429 SCJ versus tuned engine

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Higgins56

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
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Location
Finland
My Car
1971 Mach 1 Fastback now with 503 CID 4 bolt block with AFR Bullit heads , Edelbrock Performer RPM AirGap intake and ProSystems carburettor 1050.
4 sp Toploader with 9" Wavetrac rear.
Caltracs and shocks at the rear.
I put the thread here as it regards the engine and drive train change effecting the car value.

This is the case:

I have found an original looking car 1971 1F05J 17XXXX which should be a 429 SCJ with drag pack.

The thing is that there is no RAM Air anymore, no oil cooler and the engine ( I belive the block is original - but not sure) is much modified with :

- Ford motorspsort intake + aftermarket cleaner - mis 90's

-Holley 1050 carburettor - mid 90's

-Cobra Jet heads ( AR Engineering - mid 90's)

-the engine is nowadays a 505 cui

-Mallory HyFire electrics - mid 90's

-Hooker headers

- the gearbox C6 has Gearstar modification - mid 90's

- the engine is claimed to produce 650 hp

So under the hood is not much left of the original specs and I understand that one of the most valuable things with SCJ is the engine and its originality when talking about the car value.

car looks pretty good and orignal otherwise.However i have a feeling that not much have been done to it since the mid 90's.

I am considering making an offer for the car but do not know how to evaluate it.

The asking price is 55.000 USD.

 
IMO, way too much $$ for something missing so many factory items.
Any realistic idea of the value in USD ?

In the Ebay you can buy a 429 SCJ engine for 6-7.000 USD...

 
IMO, way too much $$ for something missing so many factory items.
Any realistic idea of the value in USD ?

In the Ebay you can buy a 429 SCJ engine for 6-7.000 USD...
Huge problem - you have not provided near enough information about the car to do a real valuation. But generally I'd agree with Bill73Ragtop that the car you describe is extremely high for some of the special stuff gone. If you are paying for a ultra rare car - it needs to have most of the stuff that makes it unique/rare. If I look at a car that is rare because of the drivetrain and that which makes it rare has been modified - or gone - it does not 'appear' as that rare car. It would be a ONCE RARE car that has been modified. If the seller had all the pieces to put it back correct - that would help but the work would have to be done by someone to put it back correct. BUT if you like the car as it has been modified and would probably modify the car in the same way if it was all original, then the modifications hold value.

I know this is long and probably wordy but I hope you get my drift...

Good luck in finding the car you want.

Ray

 
IMO, way too much $$ for something missing so many factory items.
Any realistic idea of the value in USD ?

In the Ebay you can buy a 429 SCJ engine for 6-7.000 USD...
Huge problem - you have not provided near enough information about the car to do a real valuation. But generally I'd agree with Bill73Ragtop that the car you describe is extremely high for some of the special stuff gone. If you are paying for a ultra rare car - it needs to have most of the stuff that makes it unique/rare. If I look at a car that is rare because of the drivetrain and that which makes it rare has been modified - or gone - it does not 'appear' as that rare car. It would be a ONCE RARE car that has been modified. If the seller had all the pieces to put it back correct - that would help but the work would have to be done by someone to put it back correct. BUT if you like the car as it has been modified and would probably modify the car in the same way if it was all original, then the modifications hold value.

I know this is long and probably wordy but I hope you get my drift...

Good luck in finding the car you want.

Ray
Yes - it is not easy task.

Here are some photos and tech. material. if that would help.

This car should be a 10.3 sec / 1/4 mile - 138 MPH car.....

SCJ 1.jpg

SCJ 2.jpg

SCJ 3.jpg

SCJ 4.jpg

SCJ5.jpg

SCJ6.jpg

SCJ7.jpg

 
My take and consistent with what others have said...

The true value in this rare car or any rare car is that it is 99% complete as original. If some mods have been made the original parts are there to put back together as delivered. The fact that so much is missing/changed makes this worth no more than a run of the mill Mach 1 in my opinion.

First thing I would want to know is if the block is original with VIN stamped in it. If it is, then figure out how much to replace the modified parts with correct originals. This should give you some idea as what you could afford to pay.

 
I agree with the others, the value of this car is what it is today, a Mach 1 restomod, not what it once was or what it might be in the future. The only thing that might make it worth more than any other restomod is if it had been owned by some famous race car driver or other celebrity. Restomods are seldom, if ever, worth what has been put into them.

Bottom line is if you like it enough the way it is to pay that much for it, or if you want it to be worth what you pay for it. If you're concerned about the present and future value you need to determine what the total cost of the car will be to restore it to original (what you pay for it plus all of the parts) versus what the restored value is (a benefit/cost analysis).

 
Reference the oil cooler. I'm not certain but, I don't believe the 1971 Drag Pak Mustang got the oil cooler like the Torino did. There was a D1ZZ part number cooler kit available over the counter.

Reference the price. Is the car already in Finland? The Transportation, duty, and, taxes could be a deal breaker if the car is still in the US. $55K is high for the car in the US. It may be reasonable for the Finnish Market, I don't know. Much depends on the condition and originality of the rest of the car.

The old print out shows the engine to be 500 cubic inches. That part could be a lot of fun. I suppose much depends on how you want to use the car and whether or not you are looking at it as an investment.

Let us know what you decide to do. Chuck

 
Reference the oil cooler. I'm not certain but, I don't believe the 1971 Drag Pak Mustang got the oil cooler like the Torino did. There was a D1ZZ part number cooler kit available over the counter.

Reference the price. Is the car already in Finland? The Transportation, duty, and, taxes could be a deal breaker if the car is still in the US. $55K is high for the car in the US. It may be reasonable for the Finnish Market, I don't know. Much depends on the condition and originality of the rest of the car.

The old print out shows the engine to be 500 cubic inches. That part could be a lot of fun. I suppose much depends on how you want to use the car and whether or not you are looking at it as an investment.

Let us know what you decide to do. Chuck
Hi Chuck and thanks to all others too for comments.

Yes the car is in Finland . It was imported to Sweden already 1972 but the rest is unclear.

The car - as it is now - is pretty much original from chassis but the modified engine and transmission makes it a bit special.

Could be a car - as you say - for somebody who likes to attend club competitions with a car that looks standard.

I already have a 71 Mach 1 with a donor engine 429 / 4sp Toploader giving ab. 450 hp and it is great fun. I thought to go even further to make a deal with the present owner to change cars but the balance remains too dear for me so I have to forget this interesting car. The present owner does not see missing components to affect much to the value of his SCJ.

Btw - importing an old car to Finland is not so costy anymore as it was in the past.

Thanks once again to all. It is great to have such a venue where you can share things and get enthusiasts comments and advice. Really cool !

 
Higgins, car was for sale 2-4 years ago in Sweden and the pricetag was somewhere in 40 grand at that point (35.000 €). Swedes does not let the good one's get off their hands (they're smart people!). If it would have been original it would have been costed then 60 grand (50.000€).

IMO, this particular Cobra eventhough its original Cobra 429 it's not worth of the money been asked. Original price tag back in the Sweden made me tickle for sure but now the pricetag is not in the right area, way too expensive.

There is also some misinformation for sure, it was sold as a 521 cid when I was looking at it. ET calculator is software, in real life 650hp would be high 10 or low 11s @ quarter mile. 140 mph does need more than 650 hp, my friends car has 1050hp with 3400 lbs it scoots to 142 mph and it's got a prostreet suspension.

Place an offer for 30.000 € and start negoating from there. If you'll end up buying it, I can take the ol' filthy beaten up 521 cid off your hands for nothing - such an old parts... :angel: My friend at Friendsville TN has a stack of 429 CJ/SCJ ready to be done as original as it gets. Date coded parts are a pain in a butt but if not so important they can be done easily to match the original engine.

BTW Higgings, are you coming to Ford Nationals this year?

 
My two cents. A car is only original once and is restored or modified after that. The price does seem high for U.S. but I know they are rare here but even more so there. As with all purchases you spend what you are comfortable with set a limit and stick with it and don't let emotion get in the way.

I have found when buying cars in the U.S. that if you take the cash with you, and not in the largest bills, so you have a big stack it makes the deal go faster. Here in the U.S. if you are buying a car for $20,000 and have a case full of $20.00 bills that looks impressive. Two little stacks of $100.00 do not look to impressive. Only take what you are willing to pay and walk if they do not agree. I have had phone calls later after the seller finds out there are not many offers with cash in hand and close the deal for my price.

David

 
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