New member Introduction with 351 C 2V problem

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El_Brown_Jefe

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Location
Mn, USA
My Car
1972 Mustang Coupe, 351 C 2V
Background: Hello all, My name is Victor. I bought this car back in August 16, 2014 at the age of 17. I bought it from a retired man in his late fifties that needed the money to go on a trip with his wife and he said he was getting too old to restore the car. Now don't get me wrong this man practically cried when he sold this car to me. I spoke with the owners (the man and his wife) back and forth for about 1 month 1/2 before buying the vehicle from them asking them questions such as; why they were selling it and so on. It was not running when i bought it but the man said that the issue was minor and it was just a matter of replacing the fuel lines and gas tank, and troubleshooting to get it running. He seemed completely honest with everything so I went ahead and bought the car since it was in such a great shape. I was finishing high school at the time, and in the fall I played football (which kept me from working on it) turning 18 the following month in September I was only getting older:). Then along came the Minnesota winter:dodgy: but I made sure to have it stored in a garage which ended up being my buddies. I had to ask every time i wanted to work on it since it was in his house. My dad came for my graduation( in May), and helped me get my 351 in running condition, which astonishingly the engine ran STRONG (YEAH BABBY!). Then came all those new problems that we are all too familiar with that pop up that weren't there before. Recently I just took it into the local mechanic shop which they have worked on 351 C before. I had them rebuild my carburetor and adjust the timing of the vehicle so it runs smooth now like it should.

Problem: plain and simple white smoke is emitting from the top hose that is connected to the radiator and also from what seems to be the distributor cap area (spark plugs are new and so is the wires not the cap though). Now I know that same hose runs along that whole that area and I think it ends up connecting to which I thought was the fan (I could be wrong.)

Question: What could be causing such issues? Now before I took the car to the shop I had replaced the transmission fluid right when I got it running ( back in May of this year) but for some reason I didn't think about checking the coolant level and I hadnt changed the oil that was in there before.( I work road construction and was gone almost all summer and fall) The oil was "okay" nothing odd about it just old. Now I was guilty of getting way too excited of having a running 72 Mustang so I drove it to different garages to keep it out of the atmosphere (its sanded) I finally got my own garage ( I live in an apartment) so I finally drove it to my garage then thats when I checked the coolant level in the radiator (About mid last month; November.) It was BONE DRY not a single drop was in there and by this time my engine had started to emit the white smoke. I am aware of the damage I either caused or could've caused and it makes me want to bang my head against the wall for letting it happen. Hoping that adding coolant to the radiator would eliminate this problem I took it in to the shop to get the carb rebuilt and told them to change my oil and check the cause of the smoke so they ran a pressure test for the radiator. They found no leaks so thats a good sign but they also said they didnt see the smoke but thats because they never let my car run inside the garage due to it having an exhaust leak. The car runs almost flawlessly its just I dont want to drive it until I get this fixed so I wont cause any extensive damage. I recently recorded a video thinking Id show it to the mechanics because im thinking about taking it in. But before I pay them some amount of change they ask for I thought Id let the mechanics on here know my life;) I will post the video and hopefully some of you managed to keep your thinking caps on by the end of this article :chin::D If anyone is willing help a fellow enthusiast out that would be awesome :thankyouyellow:

Special Note: Im thinking it could be my thermostat or maybe the water pump:chin::huh: *MY alternator light is also on in my vehicle and the engine covers and hose that connect to the radiator seem to get super hot really fast, the car has a heater block and it connects to what seems to be a core of some sort that gets really hot as well.

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Welcome from Oregon.

The only common factor between overheating and the alternator is the fan belt, makes sure it isn't loose or missing.

If the belt is OK you have two different issues.

Make sure the radiator is full, leave the radiator cap loose, and start it and let it warm up and see what happens. Stay back in case it starts spewing coolant. If it's the thermostat causing it to over heat the upper radiator hose will stay relatively cool, but the lower hose will get hot after it starts boiling.

For the alternator it could be the wiring or either the alternator or regulator. Make sure the connector is on the regulator and the wires are connected to the back of the alternator. If they are take the alternator to Autozone or other auto parts store and have them check the alternator. Be sure to disconnect the ground cable from the battery before you try to remove or tighten any wires on the alternator.

 
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::welcome:: from Luxembourg, Europe.

Others will be more knowledgeable when it comes to your problem, so I'll not chime in on that. :)

 
Does the temp gauge run more on the warm side than the cool side?

I'll bet you have the wrong thermostat (A Windsor thermostat, rather than a Cleveland thermostat).

Here's the difference between the OE Cleveland and Windsor thermostats, Cleveland on the right):

thermostat.jpg


This is how the Cleveland thermostat works with the bypass:

images


Here is the difference between modern Windsor and Cleveland thermostats (Cleveland on the right):

IMG_0255.JPG


The Pantera guys discovered a way to make this:

Clevelandthermostat_zps8ed79a99-1.jpg


Work better by replacing the stock Cleveland bypass (on the right) with a restrictor plate (on the left):

10003234_2.jpg


What happens is the bypass restrictor plate (on the left) completely blocks off the bypass, forcing the coolant to pass through the thermostat and recirculate through the engine when it's closed, and out to the radiator when it opens. They report that it takes longer for the engine to 'warm up,' but the cooling benefits greatly outweigh those issues.

I was having cooling issues with mine (since the local auto parts store kept giving me Windsor thermostats), and recently performed the Pantera modification to my .060" overbored 351C-2V. Prior to the modification, I was losing coolant and the engine was running hot (between the "A" and "L" on the "NORMAL" scale of the temp gauge) - the temperature gauge hasn't been above the space between the "O" and "R" since.

Now - is it white "smoke," or "steam?" There's a big difference. If it's no kidding smoke, you have an issue with burning some oil... a lot of it. If it's steam, then yeah - that's where your coolant is going - boiling away. Chances are, you have a breach in your water pump gasket, thermostat housing gasket is failing, a hose that's not tightly sealed (heater or radiator), or possibly (small possibility) that a head gasket is failing close to that area (again, small possibility based on the location of the steam/smoke).

I would start small by checking the hoses to ensure they are all tightly sealed. Then inspect the thermostat housing and water pump perimeter to ensure there is not seepage of coolant through the gasket. Those are the relatively simple things to check for. If you wind up pulling the thermostat, check to make sure you have a Cleveland thermostat - if not, either get one or look into doing the Pantera mod. Everything after that starts getting expensive and/or time consuming.

Hope this helps!

 
Thanks for all the replies and help! I was just about to give in and take it to the shop and let them deal with the headache. Im going to go check a few things myself such as Mister 4x4 mentioned and Don c as well. Thanks guys ill update you when I find something or if I find nothing.

 
I suspect you may need a water pump, you probably need fresh radiator hoses and belts and a thermostat-If you don't have a blown head gasket, these items should get you on track. You can pay a shop, or do it yourself with simple hand tools and some patience. Total for the parts should be under $75 bucks. If it still starts and drives, then an auto parts store can test the battery and the alternator. Belt may have been slipping and that "smoke" might have been steam from the overheated and leaking cooling system.

If you have never done this work before, don't panic-it is really very easy-just takes a few hours.

 
I suspect you may need a water pump, you probably need fresh radiator hoses and belts and a thermostat-If you don't have a blown head gasket, these items should get you on track. You can pay a shop, or do it yourself with simple hand tools and some patience. Total for the parts should be under $75 bucks. If it still starts and drives, then an auto parts store can test the battery and the alternator. Belt may have been slipping and that "smoke" might have been steam from the overheated and leaking cooling system.

If you have never done this work before, don't panic-it is really very easy-just takes a few hours.
I have decided to do this since it all eventually does need to get replaced Im just hoping out of all those replacements one of them hits the nail on the head and fixes this problem I am having! Thanks !:goodpost:

 
If they pressure tested it and it was okay you might be lucky and it isn't a head gasket. There are a few questions from above that would be helpful to know.

Most specific, is it white smoke or is it steam? And does it start 'smoking' right after you start the engine or does it take a few minutes?

If the engine is running good that's a good sign. Probably worse case is a head gasket and warped cyl head.

 
If you run the engine with the radiator cap removed and you see bubbles, you have a blown head gasket or in rare instances a cracked block- since you said your oil looked good, I am assuming that your problem is in the cooling system. When a water pump is failing it will leak through what is often called a weep hole on the underside. if you take a small inspection mirror and a flashlight you should be able to see signs of it leaking or having previously leaked in the form of corrosion and discoloration.

Tool wise all you really need is a 3/8 ratchet set with SAE (inch) sockets, a gasket scraper, a pry bar a large screwdriver or whatever for retightening the belts, and a catch pan for draining the antifreeze.

I always unhook the battery, then, basically, drain the radiator; remove the radiator hoses; Unbolt the thermostat housing, pluck out the old thermostat, the fan shroud is just clipped into place on the bottom and two small bolts at the top; Remove the bolts, give it a tug upward and it will come free. Move it towards the engine and you can unbolt the fan. Unbolt the lower alternator bracket and the water pump should be accessible. If the bolts are overly tight, spray them with a good penetrating solution like like Kroil or ATF mixed with acetone. (If they are still stubborn, you can heat them with a torch, but the fuel line runs right over the top of the water pump, so if you have to try this it is best to remove the line at the fuel pump and the carburetor and cap those off and vent the area well for a while before using a torch.) I have manual steering and aftermarket air, but I don't think any options get in the way other than having to remove the belts. loosen all the bolts holding the water pump wiggle it until it breaks free-wiggle means easy effort-prying on it or using screwdrivers to pull it away will distort the timing cover and you will have a bigger job on your hands. You may need to use a putty knife or something similar, but don't use anything that will cause damage to the timing cover. When it is loose remove the bolts (I think it is 11 off the top of my head) and pull the water pump off.

Clean all the old gasket and sealant off of the cover, the thermostat housing, the block at the thermostat housing (first stuff a rag in to keep your system free of crap) Once all that is done, reverse the process using new gaskets and proper sealants and tighten everything down. The water pump may come with two gaskets, one is correct, look at the old one if you have any doubts.

Remember--Smaller fasteners mean less strength, don't get overly aggressive or you will break off stuff and have a bigger job. Let it sit long enough for any sealers you used to cure, refill the cooling system with water and run the engine until the thermostat opens (You can feel the water flowing through the upper hose) Check for leaks and if none, drain it and put in fresh coolant and run it again. If the coolant looks brown or has any significant amount of crap in it, you'll want to do a complete flush.

If you run into problems stop and come post here- there are a lot of knowledgeable people on the site- and then there is me. lol

Buying a Chilton's or some similar manual is a good idea, but that covers what you are getting into.

 
Sweet! Another H-code owner!!

Welcome from Canada

Marco/Andrew bros

 
Welcome from Oregon.

The only common factor between overheating and the alternator is the fan belt, makes sure it isn't loose or missing.

If the belt is OK you have two different issues.

Make sure the radiator is full, leave the radiator cap loose, and start it and let it warm up and see what happens. Stay back in case it starts spewing coolant. If it's the thermostat causing it to over heat the upper radiator hose will stay relatively cool, but the lower hose will get hot after it starts boiling.

For the alternator it could be the wiring or either the alternator or regulator. Make sure the connector is on the regulator and the wires are connected to the back of the alternator. If they are take the alternator to Autozone or other auto parts store and have them check the alternator. Be sure to disconnect the ground cable from the battery before you try to remove or tighten any wires on the alternator.
@ belts, had an after market AC installed as well changing intake manifolds and ever since, its been squealing, and even after replaceing a cracked bolt holding the alternator, still squeals. Anyother ideas on that? I really want to run it but......
 
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