Jump to content

Anyone with experience with MSD, FAST or HOLLEY EFI?


Recommended Posts

I was thinking of installing one of those self programming EFI kits instead of buying a carb. The problem is I have never attempted to install one nor have I ever driven a car with one of those systems.

 

Can anybody share their experiences?

 

Thanks in advance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We installed the Professional Products Powerjection III and we really like it. The O2 sensor set up they send is a bit hokey so we welded in the fitting when we built the exhaust. We did the MSD distributor and locked out the timing so the Powerjection controls the timing. We still need to work on the fuel pump. The MSD frame rail mounted pump is really noisy

 

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/ezgallery.php?action=myimages&u=3961]My Mach[/button] [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=3961]Check out My Garage[/button]

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep in mind I am still learning, however, my take;

 

Was going to go with one of these systems, then started reading about the difference between annular and down leg carbs, and the affect they have on power at different parts of the rpm range. If your intention is simply fuel mileage, then disregard.

 

Tuned my quick fuel annular 750 dp, and can tell you it has the throttle response of any 5.0 fox i have owned in the past. The low end is unreal, as advertised. The low end torque compared to the down leg I had on there is night and day (mustang 360 had an article where they got 91 lbs of torque increase with annular at 3300 rpm or so). It doesnt starve at all, albeit ive only taken it to 6K which is more than enough for me.

 

Anyway, I am still a newbie on actually working on cars, but I have owned a crap ton of mustangs. The previous carb I was running felt like every other carb'd car I have driven over the years. This new carb is absolutley amazing, I am being 100% honest that it feels as crisp as any EFI car I have driven

 

Obviously there is a huge price spread as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back a couple of years ago I was planning and new (imaginary) engine build and decided to go with EFI for dependability. This lead to a ton of research, most of which I have forgotten, but I do remember that I ended choosing the FAST EFI for my build (which has yet to take place). So that's what I can provide, I compared MSD, Edelbrock, and FAST when choosing which unit to go with. Hope this helps.

1_12_09_14_10_32_45.png

 

- Nik

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am considering installing the EFI on a bone stock 351 boss engine. I am wondering if it's worth the expense over an annular carb. It is mildly pro-toured. It has all Global West front and rear suspension, roller perches, swaybars, Hooker Super Comps, 18" Magnums, shocks, BeCool rad and twin fans, hi flow water pump and a autolite distributor with a Perteonix ignition. Brakes by Baer and a high output 140amp alternator. All designed to look like stock. All the numbers correct parts are stored away.

 

My idea is to pro-tour the car but keep it stock looking as much as possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4mm,

 

+1 with 71mach1lady. If cost is not a real concern, this kit is hands down. I have seen one of these kits on a Chevy Nova with a stout 350 and the owner stated it was like night and day between the carb. and the EFI system

 

 

http://www.professional-products.com/Home-Fuel-Injection-Powerjection-III/Powerjection-III-Base-Kit-Electronic-Fuel-Injection-Kit-Polished-p386.html

 

mustang7173

Thanks,

mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For what it's worth. I'm working on a 1968 Dodge Charger for a customer that another shop installed a Powerjection III system on it. The car has a 528ci Hemi with a solid roller cam and the EFI system on the car is NOT happy. This system is coming off and a custom carburetor is going on with the required supporting components. I'm not blaming the Powerjection but every system has its place and application. These bolt-on EFI systems have limitations and are mainly designed around mild 300ci-400ci engine combinations. They have tuning capabilities that can easily exceed a box stock carb, but they can only cope with so much.

Mike

__________________________________

Black 1985 GT

Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1

Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's

Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is definitely a limit on the HP with the stock set up but I believe I remember reading on the Powerjection site that changes can be made to cover higher hp engines

 

We bought our system on sale around the holidays. I think it was like 25% off

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/ezgallery.php?action=myimages&u=3961]My Mach[/button] [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=3961]Check out My Garage[/button]

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a look at this article..

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/1403-car-crafts-giant-efi-test/

 

Personally, I have purchased a 5.0L EFI harness, Accufab Throttle body and Pro-M MAF. I will have basically a 5.0L setup but everything will be upgraded for the motor. Anyone who can tune a 5.0L can tune this. It won't look as trick but i won't have to mess around with "will it work?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'am using the MSD Atomic EFI setup with the computer controlling the timing too. So far I am very happy with the system and haven't had any issues. Have to admit I agree with 71mach1lady, the fuel pump is a little noisy. The only real issue is that if you want the EFI system to control the timing you have to use the MSD dizzy which causes clearance issues with the air cleaner. You can modify the air cleaner to make it fit though. In the 2nd pic you can see that there will be a clearance issue with the air filter and the top of the dizzy so I used a smaller air cleaner. The first pic is after modifying the stock air cleaner it fits ok. Here's a vid after I installed it during my build.

 

IMG_0423.thumb.JPG.f0a4844cd37b5fea996a7733a597f5ec.JPG

493542573_Lokar(21).thumb.jpg.771790d260b7116f0a999ecce44fdf2d.jpg

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^Nice, is that a blue thunder intake and covers? That MSD dist looks rather large, another other distributor options?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^Nice, is that a blue thunder intake and covers? That MSD dist looks rather large, another other distributor options?

 

Yes, Blue Thunder.

The MSD Dizzy is about 9" tall so it will not clear the stock air cleaner without some mods. If you don't want the computer to control timing then you can use the stock dizzy and avoid those problems. On my build I have a few pics of what I had to do to get it to fit.

 

I believe that the FAST EFI system has a dizzy that you can get to work with their system. I don't have any idea about the height of those.

 

EFI so far drives really nice. No cold start hesitation and great throttle response. I am using a 290* duration cam and the system controls the motor really well. It is very streetable and idles at 850 rpm's.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can modify a Duraspark distributor to work with a MSD box. So you should be able to use it with the EFI system as well.

Mike

__________________________________

Black 1985 GT

Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1

Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's

Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If money is not an issue go with MassFlo EFI, its 4K but you get everything for the conversion (intake, harness, dist, coil, injectors, throttle body, o2 sensors, fuel rails the works). For a stock to mild engine the MSD is very good, then Fast and hve not used powerjection or edel.

The poster that is having trouble with the 528 hemi the problem is this: FAST and all the other box kits cannot run an engine that generate low vacuum(below10 inches) because they cannot create the data from the sensors to generate a reasonable idle profile. car may run but will be rich as hell, or stumble badly because the program has to learn every time it comes off idle but may run pretty good WOT which is almost never.

Massflow however runs the wildest mill better than any carb. ever will. I know this sounds like a paid advertisment but its through my trial and struggleing to learn what it takes for an EFI to run an engine... and why an efi kit is not properly running my engine. Had the FAST kit on a 427 Ford racing crate motor and it would not run worth a ------! called fast and they finally told me my vacuum was too low for the system to function after accusing me of not installing it correctly and saying my charging system was bad and my intake was leaking form improper installation. So I chewed them a new one and sent pics of the brand new wiring displaying 14 volts at idle from a 3G alt nside the car on this custom build and a steady 10" .WHY NOT PUT THIS ON THE DAMN BOX???? so i took it off and set it aside, used it later on a stock 375hp 440 R/T Charger and it worked great.

Went to the other guys and asked them outright would thier system run my setup and they all (bar one) said no when cornered.

Chris at Massflo schooled me and I paid for thier system, installed it(it has provisions for 3 stages of nitrous, forced induction and it manages EVERYTHING flawlessly. Idles up for ac, controls electric fan(s), timing, ac cut out at WOT, literally anything you want it to. And its a true mass airflow style system not speed density style which most others are. The difference is quite significant when trying to manage a radical engine and a stock one too. Mass flow looks at load, barometric pressure, inlet air temp, engine temp, engine load and uses 2 wideband o2 sensors to constantly manage the air fuel ratio. Speed density systems essentially rely on engine temp and throttle position to decide what the engine is doing. Dont get me wron speed density works ok on a stock motor but shows its wakness when big camshaft profiles or large displacement come into play.

If using the MSD which I have used and liked on stock engines, always try to use a retun style fuel system, this helps keep the fuel circulating and cool.

The MSD is more seamless than FAST which has to cycle the injectors before cranking the car, turn to on then wait a second to hear injecotrs click 4 to 8 times then start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If money is not an issue go with MassFlo EFI, its 4K but you get everything for the conversion (intake, harness, dist, coil, injectors, throttle body, o2 sensors, fuel rails the works). For a stock to mild engine the MSD is very good, then Fast and hve not used powerjection or edel.

The poster that is having trouble with the 528 hemi the problem is this: FAST and all the other box kits cannot run an engine that generate low vacuum(below10 inches) because they cannot create the data from the sensors to generate a reasonable idle profile. car may run but will be rich as hell, or stumble badly because the program has to learn every time it comes off idle but may run pretty good WOT which is almost never.

Massflow however runs the wildest mill better than any carb. ever will. I know this sounds like a paid advertisment but its through my trial and struggleing to learn what it takes for an EFI to run an engine... and why an efi kit is not properly running my engine. Had the FAST kit on a 427 Ford racing crate motor and it would not run worth a ------! called fast and they finally told me my vacuum was too low for the system to function after accusing me of not installing it correctly and saying my charging system was bad and my intake was leaking form improper installation. So I chewed them a new one and sent pics of the brand new wiring displaying 14 volts at idle from a 3G alt nside the car on this custom build and a steady 10" .WHY NOT PUT THIS ON THE DAMN BOX???? so i took it off and set it aside, used it later on a stock 375hp 440 R/T Charger and it worked great.

Went to the other guys and asked them outright would thier system run my setup and they all (bar one) said no when cornered.

Chris at Massflo schooled me and I paid for thier system, installed it(it has provisions for 3 stages of nitrous, forced induction and it manages EVERYTHING flawlessly. Idles up for ac, controls electric fan(s), timing, ac cut out at WOT, literally anything you want it to. And its a true mass airflow style system not speed density style which most others are. The difference is quite significant when trying to manage a radical engine and a stock one too. Mass flow looks at load, barometric pressure, inlet air temp, engine temp, engine load and uses 2 wideband o2 sensors to constantly manage the air fuel ratio. Speed density systems essentially rely on engine temp and throttle position to decide what the engine is doing. don't get me wron speed density works ok on a stock motor but shows its wakness when big camshaft profiles or large displacement come into play.

If using the MSD which I have used and liked on stock engines, always try to use a retun style fuel system, this helps keep the fuel circulating and cool.

The MSD is more seamless than FAST which has to cycle the injectors before cranking the car, turn to on then wait a second to hear injecotrs click 4 to 8 times then start.

 

Great to know! I never bought the fast system, but will be doing a 429 build soon, so I will definitely have to check out the mass flow system.

1_12_09_14_10_32_45.png

 

- Nik

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am glad you found this info helpful, there is nothing worse than investing in something only to be dissappointed by false advertising or not getting full disclosure when shopping a product. Keep us apprised wit your build, I am doing one now for a 69 Thunderbird im restoring. Bought some cheaper aluminum heads off ebay and a roller cam, I hope it runs smooth, quiet - and forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

Has anyone tried the PACE performance EFI (TBI) system?

http://paceperformance.com/i-22321653-pac-30002-600-hp-efi-master-package-with-fuel-pump.html

The kit seems to come with all what's needed, and an added bonus is that the ECU is mounted right in the throttle body so no need to wire that separately. Based on their claim it sounds like a great product, but I am wondering what's the real feedback from the field.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

jbojo,

 

That is very very nice looking!

 

mustang7173 :bravo:

 

 

 

 

I'am using the MSD Atomic EFI setup with the computer controlling the timing too. So far I am very happy with the system and haven't had any issues. Have to admit I agree with 71mach1lady, the fuel pump is a little noisy. The only real issue is that if you want the EFI system to control the timing you have to use the MSD dizzy which causes clearance issues with the air cleaner. You can modify the air cleaner to make it fit though. In the 2nd pic you can see that there will be a clearance issue with the air filter and the top of the dizzy so I used a smaller air cleaner. The first pic is after modifying the stock air cleaner it fits ok. Here's a vid after I installed it during my build.

 

Thanks,

mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...