stuff, tilt column, rim blow, console. It was dipped to strip all rust and paint and was epoxy primed inside closed areas and on surface.

I guess I am asking if I take some pictures of what is in the engine I am sure someone out there can tell me what it has in it. I would never have gone that radical for a street car too much upkeep with a cam lift like that. I understand they eat the valve springs or just kill them.

So I will go to the storage bld. where the engine is take some pictures and go from there. I am sure there are guys out there that know these parts and engines inside and out. He tells me there is over $5,000. in the engine and tans. Had a couple pics on phone will pull intake and pan to get better ones there.

The come to look at place for garage tomorrow, hurray.

Thanks,

David

 
The valve covers are '80's-ish vintage SVO Ford. More recently, they've been recast with the word "Racing" instead of Motorsport. They are not oiler style, although in the NASCAR world you may find some that have been converted to oiler style. Not exceptionally rare, but are cool.

Intake, although functional, is not one of the popular ones for a 4V engine. May work fine, but just not popular.

Rocker studs have been "converted" with an inexpensive screw in kit. The preferred way would be to mill the stud boss and install actual (larger diameter) screw in studs. This looks like a Crane brand kit, and again is functional, but retains the small diameter part of the "stud" where it screws into the head. Not a desirable modification for a triple springed, roller cammed, hi-rev 4V Cleveland, IMO. I own a set, but have not used them.

The rockers look like basic Crane Energizer parts or similar. Again, not high dollar but functional.

If curiosity got the best of you, yeah, pull the oil pan and intake for inspection to see what else lurks. You can look in a spark plug hole to see if the pistons are flat top, domed, or dished. Should be able to see if they're forged or cast also by the color of the metal, maybe even getting a brand name from the undersides of them (from the oil pan side).

I'd only pull the heads to inspect the valve job (for recession from an overzealous valve grinder tech).

Shouldn't even cost you gaskets since it's not been fired. If everything checks out OK, you could reuse them if not torn. I don't reuse head gaskets ever, even if it's not fired. Some people do, but that's your call.

Pulling the timing cover and gear should get you the brand and cam grind number so you can get accurate specs on it. They should be stamped into the front of the cam itself. Springs are anyone's guess.

Without paperwork on the parts, this should be the best way to "get whatcha got". Personally, I don't trust anyone's work except my own. Well, very rarely, but...

As for the $5G figure... unless the trans has $3200 of it....... :-/

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Based on the information that you wrote in your post and the pictures I would x3 on what Pete said: converting to adjustable valve train using that kit (not milling down the pedestals and drilling out the stock bolt holes) could be a big problem with high-load valve springs. You need to know the specs of the cam so that you can verify the springs are correct (meaning you'll need to pull the heads off and disassemble an intake and exhaust so you can measure the springs' load, installed height etc.), and you need to figure out what pistons are in it so that you get an idea of what the compression ratio is. Without knowing those two items, you're flying blind with how to finish off the engine and tune the combo once it's together.

I wouldn't worry so much about the trans as the engine, although it could have some funky shit in the valvebody I guess.

I wouldn't trust anything that I couldn't verify with my own eyes in a situation like this, people say what they think you want to hear when they stand to make money...

Good luck with the car whichever route you choose!

 
The valve covers are '80's-ish vintage SVO Ford. More recently, they've been recast with the word "Racing" instead of Motorsport. They are not oiler style, although in the NASCAR world you may find some that have been converted to oiler style. Not exceptionally rare, but are cool.

Intake, although functional, is not one of the popular ones for a 4V engine. May work fine, but just not popular.

Rocker studs have been "converted" with an inexpensive screw in kit. The preferred way would be to mill the stud boss and install actual (larger diameter) screw in studs. This looks like a Crane brand kit, and again is functional, but retains the small diameter part of the "stud" where it screws into the head. Not a desirable modification for a triple springed, roller cammed, hi-rev 4V Cleveland, IMO. I own a set, but have not used them.

The rockers look like basic Crane Energizer parts or similar. Again, not high dollar but functional.

If curiosity got the best of you, yeah, pull the oil pan and intake for inspection to see what else lurks. You can look in a spark plug hole to see if the pistons are flat top, domed, or dished. Should be able to see if they're forged or cast also by the color of the metal, maybe even getting a brand name from the undersides of them (from the oil pan side).

I'd only pull the heads to inspect the valve job (for recession from an overzealous valve grinder tech).

Shouldn't even cost you gaskets since it's not been fired. If everything checks out OK, you could reuse them if not torn. I don't reuse head gaskets ever, even if it's not fired. Some people do, but that's your call.

Pulling the timing cover and gear should get you the brand and cam grind number so you can get accurate specs on it. They should be stamped into the front of the cam itself. Springs are anyone's guess.

Without paperwork on the parts, this should be the best way to "get whatcha got". Personally, I don't trust anyone's work except my own. Well, very rarely, but...

As for the $5G figure... unless the trans has $3200 of it....... :-/
Click to expand...
Thanks for all your input and info. I think I will pull the entire engine apart. I did pull the pan and it has forged pistons could not read what was on the top of the piston through the spark plug holes. It has been since back in the 60's the last time I worked in a shop doing engine work but know how the clearances should be. I do not know the overbore or how straight he got the cylinders. My old boss Roger Ingram use to make me hold .0001" on straightness and size just using a 1/2" drill doing it by hand. You could not hone much and you had to let it cool down. The rocker studs do bug me I can see them flexing and breaking with those triple springs.

I do not see any signs of grinding on the rod ends like if was balanced and see no drill marks on the harmonic balancer or flex plate. So I suspect it was not balanced.

I am going to see if a guy I use to go cart race with is still in business he does lots of NASCAR engines Ben Barnes in Asheville. I will tear it down and check everything and go from there probably have Ben replace the studs and I might dump the roller cam and triple springs don't need or want that is a car I drive on the street.

I was going to see if I could look up the oil pump number maybe a Melling?

Right now I have to keep my mind and energy going on my garage build so maybe by April May I can have a great place to work.

Thanks again for your comments. I attached a couple pics with the pan off.

David

 
M84A = Melling standard volume oil pump

Also, those are not roller lifters. There are no tie bars to keep them from rotating. Maybe it's a solid lifter cam? Either way, the end of the cam itself should contain the info you need.

Keep those pics coming! Looks like a pretty darned decent start.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I haven't got to do anything here the weather stopped any work on garage. Got some trees cut and passed the first environmental inspection but cannot start grading until it dries up. Snow stopped then rain started. I am going away to Cuba for about 3 weeks and hope to come back to a nice dry building area to get the garage going.

When I get the engine apart will get you guys opinions on what to go back with. I am looking for a 4 bolt block like should be in the car. The casting numbers being the same on 2 and 4 bolt sucks. Found one in Fla but cannot get him to measure the bore so probably already been bored.

Too many projects and no place to work.

David

 

Similar threads

Idaho Chris
Refurbishing my '73 after 48 years of ownership
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
14K
Idaho Chris
Idaho Chris
T
What the heck is this??
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
basstrix
B
Mark Jones
Stroke of luck (Hopefully)
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
tony-muscle
tony-muscle
78 Mach1
351 Cleveland Build
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
5K
basstrix
B
delawarebill
front susp kits ?
Replies
5
Views
745
Marks1
Marks1

Latest posts

Back
Top