351c cam choice.

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Odmark

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My Car
1972 Mercury Cougar
Hello! Im starting a new thread for this subject.

Im looking at cam choices since i need to replace the one in my cleveland.

Since im not so good on cams i would need some help.

First i would like to know about the cam provided in this rebuild kit: http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?nav=item.view&id=151254330507&alt=web

The info provided is this: "NEW camshaft Street Class II - VALVE LIFT: .512/.538; DUR @ .050": 214/224; LOBE C/L 112"

How good is this as a street cam? Compared to my other choice, wich is the edelbrock performer cam.

Duration at 0.006" Lift: Intake: 282° Exhaust: 292°

Duration at 0.050" Lift: Intake: 204° Exhaust: 214°

Lift at Cam: Intake: 0.280" Exhaust: 0.295"

Lift at Valve: Intake: 0.484" Exhaust: 0.510"

Timing at 0.050" lift: Open Close

Intake: 5° ATDC 29° ABDC

Exhaust: 44° BBDC 10° BTDC

Centerlines: Lobe Separation - 112° Intake Centerline - 107°

Thank you in advance :D

 
You will need to provide more information about your car to get meaningful advice on cam selection.

2V or 4V cleveland?

Have any modifications been done to the engine or is it totally stock?

Manual or automatic transmission? If auto does it have the stock converter?

Rear gear ratio?

 
Its a 2V cleveland, right now had a 4v intake that some previous owner installed, going to swap that out for a 2V four barell intake. Edelbrock 600 4bbl carb.

HEI ignition.

It has an automatic, not sure what but i think it is a C6. I believe the converter is stock yes.

Also no idea about gear ratio but most likeley stock since there is hard to come by anything else in sweden if you dont want to get ruined.

 
Its a 2V cleveland, right now had a 4v intake that some previous owner installed, going to swap that out for a 2V four barell intake. Edelbrock 600 4bbl carb.

HEI ignition.

It has an automatic, not sure what but i think it is a C6. I believe the converter is stock yes.

Also no idea about gear ratio but most likeley stock since there is hard to come by anything else in sweden if you dont want to get ruined.
If the choice is between the 2 cams listed use the 204/214 @ .050".

 
Hello Odmark!

Here's what I went with in my 351C-2V, and it's making somewhere around 400hp.

-- .060" bores w/9.5:1 Keith Black hypereutectic flat-top pistons

-- CompCams Roller cam 270/270 w.566" lift (215/215 @.050" on 110 lobes)

-- CompCams Roller "Everything" (1.73 Rockers, lifters, rods, rod guides)

-- Crane Cams screw-in 7/16" rocker studs

-- Edelbrock Performer intake, Edelbrock Performer 600CFM carb

-- 3-angle valve job & hardened seats (rebuilt the stock 2V heads)

-- Chrome 'stock' oil pan, Edelbrock valve covers

-- Holley "Black" electric fuel pump

-- Duraspark ignition w/Accel Super Coil & 8mm wires

-- Hooker Competition Ceramic-coated Long-Tube Headers

-- Pype 2.5" stainless exhaust w/X-pipe - Pypes Street Pro mufflers

Everything was purchased through Summit Racing, which I believe will ship overseas and is more reputable than an ebay vendor.

CompCams K32-421-8 is a kit, but work just that much better with some additional things, such as the other things I outlined above:

- roller rockers

- screw-in rocker studs

This is just one recipe, of course. I don't think you could go wrong with the Edelbrock Performer Cam, to compliment the carb and intake.

Hope that helps - keep us updated with what you come up with.

 
Are you using headers and dual exhaust, iron manifolds and dual exhaust, or iron manifolds and single exhaust? If you are using headers and dual exhaust with 2V heads, there is no need for a split in the intake and exhaust durations. With manifolds and dual exhaust perhaps 4-6 degrees more exhaust duration. With manifolds and single exhaust perhaps 8-10 degrees more exhaust duration. The compression ratio also plays a large part in camshaft selection. The octane of the fuel to be used also plays a large role in camshaft selection. If you want to be happy with the end product, and save the cost of doing somethings twice, take the time to determine exactly what the components of the car are now, and what your realistic goals for the car are. Then, build a list of well match parts to achieve your goals.

If you decide to use 4V heads, the cam characteristics are quite different due to the exhaust to intake flow ratio being lower than the 2V head. A split duration and lift cam is advised when using the 4V head. About 10-14 degrees more exhaust duration and .010-.020 more exhaust lift. The compression and octane consideration are much the same. The 4V head is a good street head IF the other driveline components are properly matched. As examples, 2.75 gears, single exhaust, and a 1600 RPM stall convertor do not complement 4V heads. Using cast iron manifolds limits power production.

I think you should fully plan the build before buying any parts. When you have done the planning, post the details about the gear ratio, transmission and convertor, fuel octane (and method used to determine octane rating), and your goals for the car and the guys here will be able to provide some more specific suggestions.

Good Luck,

Chuck

 
Hello again!

Will e: Performance wise, that depends. If the engine seems okay and i do the rebuild, i want a cam that is not too agressive, but still a perofrmance upgrade. I guess the edelbrock cam should fill this criteria?

And if i end up doing a full rebuild, i want a meaner cam since im upgrading other parts.

Mustang7173: thank you for the tip! Definatly buying that if a rebuild is nessecary. I once rebuilt and upgraded a oldsmobile 455 big block, so im not a complete novice, but that was quite some time ago and this is a completely new engine so a guide is not bad.

Mister 4x4: That is a sweet setup! I bet that thing is a beast!

Summit do ship worldwide but the drawback is shipping cost and import charges, especially with heavier stuff :(

If rebuilding, im going for something similar as you are. Not sure if going to bore it out though.

Might have got hold of some 4V heads cheaper than the cost of a 2V intake.

I know the 4V heads are not good street heads, but i figured since i already got a 4V intake, and im just going for a mild street setup, is it better for me to swap intke or go 4V?

 
Hello Odmark,

The first book I recommended gives a great overall view of the different aspects to the 351C family.

The other book would be

Ford Performance Paperback – October 4, 1998

by Pat Ganahl (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Ford-Performance-Pat-Ganahl/dp/1884089275

My 351C consists of

4 bolt main block-

TRW 9.5: 1 Power forged pistons

Shot penned and magnifluxed connecting rods with 180,000 lbs. rod bolts

Edelbrock Performer Cam Shaft

Dual Roller timing Chain

Melon High Volume oil pump

Edelbrock Performer Plus 2v to 4v intake

1971 Cleveland 2v cylinder heads with 3 angle valve and harden seats

Installed the 4v rocker and fulcrum to get rid of the aluminum fulcrums of the 2v heads

Mallory Unilite distributor along with Mallory Spark box.

mustang7173 :bravo:

Hello again!

Will e: Performance wise, that depends. If the engine seems okay and i do the rebuild, i want a cam that is not too agressive, but still a perofrmance upgrade. I guess the edelbrock cam should fill this criteria?

And if i end up doing a full rebuild, i want a meaner cam since im upgrading other parts.

Mustang7173: thank you for the tip! Definatly buying that if a rebuild is nessecary. I once rebuilt and upgraded a oldsmobile 455 big block, so im not a complete novice, but that was quite some time ago and this is a completely new engine so a guide is not bad.

Mister 4x4: That is a sweet setup! I bet that thing is a beast!

Summit do ship worldwide but the drawback is shipping cost and import charges, especially with heavier stuff :(

If rebuilding, im going for something similar as you are. Not sure if going to bore it out though.

Might have got hold of some 4V heads cheaper than the cost of a 2V intake.

I know the 4V heads are not good street heads, but i figured since i already got a 4V intake, and im just going for a mild street setup, is it better for me to swap intke or go 4V?
 
I have the same cam setup as Mister 4x4 and I absolutely love it. I almost wish I had gone with the 284hr but the 270hr still has awesome drivability with a stock torque converter but had to have been close to the max. It really brought down the rpms when you put it into drive. Now that I have a higher stall in I can't wait to see how it handles.

Actually Mister 4x4 our setup is very similar. Only difference is I never did the bottom end so don't know what it has since it has been rebuilt and I didn't do a valve job. Other than that I have a 670 carb, performer intake and black diamond headers (now bought by hooker headers), and same size exhaust setup.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sweet! Glad it's working for ya! ::thumb::

My complete AOD set-up came from an '89 5.0 GT with 3.00 gears, so using the provided factory TC was a no brainer for me since the FMX has the same gear ratios, as well as mine came with a 3.00 9-inch rear axle. I figured, "Hey, if it worked from the factory - why not give it a shot?" I still need to adjust the TV cable a notch or two (it seems to shift a little early during calm driving to me), and I still need to get a couple things taken care of before I can really mash the pedal, but I'm patient.

I'm pretty happy with what I came up with, and even happier still that it all seems to work well together... after doing some simple research and picking things out on my own (rather than let my much more knowledgeable buddy pick it all out for me), I'm beyond pleasantly surprised. Having the advice from everybody here was huge (especially since Doc did all the heavy-lifting research by actually calling CompCams for his build, and posted "after" videos tearing it up with great success).

Which axle gears do you have? I've heard everybody saying 3.50s are the best for take-off with an FMX, but I would imagine they would push the benefits of the overdrive out of the effective range.

 
Are you using headers and dual exhaust, iron manifolds and dual exhaust, or iron manifolds and single exhaust? If you are using headers and dual exhaust with 2V heads, there is no need for a split in the intake and exhaust durations. With manifolds and dual exhaust perhaps 4-6 degrees more exhaust duration. With manifolds and single exhaust perhaps 8-10 degrees more exhaust duration. The compression ratio also plays a large part in camshaft selection. The octane of the fuel to be used also plays a large role in camshaft selection. If you want to be happy with the end product, and save the cost of doing somethings twice, take the time to determine exactly what the components of the car are now, and what your realistic goals for the car are. Then, build a list of well match parts to achieve your goals.

If you decide to use 4V heads, the cam characteristics are quite different due to the exhaust to intake flow ratio being lower than the 2V head. A split duration and lift cam is advised when using the 4V head. About 10-14 degrees more exhaust duration and .010-.020 more exhaust lift. The compression and octane consideration are much the same. The 4V head is a good street head IF the other driveline components are properly matched. As examples, 2.75 gears, single exhaust, and a 1600 RPM stall convertor do not complement 4V heads. Using cast iron manifolds limits power production.

I think you should fully plan the build before buying any parts. When you have done the planning, post the details about the gear ratio, transmission and convertor, fuel octane (and method used to determine octane rating), and your goals for the car and the guys here will be able to provide some more specific suggestions.

Good Luck,

Chuck
+1

Completely agree with Chucks reply. I spent well over 6 months researching/deciding on my final configuration and I am very happy with the final results.

 
I will start by tearing it apart and inspecting the internals, then i will decide if i just replace the cam or doing a rebuild.

Then plan my budget, decide what parts im going for (like what heads, pistons, am im going to bore it out etc.)

After all of that, i tell you what i came up with and you can help me go from there :)

I would definatly like more power but as i said i dont have so much to spend.

Ill get back to you :)

 
Hey Chuck, I assume you're talking to Odmark, right? :cool:

He never said, but I'm guessing it sounds like manifolds on his 2V heads - not sure about dual exhaust or not.

Great information, BTW! ::thumb::

I'm counting myself lucky that I just happened to pick the right combination (headers + dual exhaust with a symmetrical cam) based on that information. :D

 
Sorry, yes it has manifolds then dual 2 1/2 inch pipes all the way back!

Going for headers now :)

 
John, looking at your sig, what is a 'herbert cam'?
Mike,

These guys were recommended to me when I started researching what I wanted for my build. The dad was into racing and was familiar with Fords so I decided to go with them. This is what I wound up installing:

290 duration

225/235 duration @.050

530/550 lift @.050

110 LSA

Fits in with what Chuck was recommending for a 4V head. I thought that it would run a little lopey but it really is quite street-able. Not much different than driving the Ford Edge that I have. I have a 2800 stall, high CR and 3.89 rear so it all works well together. Here is the audio, you probably seen it before but I'll post it again.

http://www.herbertcams.com/


 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sweet! Glad it's working for ya! ::thumb::

My complete AOD set-up came from an '89 5.0 GT with 3.00 gears, so using the provided factory TC was a no brainer for me since the FMX has the same gear ratios, as well as mine came with a 3.00 9-inch rear axle. I figured, "Hey, if it worked from the factory - why not give it a shot?" I still need to adjust the TV cable a notch or two (it seems to shift a little early during calm driving to me), and I still need to get a couple things taken care of before I can really mash the pedal, but I'm patient.

I'm pretty happy with what I came up with, and even happier still that it all seems to work well together... after doing some simple research and picking things out on my own (rather than let my much more knowledgeable buddy pick it all out for me), I'm beyond pleasantly surprised. Having the advice from everybody here was huge (especially since Doc did all the heavy-lifting research by actually calling CompCams for his build, and posted "after" videos tearing it up with great success).

Which axle gears do you have? I've heard everybody saying 3.50s are the best for take-off with an FMX, but I would imagine they would push the benefits of the overdrive out of the effective range.
I really want to do an AOD swap, I have a C6 so I know it robs a ton of power. I currently have 3.00 gears in it, I would like to do 3.50 but as you mentioned I'm worried it will bring my rpms too high on the highway. Although with my larger diameter tires now it may not be too bad to do.....

 
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