Dust/Dirt seal on Pitman Arm Post

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Stanglover

Stanglover

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1971 Mustang Mach 1, M code, 4 speed.
Hi all, I'm looking for the Dust/ Dirt Seal that is used on the pitman arm between the post and drag link on my 71 power steering. The factory part number is C4ZA-3A196-A. sorry no picture. I am currently rebuilding all the steering components. The new pitman arm just has a neoprene gasket, but I feel the proper dirt seal would be better. I looked at NPD and CJ Pony and could not find one. I also looked at a link on this subject on the forum, but without luck. I'm hoping maybe someone knows where this part can be found. Any help here would be most welcome.

Thanks,

Geoff.

 
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Folks, I think I just answered my own question. I Googled the C4ZA.... and found Concours Mustang Forum which lead me to Virginia Classic Mustangs. They list the part as SU1651 @$4.95. I emailed them to confirm If this IS the part I'm looking for and to confirm stock. It's called a grease seal and is listed for 65-66 Mustangs with manual steering for both pitman arm and idler arm, but also list for '70 manual steering. Why not PS??? The seal I have was on my original manual pitman arm and I used it when I converted. Makes no sense to me that it wouldn't be used on PS cars.

Virginia Classic Mustang's phone number is 540-896-2695 or go to their website.

Geoff.

 
Folks, I think I just answered my own question. I Googled the C4ZA.... and found Concours Mustang Forum which lead me to Virginia Classic Mustangs. They list the part as SU1651 @$4.95. I emailed them to confirm If this IS the part I'm looking for and to confirm stock. It's called a grease seal and is listed for 65-66 Mustangs with manual steering for both pitman arm and idler arm, but also list for '70 manual steering. Why not PS??? The seal I have was on my original manual pitman arm and I used it when I converted. Makes no sense to me that it wouldn't be used on PS cars.

Virginia Classic Mustang's phone number is 540-896-2695 or go to their website.

Geoff.
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Just a short addendum. I was looking through a box of bits and pieces for the car and found yet another C4ZA grease seal. This can only mean that it was factory fitted to BOTH power and manual steering as it could not have come from any other source. The PS box & pump I picked up for a song, came with the (bent) drag link still attached.

I have not yet got a reply from Virginia Classic Mustangs, but I am sure they have the same part, or close reproduction.

 
I just purchased a piece that is suppose to be a replacement. I don't have time right now, but I"ll take a picture of the original and replacement and post later if no one does it before than... it is a Daniel carpenter piece listed as C5ZZ-3352-S. It is not the same as the original on mine which is C4ZA-3A196-A but is close enough. I may have to make the opening a tad bigger in the new piece so that it will fit "pretty good". It will do the job...

 
I just purchased a piece that is suppose to be a replacement. I don't have time right now, but I"ll take a picture of the original and replacement and post later if no one does it before than... it is a Daniel carpenter piece listed as C5ZZ-3352-S. It is not the same as the original on mine which is C4ZA-3A196-A but is close enough. I may have to make the opening a tad bigger in the new piece so that it will fit "pretty good". It will do the job...
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Hi Pastel, I'm looking for the same part - can't find it on the Virginia Classic Mustang page listed under C4ZA... advice?

 
I just purchased a piece that is suppose to be a replacement. I don't have time right now, but I"ll take a picture of the original and replacement and post later if no one does it before than... it is a Daniel carpenter piece listed as C5ZZ-3352-S. It is not the same as the original on mine which is C4ZA-3A196-A but is close enough. I may have to make the opening a tad bigger in the new piece so that it will fit "pretty good". It will do the job...
Click to expand...
Hi Pastel, I'm looking for the same part - can't find it on the Virginia Classic Mustang page listed under C4ZA... advice?
Click to expand...
 Patel Blue has gone as that user.

No doubt you have seen the other post on this subject, Pretty much the same as this thread and still the same problem, no exact reproduction part made.

Geoff.

 
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I'll post this in both threads. For the heck of it, I just went to Virginia Classic Mustangs and entered the sku SU-1651. That is the part I bought (but can't find). From the picture shown, this does NOT fit over the pitman arm, but merely sit on the top between the arm and drag link, so basically, it just sit there. Maybe this is the difference between the 67-70 and the 71-73's. As mentioned before, Rackerm's picture shows the seal appearing to be fitted OVER the pitman arm. I can't be sure on that as I no longer have an original pitman arm. Perhaps someone else can confirm yes or no.

Regardless, there has to be something better than that stupid felt ring seal that the Rare Parts one has for our cars. It may however, come down to what ever works, works.

Geoff.

 
As we have two very similar posts going on this subject at the same time, I'll continue here as it was my post initially.

I found that illusive so-called replacement seal and I did buy it from NPD. It too is listed as 67-70 #3A352-1A, SU1651 on VCM.

There is no way on this earth that it is the same part, only uncompressed. The dimensions do not stack up to support that theory.

The original outside is 1.625" diam. and the replacement is 1.550".  The internal major diameters are not easy to measure accurately, but clearly there is about .100" difference. The center hole has about .085" difference. In short, there are too many discrepancies for it to be represented as the same.

So, does anybody make the correct seal???? If so I'd love to find out before I look at making my own.

Here are a couple of pictures. The difference is obvious.

Also, just thought of this, didn't the 67-70 have bump power steering I think it was called, not a Saginaw manual or 800 PS box? Is that why they're different? Please correct me if I'm wrong





2012 vw golf 0 60

 
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You are correct, the earlier ones had the separate (external) valve and ram. Bump power steering is a good way to describe the way it works.
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 Thanks Don. I thought that is what my friend with the 70 Boss 302 called it. So my ears weren't clogged!!

Geoff.

 
It's been a few days since the last post up, lots looking but no-one has answered if there IS an exact replacement seal for the C4ZA-3A196-A? This seal obviously has been around a long time and used on many pitman arms, not just the 71-73's.

Also does anyone have a picture of an original pitman arm from a 71-73 Saginaw PS box WITHOUT the seal attached? As I said, the ones I had were total junk and that's where they went before I paid attention to that seal area. The Rare Parts repop arm I have does not look the same as in Rackerm's picture, but I'm thinking the 67-70 seal might be a suitable replacement if it just sits on top of the arm as it appears in the picture on VCM's website for sku SU-1651.

 Until I can go work on the car in Spring, I can't verify that it will work myself. So, can anyone else in the same situation assist me here?

I have the ability to make tooling to reproduce a seal, but finding some raw rubber material would be the biggest challenge. Costs might be prohibitive, so if the SU1651 or the 3A-352-1A from NPD does the job, good enough.

Geoff.

 
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Geoff,

Here you go.  Clean one is my 71 with the “wrong” seal.  Crusty photos are off my 73 parts car.
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Click to expand...
 Ah, so that's what it looks like. The lip of the seal just goes over the edge of the casting, whereas the repop seal would just sit on top as I thought. I was thinking that the top edge of the casting may have been machined to locate the seal, but it looks like it relies on the casting to locate it. The Rare Parts arm looks like your top picture, which differs from the original in shape.

Thanks for taking the time to take and post the pics.

Geoff.

 

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