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Has anyone heard of the FiTech PAC EFI unit?


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Thanks for the follow-up, Tony. I sent them another email and even mentioned that a few of us on this board were waiting to hear their response. Disappointing that they don't pay attention to their inbox but good to hear they gave you some feedback. Maybe we'll get lucky and it will work with the DS-1 module.

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I don't know how relevant this is, but the Edelbrock E-Street doesn't require distributor interface in order to work... but I'm also not saying that you can't connect it all up and have the FI ECU be the brains of the whole system or anything. I believe it will also "adapt" and might also only require a tach signal, which can be had from the '+' side of the coil.

 

I have DS-II, and I'm just planning on dropping the Edelbrock TBI unit in with its high-pressure 1-gal. reservoir (under hood) and run it with a returnless system with a 7psi electric 'lift' pump back by the tank (which is my current set-up with the Edelbrock 1406 Performer 4bbl). The only thing left after that is to run power to the ECU, and weld-in a bung for the O2 sensor - everything else is on-board the TBI unit.

 

I'm not tossing out a plug for Edelbrock, either - it ain't exactly cheap, after all. But Edelbrock always answers their phones... just sayin'. :cool: :whistling: :D

Eric

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With the FI Tech system it is also optional to use the timing control. My main questions to them were:

 

1. Is the timing control compatible with DS-I (like it is with an MSD box).

 

2. In the case it is not compatible, does the FI Tech ignition use variable dwell control (as is the case with DS-I).

 

I guess I should just call them.

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The FiTech setup would work without ignition control. That's a users choice. Actually, they just came out with a model that doesn't have the ignition control at all for a lower price, which makes sense for those that don't want to keep their current ignition control.

Since I was planing on upgrading my ignition I thought I might as well make it compatible with the brains of the EFI. I don't know there will be much of a performance advantage. However, the neat factor is that you can program your advance curve with the handheld interface.


With the FI Tech system it is also optional to use the timing control. My main questions to them were:

 

1. Is the timing control compatible with DS-I (like it is with an MSD box).

 

2. In the case it is not compatible, does the FI Tech ignition use variable dwell control (as is the case with DS-I).

 

I guess I should just call them.

 

Once I called them they were very good. Via email not so.

His response to question 1 was that they have not tested compatibility, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. They recommend the MSD like distributor (or the TSP per my post) because how easy is to lock the mechanical advance and to phase the rotor with MSD's phasable rotor add on. Not impossible with the Duraspark distributor, but it will require mods. I think you can weld or screw the weights in place. And for phasing you may have to modify the rotor with an adjustable slot or use the advance mechanism to phase it before locking it.

I did not ask question 2 so I am interested to hear about it. However, if one goes the MSD box route I think the variable dwell is taken care of with the multi spark.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I talked to FiTech on Thursday. According to the person I talked to, which seemed pretty knowledgeable, at this point they don't know if the ignition control works with a Duraspark ignition or distributor. He basically says that anything is possible, but they have not yet tested it. They obviously have done a lot of testing with MSD distributors and boxes. He recommended looking at Top Street Performance (TSP) distributors. Theirs are compatible with MSD at a lesser cost. He said that MSD's phasable rotor is compatible with TSP distributor, which makes the phasing adjustment a lot easier. Looking at TSP's website it seems that the JM6606 should be a good option No vacuum advance, but you don't need it when controlling the timing via the EFI unit. I guess you would use this distributor with MSD's Street Fire box. They also have a ready-to-run option but at a higher price. Have any of you heard or used TSP distributors?

 

I've been looking at wiring diagrams, trying to figure out if the Duraspark module can be used with FiTech's timing control. It appears there should be no problem using a Duraspark distributor (with advance locked) to trigger the timing function in the FiTech controller. The problem will be in trying to use the output from FiTech to trigger the Duraspark module. The output from the FiTech controller provides a ground, the same as points, to charge the coil, and when the ground is dropped the coil will fire.The only timing input on the Duraspark module is from the magnetic pickup in the Duraspark distributor and additional circuitry would likely be required to adapt the FiTech output to the Duraspark module input. The reason an MSD 6AI box works is because it has inputs for both points and magnetic pickups.

 

In any case, an external box is not needed with the FiTech controller.

 

A TFI distributor will not work, which is too bad because it has the advantage of not having to lock the advance mechanism. The TFI uses a hall effect switch, which requires a power source, and it appears that the FiTech controller does not supply any power on its 2-wire distributor connection.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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I talked to FiTech on Thursday. According to the person I talked to, which seemed pretty knowledgeable, at this point they don't know if the ignition control works with a Duraspark ignition or distributor. He basically says that anything is possible, but they have not yet tested it. They obviously have done a lot of testing with MSD distributors and boxes. He recommended looking at Top Street Performance (TSP) distributors. Theirs are compatible with MSD at a lesser cost. He said that MSD's phasable rotor is compatible with TSP distributor, which makes the phasing adjustment a lot easier. Looking at TSP's website it seems that the JM6606 should be a good option No vacuum advance, but you don't need it when controlling the timing via the EFI unit. I guess you would use this distributor with MSD's Street Fire box. They also have a ready-to-run option but at a higher price. Have any of you heard or used TSP distributors?

 

I've been looking at wiring diagrams, trying to figure out if the Duraspark module can be used with FiTech's timing control. It appears there should be no problem using a Duraspark distributor (with advance locked) to trigger the timing function in the FiTech controller. The problem will be in trying to use the output from FiTech to trigger the Duraspark module. The output from the FiTech controller provides a ground, the same as points, to charge the coil, and when the ground is dropped the coil will fire.The only timing input on the Duraspark module is from the magnetic pickup in the Duraspark distributor and additional circuitry would likely be required to adapt the FiTech output to the Duraspark module input. The reason an MSD 6AI box works is because it has inputs for both points and magnetic pickups.

 

In any case, an external box is not needed with the FiTech controller.

 

A TFI distributor will not work, which is too bad because it has the advantage of not having to lock the advance mechanism. The TFI uses a hall effect switch, which requires a power source, and it appears that the FiTech controller does not supply any power on its 2-wire distributor connection.

 

You are correct. That's what I see with the Duraspark as well. If one wanted to really use the DS I am sure the signals can be made compatible by someone knowledgeable in electronics. I will venture to say that because the MSD box already has both inputs it should have a way to convert them internally. Maybe it will be a good idea to open an old MSD box and hack the "conversion" circuit, if it can be separated.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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An interesting thing about old MSD boxes, they were based on Duraspark, so there should definitely be some similarities.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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We need the electronic gurus of this board to chime in......

If I had an old MSD box I won't be afraid to open it and play with it, but I don't.

Any information about the voltage/signal of the magnetic pickup? I assume this is a small voltage signal. The points signal is pretty straight forward. It's just an on/off signal at battery voltage.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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The voltage from the magnetic pickup (in electronic terminology it's a variable reluctance sensor) varies in relation to the speed the distributor is turning, from 3 or 4 volts to as high as 50 volts. It's an analog alternating sinusoidal waveform, sweeping back and forth from negative to positive.

 

On the other hand, the TFI produces a square waveform, from 0 to +12 volts.

 

The output to the coil from any of the controllers provides a ground (to charge the coil) and an open that collapses the primary windings around the secondary windings to provide the high voltage impulse to the plugs.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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The voltage from the magnetic pickup (in electronic terminology it's a variable reluctance sensor) varies in relation to the speed the distributor is turning, from 3 or 4 volts to as high as 50 volts. It's an analog alternating sinusoidal waveform, sweeping back and forth from negative to positive.

 

On the other hand, the TFI produces a square waveform, from 0 to +12 volts.

 

The output to the coil from any of the controllers provides a ground (to charge the coil) and an open that collapses the primary windings around the secondary windings to provide the high voltage impulse to the plugs.

Is there a way to have a transistor and/or relay activated with the magnetic pickup signal to open/close (square wave) the 12v line?

 

Edit: As I think about this a little more it may not make sense since the point when the trigger occurs may vary depending on RPM, which will affect advance and dwell. It feels like it will open another can of worms. I am sure there is a way it can be done, but I am not going to go in this direction. I will go without a DS module and will eventually add a MSD box.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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This setup looks like the MSD Atomic setup. One thing that I would recommend is to set up the system to control timing. With my system I use both centrifugal and vacuum advance as this works well with daily driving. Just going centrifugal works great when the motor is always running in the higher rpm bands but you will not be very happy with city driving. Usually you will experience stumbles when accelerating from a stop slowly until centrifugal advance kicks in. Haven't had a chance to look but does the Fitech system allow you to simulate vacuum advance?

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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This setup looks like the MSD Atomic setup. One thing that I would recommend is to set up the system to control timing. With my system I use both centrifugal and vacuum advance as this works well with daily driving. Just going centrifugal works great when the motor is always running in the higher rpm bands but you will not be very happy with city driving. Usually you will experience stumbles when accelerating from a stop slowly until centrifugal advance kicks in. Haven't had a chance to look but doues the Fitech system allow you to simulate vacuum advance?

 

The ignition control takes care of all the advance. They instruct you to lock the distributor, which cancels both vacuum and centrifugal.

I just talked to their tech and he confirmed this. Also, for others reading this thread, he suggest first installing and fine tuning the system with no ignition control. Then, add ignition control once all is running. It makes sense, since it simplifies any troubleshooting.


With the FI Tech system it is also optional to use the timing control. My main questions to them were:

 

1. Is the timing control compatible with DS-I (like it is with an MSD box).

 

2. In the case it is not compatible, does the FI Tech ignition use variable dwell control (as is the case with DS-I).

 

I guess I should just call them.

 

I just talked their tech person and it does not control the dwell. It just signals the coil when to fire. If you have the MSD box, then it takes care of it.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I agree with the tuning without timing control initially until you get the motor running the way you like.

 

When you lock out the distributor and set up timing control all ECU's control timing. I haven't had time to read the setup instructions yet and it could be different from what I am using but usually you will have to specify your timing advance curve. For example this is what I had to do:

Program my base timing to be 14 degrees

Program Centrifugal advance to provide 34 degrees total starting at 900 rpm and all in at 2500 rpm.

Program it to simulate Ported vacuum advance of 10 degrees. Unless you are doing a lot of strip/drag runs (rpm comes up quickly) you won't want just centrifugal advance.

 

Make sure that your system can accept program changes to the timing curve settings, all motors run differently so you can't depend on just base setup. Just trying to save you headaches and money here. I help on the MSD forum and I see many ready to put their carbs back on and saying it was a waste of $$$. I will say that once an EFI system is dialed in you won't want to go back to a carb.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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Just for the heck of it, if you're going to run an MSD I would first use FiTech timing control only, then after running for a while, connect the MSD, just to see if there is any noticeable difference. Even though they're not using variable dwell control it may not need it. It's not like points where they have to stay open just because of the cam and required gap, which shortens the dwell time, and they probably already provide maximum dwell time.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Just for the heck of it, if you're going to run an MSD I would first use FiTech timing control only, then after running for a while, connect the MSD, just to see if there is any noticeable difference. Even though they're not using variable dwell control it may not need it. It's not like points where they have to stay open just because of the cam and required gap, which shortens the dwell time, and they probably already provide maximum dwell time.

Yes.... once i do it i want to take one step at the time. It wont be until summer.

I will first rebuild the carb, run it carbed for a little and then go to EFI..... one step at a time. I will keep the carb and original ignition around. That way I would know all is working well in case i want or need to revert.

 

1971 M-code Mach 1

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I just purchased their $800 400hp GoStreet system and their Fuel Command Center for my F-100. It does not have timing control but I dont care. I have my distributor curved just the way I like it and I'm already running a MSD ignition. Backordered until the end of April!

 

Holley is due to release a comparable system soon to try and get their foot in the door of the cheap $999 EFI system market. Looks surprisingly similar to the FiTech unit.

 

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/

Mike

__________________________________

Black 1985 GT

Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1

Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's

Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

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There are a couple of great articles in the new issue of Mustang Monthly, installing a FAST multiport in a '73 Mach 1, and Holley TBI in an older model.

 

If you don't already have it, you might pick up a copy and check it out.

Eric

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There are a couple of great articles in the new issue of Mustang Monthly, installing a FAST multiport in a '73 Mach 1, and Holley TBI in an older model.

 

If you don't already have it, you might pick up a copy and check it out.

Not to get off too much in a tangent, how do you like the Mustang Monthly magazine. I have been contemplating subscribing to it. Are there enough articles about the classic mustangs?

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Yeah... about that. :whistling: :shootself: :angel:

 

OK - without re-opening the can of worms [as I did this time last year], Mustang Monthly is full of lots of good information about classic Mustangs... if you like Mustang IIs and '70-and-older Classic Mustangs, that is. The new editor Rob Kinnan (of course, he's been there about a year, so the newness has worn off) loves M-IIs, and continues the tradition of barely acknowledging the existence of '71-'73s. He logged onto this site and made the promise that more '71-'73 coverage was coming, and I suppose he wasn't lying because there were 3 articles mentioning '71-'73s last year, as opposed to the traditional 2. It is what it is.

 

If you like '67 fastbacks, Shelbys, and '65s with pizza-cutter wheels, subscribe now! Otherwise, I'd pick up a couple of issues from a book store or read their online content (by month, of course).

Eric

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  • 6 months later...

Reopening my old thread. I have read about a lot of problems with FiTech's Fuel Command Center. I order it two months ago but it has been in backorder for a long time. I think they are redesigning it to take care of the issue with fuel return. Now I have been reading about the RobbMc Powersurge pump/tank system, http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/powersurge.html

This one has great reviews and is cheaper than the FCC. I am considering canceling my FCC order and purchasing the RobbMc.

Any experience with the RobbMc Powersurge?

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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  • 2 weeks later...

No experience with the FCC or other surge tank, but I did install a Go Street 400hp unit on my dune buggy last spring and have been very impressed with it so far. It pulls better down low and in the mid range and seems to give me more on the top end (it used to be maxed out around 4500 RPM or so and now pulls strong to around 5000-5500). I installed a tank with a sump and an inline fuel pump and that works great (I realize that's not as easy on a car, but wanted to mention what i'm working with ).

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My Edelbrock E-Street supports returnless, but you have to buy a surge tank as well - the hardest part IMHO is where the heck to put the surge tank (I'm thinking about relocating the windshield washer reservoir to the firewall or somewhere else.

 

I ain't gonna lie - it's pretty pricey... especially, since it's still in the box in the garage. :whistling:

Eric

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I think the ideal location is by the charcoal camister. You will have to remove or relocate. My idea is to remove the charcoal canister and use the vent line for the surge pump - it needs one. I am thinking then to vent the tank in the back just in case the vent line gets to much fuel in it.

 

1971 M-code Mach 1

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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The surge pump is pretty big - it holds a gallon of fuel... and I'm not sure right above the header is the best place for it. ;) :D

 

Besides, I think it's so tall, the hood hinge might whack it.

 

I guess I could make a heat shield or something... :chin:

Eric

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Back in the 90s I put a Holley projection TBI system on a dodge 360 engine. Worked out pretty well, got to think these newer ones are much better.

 

Now I just use the factory set up from my donor vehicle and make all the wiring changes rather than go with an add on system. But I can see these being quite useful where you want to keep a non fuel injection engine .

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