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Help me find a torque convertor


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My trans swap project is stalled out due to back ordered parts.

another item holding me up is a replacement torque convertor.

 

I Pmed 'Precision transmissions' and the suggestion was going to a CJ torque convertor and installing a CJ flywheel with the 8 nut 9" bolt pattern.

 

a few issues for me with that route.

 

1) people have reported bad performance with this combo due to being out of the engine's power band and swapping to a lower rpm stall convertor later worked better for them.

 

2) I would need to change my flywheel, and to be perfectly honest i do not want to spend the extra money and time to do this. i have something that is proven to work just fine and with all the other issues i do not want to rock the boat.

 

3) I'm not sure i want the high stall of a CJ its hard to find specs that agree on the stall speed.

 

So this is where I'm at, there are so many torque convertors in various price ranges i have no idea what i should commit to.

 

i need a torque convertor with these specs:

 

C-6, 1.375 PILOT, 11 7/16" dia 4 BOLT PATTERN, 351C 2V converted to a 4V making about 290 HP engine.

 

I used what i believe was a stock stall convertor for the last 5 years, and it worked fine, my engine does have launch issues when cold, but once warmed up i can chirp and burn out the tires a little, i would not mind trying something with a higher stall but i do not want to go much crazier then stock, it is a street and traffic car with lots of highway driving.

 

My old convertor has bad mechanical damage to the input shaft area and it is filled with clutch junk and transmission pieces due to mechanical failure, so i cannot reuse it. there is no manufacturer on the old convertor just a parts number that i can not find anywhere: #120307

the old converter was also about 12-12.5" diameter(hard to measure).

 

So I'm stuck, i don't know what i should get, so i turn to you suggest something :).

 

 

thanks

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My trans swap project is stalled out due to back ordered parts.

another item holding me up is a replacement torque convertor.

 

I Pmed 'Precision transmissions' and the suggestion was going to a CJ torque convertor and installing a CJ flywheel with the 8 nut 9" bolt pattern.

 

a few issues for me with that route.

 

1) people have reported bad performance with this combo due to being out of the engine's power band and swapping to a lower rpm stall convertor later worked better for them.

 

2) I would need to change my flywheel, and to be perfectly honest i do not want to spend the extra money and time to do this. i have something that is proven to work just fine and with all the other issues i do not want to rock the boat.

 

3) I'm not sure i want the high stall of a CJ its hard to find specs that agree on the stall speed.

 

So this is where I'm at, there are so many torque convertors in various price ranges i have no idea what i should commit to.

 

i need a torque convertor with these specs:

 

C-6, 1.375 PILOT, 11 7/16" dia 4 BOLT PATTERN, 351C 2V converted to a 4V making about 290 HP engine.

 

I used what i believe was a stock stall convertor for the last 5 years, and it worked fine, my engine does have launch issues when cold, but once warmed up i can chirp and burn out the tires a little, i would not mind trying something with a higher stall but i do not want to go much crazier then stock, it is a street and traffic car with lots of highway driving.

 

My old convertor has bad mechanical damage to the input shaft area and it is filled with clutch junk and transmission pieces due to mechanical failure, so i cannot reuse it. there is no manufacturer on the old convertor just a parts number that i can not find anywhere: #120307

the old converter was also about 12-12.5" diameter(hard to measure).

 

So I'm stuck, i don't know what i should get, so i turn to you suggest something :).

 

 

thanks

http://www.tciauto.com/tc/c6-street-roddertm-torque-converterhtml this might work for you

2zdx09d.png

Yea,Tho i cruise through the valley of the shadow of rice,I will fear no Turbo,For Torque art with me.Thy rods and crankshaft,they comfort me. :D Robert [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=357]Visit My Garage[/button]

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Rock Auto has the flex plate for 50 bucks.

 

A quick google search turned up lwtrans eBay selling a 2000 to 2500 stall convertor for 200.00. His reviews are good and has been a vendor for some time so he should be OK.

 

Sorry this has become an oddessy for you but it should not be hard to resolve.

 

Paul of Mo

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This one has been hashed out alot, i have one of the small bell small original TQ's in mine..I have heard from many people " some experts" it was only 2400 rpm stall, i have read and see all the way up too 3,000 rpm's on cj's ...I know for a fact mine acted like a diffrent animal above 2800ish rpm's..I had no issues with low end power ever in town, i could break the tires loose at will, and Ford had to put some what of a high stall torque convertor, so it would not drop on its face at stop lights, them big 4v heads need some rpm, and good reason for a decently high stall on a 351 cleveland, or the gas will fail too atomize and fall out of the air and turn into big rain drops inside.

 

according too Ebay Engine facts, Ford's Small Block C6 - A Gem

 

Many 1972 -1974 351C-4V CJ engines were mated to Ford's C6 automatic transmission. Ford used a special high-stall (3000 RPM) torque converter (D20Z-7902-A) and flywheel (D1ZZ-6375-C).

 

That is the same little guy i have, but i am not sure on the real rpm's..Everyone has diffrent information, and i have not seen the official ford info on them. My gutt fealing is around 2500 is a good start for 4v heads " some mite disagree" my car was mild built and a little more cam " just a step up cam fomoco kit was installed when i broke into it" original 4300d..i think i was pushing around 280 mark.

 

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Ford-351-Cleveland-Engines-Key-Facts-Information-/10000000001410755/g.html

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I've never found anything from Ford concerning the "specific" stall speed of the CJ convertor. Having corresponded with a few people who owned an all stock 72 CJ, the general consensus is 2200-2400 RPM. As the torque of the engine goes up the stall speed will increase somewhat. The tci convertor suggested by ThunderTC may be a good fit for what you are wanting to achieve as it says it has a stall speed a few hundred RPM above stock. Please let us know how all of this works out. Good luck. Chuck

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thanks guys,

 

here is my feeling at the moment i'll get more feedback.

 

lets just assume on the low end the CJ is a 2200ish convertor.

 

so if i got closer to that range with a larger 11.5" bolt pattern then it shouldn't matter what converter i go with.

 

that said the TCIs are peaking my interest.

 

I pulled out my engine information and i've got a crane H260-2 cam

 

so the specs for the TCI street rodder are Advertised Camshaft Duration:

 

----------------------

Stock to 260°

 

Rear Gear Ratio:

Stock to 3.23

 

Engine Characteristics:

Smooth Idle, Stock Compression Ratio

 

Expected RPM Stall Speeds:

Small Block:1500 to 1700

Big Block:1700 to 1900

 

300-400 RPM increase in stall over stock

Quicker acceleration

Improved low end power & smoother running in stock or mildly modified engines

 

ok... i fit in that window so it seems.

 

-------------------------

then they also have

 

Saturday Night Special

 

Advertised Camshaft Duration:

Stock to 265°

 

Rear Gear Ratio:

Stock to 3.23

 

Engine Characteristics:

Smooth Idle, Stock Compression Ratio

 

Expected RPM Stall Speeds:

Small Block:1600 to 1800

Big Block:1800 to 2000

 

400-500 RPM increase in stall over stock

Quicker acceleration & improved low end power to run more smoothly

Fully streetable with no modifications required

 

its only about 100rpms higher then the Rodder version and closer to 2000 in the CJ range.

 

 

the rodder is: $199.00

the Saturday night special is : $279.00

 

So 80$ difference for what looks like 100 rpms on the stall speed. i seem to fall into the specs of either one for application.

 

I cannot find out if either one of these is a 11.5ish" bolt pattern however so i'm not sure.

 

the 80$ i can go either way, but i still don't know.

 

Thoughts, opinion?

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As above, I don't have any specific 351C/converter experience.

 

I did put a TCI Break-a-way behind a fresh 302/C4 in a '68 Torino coupe. Engine had a Crane Energizer 130052 (272 dur., .484 lift) cam, stock valves, iron 2V and exhaust manifolds with 2.75 rear gear. It would smoulder the right rear tire at will from a dig. With basic around town driving, the converter was kinda undetectable.

The converter is "rated" @ 1000 R's above stock, of course, depending on all of the other variables... which the variables are THE big key...

Pete - MotoArts Decals and Signs

'71 Sportsroof 351C-4V/4-speed - FINALLY under construction - no, wait, on hold again...

'90 Mustang 7-Up 5.0 ragtop, rolling beater - SOLD

'66 Sunbeam Tiger Mk.IA, survivor

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ok one turn off for the Saturday night special. it appears that it uses 7/16 bolts for the flywheel and you have to drill the flywheel holes out larger. i cannot confirm however, i'm reading info on different websites.

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ok one turn off for the Saturday night special. it appears that it uses 7/16 bolts for the flywheel and you have to drill the flywheel holes out larger. i cannot confirm however, i'm reading info on different websites.

 

if you cant find what you are looking for with TCI try B&M they have a Holeshot convertor one at 2000 and one at 2400

2zdx09d.png

Yea,Tho i cruise through the valley of the shadow of rice,I will fear no Turbo,For Torque art with me.Thy rods and crankshaft,they comfort me. :D Robert [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=357]Visit My Garage[/button]

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About 7 years ago I installed an AOD with TCI Streetfighter (with Lockup) TC in my 69 vert that has 3.55 gearing. 1800 - 1900 stall speed.

 

Looks like the newer version of the Streetfighter is the Sat night special. Personally, its just about the perfect setup for my vert (290 hp - 302 c.i.). Nice smooth shifting at that rpm.

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do you remember if it came with studs or bolts for the flywheel and if it was a an 11.5 -11 7/16 bolt pattern?

 

i cannot get a def answer from TCI on those 2 items.

 

various websites are listing totally different specs for the same part numbers.

 

i also realize there are a bunch of different models tci offers, there are lock up and non-lockup models. the lock up models are much more expensive.


HA amazingly i just heard from TCI:

 

"Yes, all of our torque converters for the Ford C6 transmission have the larger 11.5 bolt pattern, also these converters have a set of screw in studs and nuts that come with them."

 

 

hummmm.

 


OK I'm pulling the trigger on a a Saturday night special TCI 441600.

 

just purchased crossing fingers :)

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dimensions all match up, original flywheel nuts also fit.

 

i mic'd all the dimensions, pilot and input shaft all oem correct.

 

i test fit on transmission, went right on checked seating dimensions, spot on at 1-1/8" depth.

 

filled converter with Type F and installed on transmission tonight.

 

then found out i have an unrelated issue so i could not install the trans in the car, SO CLOSE GURRRR

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