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Help with overheating issue :(


PolishedTurd
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Hey guys. My car has been over heating for a while so I decided I should do a flush and went ahead and did that. Coolant was pretty nasty and finally got the whole system flushed and bled it. There are no more air bubbles visual and water pump seems to be working just fine as well but the temperature seems to keep rising. PO deleted the mechanical fan and installed an electric fan which also seems to be fine and kicks in right at 180' which also means the thermostat works just fine but I feel like electric fan is not enough at all. Where else should I look at? I was thinking I should install the stock fan back on knowing that they do the job pretty well. Is that what I'm missing? I also messed up with the coolant mixture and I think it's about 70/30, would that be the reason why? Thanks in advance guys!

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The less antifreeze you put in the ratio with water, the better the cooling is. If you live in a warm climate and rarely face freezing temps you should use much less antifreeze. I personally have used about a 70/30 ratio of distilled water to original green antifreeze and a bottle of Water Wetter. My temps went down by 10-15 deg when i switched from the 50/50 mix using this approach. Have used on all my cars and can't ever remember having one overheat. I also live in a warm southern california climate.

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Jeff

1972 Q Code Convertible

 

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Hey guys. My car has been over heating for a while so I decided I should do a flush and went ahead and did that. Coolant was pretty nasty and finally got the whole system flushed and bled it. There are no more air bubbles visual and water pump seems to be working just fine as well but the temperature seems to keep rising. PO deleted the mechanical fan and installed an electric fan which also seems to be fine and kicks in right at 180' which also means the thermostat works just fine but I feel like electric fan is not enough at all. Where else should I look at? I was thinking I should install the stock fan back on knowing that they do the job pretty well. Is that what I'm missing? I also messed up with the coolant mixture and I think it's about 70/30, would that be the reason why? Thanks in advance guys!

 

You've got to look on the fan(s) for the model # and research the specs on them. Just 'cause they're electric, doesn't mean much. How many cfm's does this fan deliver. There is a direct relationship between cfm (movement of air across your radiator) and HP of your motor. (It's production of heat) Climate, of course is also a variable to consider. When you make a jump to electric cfm is key and how you control that cfm. Start with learning what it is that you actually have. Then post a question as to whether or not your fan's rating is properly matched to your specific application. Nobody on here can properly answer your question without first knowing what you've got. What engine...?

By the way, the fan turns on based on the thermo switch closing the circuit. It seems you have a 180° thermo switch installed. Is this thermo switch installed (screwed into the block) just below the thermostat housing, in the factory temp gauge sending unit location?

The turning on of the fan does not give any indication as to whether the thermostat is functioning correctly. The thermostat "could" be stuck closed and the fan will still turn on when the engine temp reaches 180°. If you see the fan turn on and around the same time you can see a coolant current flow difference in your radiator, that would indicate the thermostat opening. (functioning) Taking out a thermostat and checking it's function in a pot of water on a stove is so simple, it's the first variable to eliminate. While it's out, if it's a Cleveland, check to see if there is a brass washer pressed into the block about an inch inside/below the thermostat. Let us know what you find out. Remember, if you want to cure the problem, you've got to do the investigation. Hope this helps!

Eric

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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Is the fan flush with the radiator or is there a chance that it simply swirls air around without actually pushing or sucking it through the radiator?

Is it running the correct way around? I've seen electric fans strapped to the inside which pushed the air forward instead of sucking it into the engine compartment.

Silly details that can make or break it.

If you go to an original fan, don't forget the fan shrout!

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Mike
"If I were you...... I´d rather be me." 😛
Check out my video:
http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-my-mustang-in-action

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Does it overheat at idle or while cruising along at higher speeds?

 

Often overlooked is a blocked / corroded radiator core. If it begins to creep up while cruising, that is often the sign of a blocked core.

 

One other thing to consider is the age (and mileage) on the water pump itself. I've seen cases where the water pump impeller is worn away from decades of operation. If you can observe good flow, then the pump is probably fine.

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The Cleveland's cooling system is a bit unconventional. I would check the thermostat and the block where the thermostat sits to make sure the brass ring is still present in the block. A correct Cleveland thermostat will have a plug at the end that slides into the middle of the brass ring in the block when open to ensure proper coolant flow. I'm guessing you have an incorrect Windsor thermostat, which is what most auto part shops will sell you. This can and will cause overheating issues, as coolant is not being sent through the block and heads as it would with a proper thermostat.

Jason (71 Mach 1, 351C 4V, 4 Spd. Toploader, Grabber Blue)

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Can anybody provide a part number and/or link to the right vendor for the proper thermostat?

 

Also, if someone had their engine gone through (as in, torn down, machined, and rebuilt) how would one go about obtaining a proper brass ring as a replacement (or does it come with the correct thermostat).

 

I ask because I don't recall the brass ring in mine, and while it hasn't overheated (although has run a little warmer than I would've thought it should), I don't want to take any chances.

 

Thanks in advance!

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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Can anybody provide a part number and/or link to the right vendor for the proper thermostat?

 

Also, if someone had their engine gone through (as in, torn down, machined, and rebuilt) how would one go about obtaining a proper brass ring as a replacement (or does it come with the correct thermostat).

 

I ask because I don't recall the brass ring in mine, and while it hasn't overheated (although has run a little warmer than I would've thought it should), I don't want to take any chances.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-correct-thermostat?highlight=thermostat

 

I would start here. Lots of good info in this very forum.

Jason (71 Mach 1, 351C 4V, 4 Spd. Toploader, Grabber Blue)

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Mr. Turd. We will need more info on the symptoms.

'Mike'

73 Convertible - 351C/4V CC heads/4bolt/forged flat tops/comp 270/rhodes/mallory unilite/tri-power/hookers/glasspacks/c6/3.50 limited slip/Gear Vendors/Global West sub frames, strut rods and shelby style traction bars/ Rear sway bar/tilt steering (not original)

 

Pics of modifications included in: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-convertible--3335]My Garage[/button]

 

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Can anybody provide a part number and/or link to the right vendor for the proper thermostat?

 

Also, if someone had their engine gone through (as in, torn down, machined, and rebuilt) how would one go about obtaining a proper brass ring as a replacement (or does it come with the correct thermostat).

 

I ask because I don't recall the brass ring in mine, and while it hasn't overheated (although has run a little warmer than I would've thought it should), I don't want to take any chances.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

The brass rings do not come with the thermostat. Usually when a machine shop works on the block they will pull the ring. Without this the cooling is partially bypassed and I would expect the higher engine temps. I went with a 180* thermostat and electric cooling fans and the motor temp gets to about 185* max now in 90+ degree weather.

 

Eric, Pull your thermostat and check if you have this ring installed. I have a couple new ones that I purchased a few years ago buried in my parts in the garage and I can send you one if you need it, PM me. Also attaching a diagram that I posted in another thread a while back.

RobertshawSmallMontage_zpsc458c43d.jpg.5df0a60322d8e58bc4f32e0c48e779a3.jpg

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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There are two main options in regards to the Cleveland bypass. Each of which have some other considerations.

The #1, stock set up is the most "dummy proof" but it all comes down to you having to rely on a $10. part. The thermostat must work correctly for the factory internal "Controlled Bypass System" (as Ford called it) to work. Brand new thermostats can work incorrectly, so if you're gonna go this route, test your thermostat for proper functioning.

The #2, "Pantera set up" will make your engine take longer to warm up to the temperature it was designed to run at. Some people think that if your not overheating, all is good. Underheating is also not good, it's just not as obvious. If you like to run your car in the summer without the heat on...I'd caution you. (who the hell wants their heat on in the summer?...you ask) you're already working without the internal "Controlled Bypass System" by going with the #2 option. The heater core loop also works as a bypass loop (shortcut around the radiator) while the thermostat has yet to open. With both possible bypasses closed where does the water pump get it's return water supply, prior to the radiator loop being opened by the thermostat?...it doesn't have one. The coolant in your heads is not circulating (or going anywhere) if it has no where to go to. To remedy this, the more learned/experienced guys will drill a "few" 1/8" or 3/16" holes around the perimeter of the thermostat. This will allow "some" water to circulate through the radiator, providing return for the pump to pump. Two 1/8" holes for stock hp motor to 3-4 3/16" holes for a high hp motor. (get the picture?) Again, this option will take longer to heat up to operating temperature, so if your constantly using the car for 1/2 hours runs and it never gets any hotter than 140°, you will have other problems and will NEVER TRUELY EXPERIENCE THE ENGINE'S POWER POTENTIAL. There are way too many variables to consider which is why the Ford engineers came up with #1. Test your thermostat.


Can anybody provide a part number and/or link to the right vendor for the proper thermostat?

 

Also, if someone had their engine gone through (as in, torn down, machined, and rebuilt) how would one go about obtaining a proper brass ring as a replacement (or does it come with the correct thermostat).

 

I ask because I don't recall the brass ring in mine, and while it hasn't overheated (although has run a little warmer than I would've thought it should), I don't want to take any chances.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

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1109704180_Stant13469onAmazon.PNG.62a8fe7fb506c852b6520dded8e7eb89.PNG

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730697957_Thermostattypes.thumb.PNG.7bf9c9c216e5121e1233715f84d4fbc8.PNG

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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There are two main options in regards to the Cleveland bypass. Each of which have some other considerations.

The #1, stock set up is the most "dummy proof" but it all comes down to you having to rely on a $10. part. The thermostat must work correctly for the factory internal "Controlled Bypass System" (as Ford called it) to work. Brand new thermostats can work incorrectly, so if you're gonna go this route, test your thermostat for proper functioning.

The #2, "Pantera set up" will make your engine take longer to warm up to the temperature it was designed to run at. Some people think that if your not overheating, all is good. Underheating is also not good, it's just not as obvious. If you like to run your car in the summer without the heat on...I'd caution you. (who the hell wants their heat on in the summer?...you ask) you're already working without the internal "Controlled Bypass System" by going with the #2 option. The heater core loop also works as a bypass loop (shortcut around the radiator) while the thermostat has yet to open. With both possible bypasses closed where does the water pump get it's return water supply, prior to the radiator loop being opened by the thermostat?...it doesn't have one. The coolant in your heads is not circulating (or going anywhere) if it has no where to go to. To remedy this, the more learned/experienced guys will drill a "few" 1/8" or 3/16" holes around the perimeter of the thermostat. This will allow "some" water to circulate through the radiator, providing return for the pump to pump. Two 1/8" holes for stock hp motor to 3-4 3/16" holes for a high hp motor. (get the picture?) Again, this option will take longer to heat up to operating temperature, so if your constantly using the car for 1/2 hours runs and it never gets any hotter than 140°, you will have other problems and will NEVER TRUELY EXPERIENCE THE ENGINE'S POWER POTENTIAL. There are way too many variables to consider which is why the Ford engineers came up with #1. Test your thermostat.

 

Deleted my post. I see the pics now

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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There are two main options in regards to the Cleveland bypass. Each of which have some other considerations.

The #1, stock set up is the most "dummy proof" but it all comes down to you having to rely on a $10. part. The thermostat must work correctly for the factory internal "Controlled Bypass System" (as Ford called it) to work. Brand new thermostats can work incorrectly, so if you're gonna go this route, test your thermostat for proper functioning.

The #2, "Pantera set up" will make your engine take longer to warm up to the temperature it was designed to run at. Some people think that if your not overheating, all is good. Underheating is also not good, it's just not as obvious. If you like to run your car in the summer without the heat on...I'd caution you. (who the hell wants their heat on in the summer?...you ask) you're already working without the internal "Controlled Bypass System" by going with the #2 option. The heater core loop also works as a bypass loop (shortcut around the radiator) while the thermostat has yet to open. With both possible bypasses closed where does the water pump get it's return water supply, prior to the radiator loop being opened by the thermostat?...it doesn't have one. The coolant in your heads is not circulating (or going anywhere) if it has no where to go to. To remedy this, the more learned/experienced guys will drill a "few" 1/8" or 3/16" holes around the perimeter of the thermostat. This will allow "some" water to circulate through the radiator, providing return for the pump to pump. Two 1/8" holes for stock hp motor to 3-4 3/16" holes for a high hp motor. (get the picture?) Again, this option will take longer to heat up to operating temperature, so if your constantly using the car for 1/2 hours runs and it never gets any hotter than 140°, you will have other problems and will NEVER TRUELY EXPERIENCE THE ENGINE'S POWER POTENTIAL. There are way too many variables to consider which is why the Ford engineers came up with #1. Test your thermostat.


Can anybody provide a part number and/or link to the right vendor for the proper thermostat?

 

Also, if someone had their engine gone through (as in, torn down, machined, and rebuilt) how would one go about obtaining a proper brass ring as a replacement (or does it come with the correct thermostat).

 

I ask because I don't recall the brass ring in mine, and while it hasn't overheated (although has run a little warmer than I would've thought it should), I don't want to take any chances.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have purchased the washer and the thermostat(s) form this seller on Ebay. He is a machinist, by trade. I can personally tell you that he produces a "better than stock" quality brass washer. He machines and presses on the copper skirt onto a Robertshaw high flow thermostat (180° or 195°, I bought both) and it also comes to you as "better than stock." Both the skirt and the brass washer that he produces, in his machine shop, in CA (USA), is thicker and the tolerances between the skirt and the opening in the brass washer are tighter. I am happy with the purchase, after getting over the fact of paying $50 for a friggin' thermostat and $50 for a brass washer. Once I saw the quality and thought about it, he certainly deserves to charge that much and I'm glad he produces them!!! I have no affiliation, at all with the guy but do appreciate his desire to have a better product and then his willingness to produce them. "you get what you pay for"

Eric

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351C-BUNDLED-Set...280172afa6

 

20150608_132811.thumb.jpg.e176390dba568757ff064f83feca9c41.jpg

20150608_132825.thumb.jpg.a7b9fe1b227385ec487779f440f5c3da.jpg

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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Can anybody provide a part number and/or link to the right vendor for the proper thermostat?

 

Also, if someone had their engine gone through (as in, torn down, machined, and rebuilt) how would one go about obtaining a proper brass ring as a replacement (or does it come with the correct thermostat).

 

I ask because I don't recall the brass ring in mine, and while it hasn't overheated (although has run a little warmer than I would've thought it should), I don't want to take any chances.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

A short write-up here:

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-351c-cooling-system

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Can anybody provide a part number and/or link to the right vendor for the proper thermostat?

 

Also, if someone had their engine gone through (as in, torn down, machined, and rebuilt) how would one go about obtaining a proper brass ring as a replacement (or does it come with the correct thermostat).

 

I ask because I don't recall the brass ring in mine, and while it hasn't overheated (although has run a little warmer than I would've thought it should), I don't want to take any chances.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

A short write-up here:

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-351c-cooling-system

Don, I was reading back through the thread (you just included) where you and I had a discussed this topic back in February. (this was just before I realized the block in the 73 I just purchased, was cracked) Ouch!

This was a very intriguing subject (the "bypass washer") to me then and still is today. EVERYONE, PLEASE, let's call it a "bypass washer" and not a "restrictor washer." The brass washer is a "bypass washer." the Pantera washer is a "restrictor washer." The brass washer allows bypass and works in conjunction with the correct Cleveland thermostat to stop bypass when the engine is at operating temperature. The Pantera washer only restricts. The Pantera washer was not developed by WCCC, they just sell it. One of the Pantera guys developed it and produces it. If you ask WCCC about it, they don't endorse it at all. If you have a Pantera you'll consider just about anything to help keep the mid-engine cooler. It's mid-engine placement has always been a challenge, to say the least, to keep cool. Abandoning the internal bypass washer/correct thermostat is a mistake, IMHO.

Eric

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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