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New Old Classics?


Mister 4x4
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http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/06/17/bill-could-launch-new-american-classic-car-industry/

 

This could mean a LOT of business for Dynacorn. ;) :D

 

So, who would buy (and pay full price) for a brand new 1971-73 Mustang (if/when offered)?

 

Would you want it faithfully reproduced (with points ignitions, AM/FM radios, rag-joint steering, et al), or with updated drivetrain, safety items, and creature comforts?

 

Given the feelings of "checkbook restorations," how would the hardcore restoration guy (the one who did all the hard work himself) feel about seeing a brand-new VIN'd Boss 351 take the trophy at a car show over his faithfully restored 10-year-long project.

 

I ask, because to the uneducated observer, there are [potentially] going to be a LOT of 'new' classics out there - actual heritage won't mean a thing to pretty much everybody walking around at a car show seeing a really nice classic muscle car.

 

What kind of licensing would have to happen for the auto manufacturers to authorize a start-up company to begin production of old classics? I mean, if people are flocking to buy 'new' '69 Mach 1s rather than new Mustang GTs, how would Ford feel about that, knowing their endorsement would be causing loss of sales?

 

Don't get me wrong - I like the concept, because that will mean even more reproduction unobtainium items becoming available for our cars (eventually, I'm sure)... but I can't help but wonder how it will be received by the enthusiasts as well as the auto manufacturers themselves.

 

Thoughts?

Eric

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For the most part I DO NOT like this idea. This would take the specialty away from the "real" classic and antique cars. I love going to shows and seeing the old cars because they are different, and they are survivors!

 

My Mustang, your mustang, and everyones mustang on here are all unique and are kind of hard to come by (at least I have only seen one other in my area in the past three years). People get excited when they see my car, it is a great way to start conversation and make more friends. This takes all the fun, knowledge and love of restoring the old classics away.

 

Idk, I just like the uniqueness of my car compared to the everyday driver. The rare, big money classics deserve to stay that way and hold their rightful place as just that- rare collectible classics. I don't like the idea that someone can just order a new one from the factory to some guy who couldn't care less about the "real" thing.

 

I think I am a little sensitive on this subject... ill stop now lol!

 

EDIT: I can say that I feel even if they created a brand new "old" car, it probably would never outlast the really thing :P

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For the most part I DO NOT like this idea. This would take the specialty away from the "real" classic and antique cars. I love going to shows and seeing the old cars because they are different, and they are survivors!

 

My Mustang, your mustang, and everyones mustang on here are all unique and are kind of hard to come by (at least I have only seen one other in my area in the past three years). People get excited when they see my car, it is a great way to start conversation and make more friends. This takes all the fun, knowledge and love of restoring the old classics away.

 

Idk, I just like the uniqueness of my car compared to the everyday driver. The rare, big money classics deserve to stay that way and hold their rightful place as just that- rare collectible classics. I don't like the idea that someone can just order a new one from the factory to some guy who couldn't care less about the "real" thing.

 

I think I am a little sensitive on this subject... ill stop now lol!

 

EDIT: I can say that I feel even if they created a brand new "old" car, it probably would never outlast the really thing :P

 

+1

 

Nothing can beat the smell and aura of an original old car!

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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I wont loose much sleep over it , the reproduction cost will be so high and rare, these new production cars will be so expensive.. Plus they already reproduce a lot of shelby's and daytona's and GT-40's " i dont see it hurting them cars value at all" Matter of fact seems too raise them thru the roof. even the kit cars are so tuff to get, sorry to say a lot of classics wil be reproduced and hopefully with such reproduction comes alot of parts..The fact is we are runing out of classics and a lot of people want them too, it will happen some way i am sure, but i don't think it will hurt the prices at all " or the cool factor" they still not original and will be very expensive recreations.

 

Go look at the modern jag reproductions " ugh" talk about ungodly prices, and still the classics hold on just fine. and i dont feel it takes away from the original at all. " just how i feel about it i guess" lol..If they reproduce our years " dout that will happen soon" it will be because it is too spendy to get a old one reliable to drive and enjoy...A new modern one " boss 429" could be out hot rodding the drag strip again, with out fear of ruining a classic. Scatter a new Boss 429 mite not suck as bad..lol, kinda sucks when a guy gets hold of such a super rare classic and crashes it messing around..A modern version mite help save some of the classics in the long run. and the classics will always be the original. New ones will always fall short of this, but will give some people a chance " who was not born in 1969" to get a brand new 1969 429 boss. Something no one can do now " unless they got a time machine" The high cost of making these will keep the original's still most wanted and loved.

 

BTW. if it was me, the reproduction better be very close, nothing modern needed if i was looking to buy one, but maybe they could make 2 versions..faithfull all original, or super modern mach 1 with mp3 and heated seats lmao ;)

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I am good with it. If someone wants modern drivetrain and suspension with old school looks it's better than having them hack up a perfectly good original Mach 1.

'Mike'

73 Convertible - 351C/4V CC heads/4bolt/forged flat tops/comp 270/rhodes/mallory unilite/tri-power/hookers/glasspacks/c6/3.50 limited slip/Gear Vendors/Global West sub frames, strut rods and shelby style traction bars/ Rear sway bar/tilt steering (not original)

 

Pics of modifications included in: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1973-convertible--3335]My Garage[/button]

 

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Wow - Good stuff! I totally understand everybody's thoughts on the whole idea, and even agree with everybody, for the most part (we're entitled to have mixed feelings, after all).

 

It kind of reminds me of taking a company like, say, Classic Restorations, to the next level. They currently take legally VIN'd vehicles, repair and restomod them to their concept (usually, '67-'68 fastbacks) and turn them into "Almost Eleanors" (from the 2nd movie, of course). Old classic look and appearance, with modern driveline, amenities, safety features, etc... for the paltry price beginning around $150K.

 

This bill would mean they could start with a Dynacorn chassis and essentially build a brand new car, rather than "repair before restomod." That could cut-down production time & cost, which could bring down the customer price as well.

 

I thinking that if Dynacorn were to offer a '71-'73 chassis at the same price as their other Mustang models, one could estimate initial cost for everything needed to build the "pre-roller" (just the uni-body and sheet metal... not including drivetrain, suspension, interior, glass, seals, finish trim & ornamentation, electronics, HVAC, et al) to be somewhere around the $25-30K range - then another $5-10K-ish for interior and electronics, $2-3K for glass & seals, and another $5-10K for the rest of the miscellaneous things. This doesn't even include paint, engine, transmission, suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, or labor in putting it all together... and we're already staring at $40-50K. I could see 'brand new classics' starting at upward of $75-100K, depending on what performance package the customer ordered... and it only goes up from there.

 

I don't think it would 'take all that much away' from our "real" classic cars... but it would give us a whole new level of 'un-clued-in individuals' when it comes to our cars. You think it's annoying when you encounter someone who calls ALL '71-'73s "Mach 1s?" How about the generation of kids who aren't familiar with the "real" classics and grow up only knowing about the 'modern classics?' "Your old car doesn't have a factory Coyote 5.0, so it's not a 'real' Mach 1." (very similar to all the people who weren't aware that "Gone in 60 Seconds" with Nicolas Cage was a remake - LOL)

 

Good stuff, people - keep it coming. I love hearing your thoughts and feelings about this.

Eric

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It would be unlikely to really affect anything. It is limited to a few thousand cars a year at most and they have to be faithful replica (in looks but not construction) with an EPA certified and compliant modern drivetrain. Basically the bill is to allow kit car and replica manufacturers sell complete turnkey cars instead of rollers. Very, very few kits or replica parts will interchange with the parts of the originals.

 

But if it passes, I'll take one of these please...

1975-Lancia-Stratos-HF-Stradale-by-Bertone.jpg.b3eb27c82e4b1241bdd20e26b60ea151.jpg

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It would be unlikely to really affect anything. It is limited to a few thousand cars a year at most and they have to be faithful replica (in looks but not construction) with an EPA certified and compliant modern drivetrain. Basically the bill is to allow kit car and replica manufacturers sell complete turnkey cars instead of rollers. Very, very few kits or replica parts will interchange with the parts of the originals.

 

But if it passes, I'll take one of these please...

 

 

Ohh ya, always had a thing for the stratos " even the cheap kit cars are not cheap"

 

Should of heard the uproar in my friends toy biz when hasbro said they was going to release new versions of the old star wars toys, some collectors where outraged and pissed at the idea..And Hasbro got tons of email from pissed off collectors and such.. Hasbro did it anyways, and guess what happend? The older vintage ones tripled in price over night, due to the fact they was original and the others where not ;) Reissue and reproduction will never be original. and will help our original cars be more coveted " i think"

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Oh man - sign me up for a Stratos, as well. ::thumb::

 

I know a lot of things would have to fall into place for anything to happen, and even then I think the consensus is that it will be [as usual] just one more thing that caters to the rich and affluent. So in all likeliness, we won't hear much about this or probably never see any "new" '71-'73s come out of this.

 

But if it were to take off, I totally get what you're saying, Mike. I can't see our cars tripling in value, or even really going up much at all like with the Star Wars toys - the action figures weren't really tracked by serial numbers or anything, and the difference in quality between the originals and new release toys is very noticeable.

 

I suspect that'll be the big difference - build quality. Like it or not, our cars were built by lots of people, in a hurry, and with older tools - the quality of the build varies slightly from car to car, and is over 40 years old, no matter how well-preserved the car might be. With new cars, the build process would most likely not be fully automated, but the builders would have to really hump it along, have a large staff, and some kind of assembly line process to keep up with the 500 unit-per-year limit (if demand was that high). Being able to pick-out the new one from the real deal would be pretty easy for anybody with some classic muscle car common sense.

 

Someone buying a "new" classic car, say a reproduction Boss 351 thinking to increase the value and flip for a profit could easily do so, fooling the "not-so-well-educated-in-Boss 351" buyer by passing off his "new" car as an immaculately-preserved survivor and command big bucks. We see it all the time on ebay and Craigslist with low-information buyers being taken by sneaky sellers. OK - so maybe a Boss 351 would be harder to pull off because it's the high-profile, "rare" find for our year models (along with the 429 Mach 1s), but I can imagine someone falling for the ol' "Ultra Rare, long lost, factory fuel-injected with overdrive 1973 Mach 1 X-code (for "Xperimental," of course). :D

Eric

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I think it would be a good thing because the "new" classics would have to have modern EPA certified engines...which means the new cars aren't classics at all. There will be no new real BOSS 351s but it would be cool to have a new BOSS 351 with a tweaked 2015 GT engine. Methinks it would be cheaper to buy the real BOSS 351 though.

 

I've thought for a long time now that our 71-73 mustangs are quite undervalued. I don't see our cars being at the front of the line for being "new" cars. There are a lot of other cars that the new manufacturers will target first. 65 stangs, cudas, Cobras, Ferraris, etc. Maybe one day 7123s but not anytime soon...supply and demand governs.

 

Demand for 7123s is growing and prices are increasing.

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Superperformance make some great cars and the Continuation GT40s are super nice. CAV Gt40s are better cars still. Also kit car manufactures are well established and have been making replica's for many years, such as the GTD40s, Cobras and the Hawk Stratos. The original cars were made in such small numbers it gives the public a chance to own something very special. However, I'm beginning to notice the big car companies are seeing an opportunity and jumping on the band wagon. Jaguar are running off a load of new E-type Light weights, to me this seems like a cynical marketing exercise. I hope this trend doesn't continue.

 

http://www.jaguar.co.uk/about-jaguar/jaguar-heritage/lightweight-e-type-restored.html

Mark

 

 

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Double edged sword here. It would be great if 71-73 bodies were released to help those of us that have rust so bad that your left with not much more than a vin plate, a steering wheel and memories. Most of the Dynacorn bodies released so far have been in the $15,000. range. Little high for my budget. But at least you would now have new sheet metal parts available that you've been at the mercy of the used market.

The "Turn Key" cars will probably be out of most of us "Commoners" price range also. I saw a 65-66 fastback Mustang with a Coyote 5.0 advertised around $150,000-$175,000. Don't remember the link to the manufactures site so I may be off a little on the price. Had all the "New" stuff just like a 2015 Mustang would have.

Don is right about supply and demand. Our cars will be behind the 65-70's for a while longer. So I don't see a complete 71-3 body yet. With the exception of Boss and J and R code cars, 71-3 bargain buys can still be found.

Steve

 

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!

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I would happily pay 30k for a brand new 1971 Mach 1 with all new technology under its skin and a reliable powerful motor and drivetrain with a factory warranty. Imagine if you could get into your 8 way power adjustable comfortable seats and listen to some factory XM radio with your 8 inch navigation telling you where to go without road noise and a cold as ice air conditioner blowing in your face. I would buy it over the 2015 in a heartbeat.

1_12_09_14_10_32_45.png

 

- Nik

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I do not think it would affect the collectible car market in a negative way if anything it would bring more interest to it.

 

There are already many reproductions in other collecting fields , clocks , toys , guns , etc and the people who want originals will always buy originals and people who want repops will tend to only buy those.

 

The added advertising and visability of the repros will probably bring new people into the collecting circuit who normaly may not have been exposed to it.

 

I like the idea and would even like to see it pushed further where all the modern regs were junked and manufacturers can make exact copies on demand of any car.

 

I would love to be able to purchase an exact 1937 Cord supercharged phaeton , made out of steel , with the front wheel drive , Luscomb aircraft motor , original type supercharger unit , etc right down to the vin continuing from where the last one produced left the factory in the 30s

1936-1937-cord-810-812-13.jpg.25299a43e12188ff78189ddebc1833a8.jpg

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I do not think it would affect the collectible car market in a negative way if anything it would bring more interest to it.

 

There are already many reproductions in other collecting fields , clocks , toys , guns , etc and the people who want originals will always buy originals and people who want repops will tend to only buy those.

 

 

 

Thumbs up, just how i feel about it too.

 

And when i said star wars before, that was just one of many examples , no matter how nice or better they are, they are still never original, Same with most guns, toys and so on like Machman said.

 

Colt repro's very spendy, but the originals can be untouchable at times. If they ever feel the need to repro a 71-73, it will just spark people off too start grabbing up the original's " which kinda will suck for people wanting to keep the hobby cheap" But it wont be cheap forever, our cars are starting to get up there, and supply just gets smaller every year for original shells.

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I feel the bill should be passed. If it is, the market will police itself. To our UK members, does anyone know what a "continuation" aluminum E -Type costs? It has to be an unholy amount of money. Chuck

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I would happily pay 30k for a brand new 1971 Mach 1 with all new technology under its skin and a reliable powerful motor and drivetrain with a factory warranty. Imagine if you could get into your 8 way power adjustable comfortable seats and listen to some factory XM radio with your 8 inch navigation telling you where to go without road noise and a cold as ice air conditioner blowing in your face. I would buy it over the 2015 in a heartbeat.

 

I think I pretty much have all that with all the restomod goodies I tossed in... without the factory warranty, of course. :whistling:

Eric

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If I had the money (and maybe time) I would build a Daytona Coupe (Factory Five's Type 65), but could never afford a new and complete reproduction. But just because they build one, or if I build one, the value of the originals will never decrease, and may actually go up, as many people have never seen one and they may become more sought after (by the very rich).

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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I do not think it would affect the collectible car market in a negative way if anything it would bring more interest to it.

 

There are already many reproductions in other collecting fields , clocks , toys , guns , etc and the people who want originals will always buy originals and people who want repops will tend to only buy those.

 

The added advertising and visability of the repros will probably bring new people into the collecting circuit who normaly may not have been exposed to it.

 

 

I completely agree with this post. ::thumb::

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I do not think it would affect the collectible car market in a negative way if anything it would bring more interest to it.

 

There are already many reproductions in other collecting fields , clocks , toys , guns , etc and the people who want originals will always buy originals and people who want repops will tend to only buy those.

 

The added advertising and visability of the repros will probably bring new people into the collecting circuit who normaly may not have been exposed to it.

 

:+1:

 

If (and a big IF) they actually produce 7173s I think it would ultimately drive up both the interest and value of our cars.

JHawk

J-Hawk-1-1.jpg

JHawk's Garage

 

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