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3- Point Seat Belts w/o neck rash!


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Hi Brett,

 

Quick question. Has your State Government recently relaxed the seat belt laws regarding classic cars? They have in Queensland, and now i'm allowed to have lap only belts in my Vert, and factory belts in my Mach 1.:@ ( the Mach has original factory belts installed already) I was angry over this, as i spent a large sum of money and went to great deal of trouble to install and modify new lap and sash belts for the Vert after i bought it in 2011. You HAD to have lap and sash belts installed back then. The position of the shoulder anchor bolt has to be located in a small confined area, and so now, the quarter window winder cranks hits the anchor bolts covers every time you wind the glass up and down. That's a real pain in the neck. Now i can use the original American factory belts that were in the car when i bought it.:shootself:

 

Sorry Eric, didn't mean to hi jack your post.:)

 

Greg.:)

 

Hi Greg

 

There's a bloke at my work who is getting a LHD '71 Torino ready for registration. I asked him yesterday about the seat belts and he said his engineer expects Australian Design Rules approved sash seat belt for all four corner seats, and he is allowed to use ADR approved lap belts for the centre seats only. So no, it doesn't look like they've relaxed the rules in any way down here in VIC.

 

Brett

Brett

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Thanks Brett,

 

Interesting feedback.:chin: Yeah, it could mean different rules for different States again. More out of step State rubbish like before.

 

Australia - 24 million people and six States with different rules - crazy.:shootself:

 

Greg.:)

:whistling: LORD, MR FORD - JERRY REED

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Thanks Brett,

 

Interesting feedback.:chin: Yeah, it could mean different rules for different States again. More out of step State rubbish like before.

 

Australia - 24 million people and six States with different rules - crazy.:shootself:

 

Greg.:)

 

Could be worse Greg, think of all the poor buggers over in South Australia. Their nanny government won't let them modify their LHD cars away from stock configuration at all. If it doesn't look exactly as it did when it left the factory then it's not allowed on the road at all.... :shootself:

 

To be honest, I didn't begrudge being made to put new lap/sash belts all round, it's nice to know that myself and passengers are as safe as it's possible to be in the event of a stack.

Brett

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Thanks Brett,

 

Interesting feedback.:chin: Yeah, it could mean different rules for different States again. More out of step State rubbish like before.

 

Australia - 24 million people and six States with different rules - crazy.:shootself:

 

Greg.:)

 

Could be worse Greg, think of all the poor buggers over in South Australia. Their nanny government won't let them modify their LHD cars away from stock configuration at all. If it doesn't look exactly as it did when it left the factory then it's not allowed on the road at all.... :shootself:

 

To be honest, I didn't begrudge being made to put new lap/sash belts all round, it's nice to know that myself and passengers are as safe as it's possible to be in the event of a stack.

 

Yeah Brett,

 

good point - that is very true for sure.

 

Greg.:)

:whistling: LORD, MR FORD - JERRY REED

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Through all of this, nobody has yet answered my question of how to get the extended drop links onto a modern 3-point set-up without having to disassemble the whole thing - which could render it inoperable.

 

Is that the case, because I can't see a was to slip the non-drop link that came with the belt kit off, and install the new one without having to remove the 'reel end' of the belt from the auto-rewind mechanism, or otherwise getting the latch plate (the part you pull across your body and click into the latch) to fit through the metal loop.

 

I don't believe they're designed to be taken apart and re-sewed by the customer, either.

 

So, before I order a set for mine and potentially waste the money, does anybody have any explanation on how to swap the new drop links onto existing 3-point belts?

Eric

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I think there are companies that can take them apart (or cut) and re-stitch the end. When I bought my seat belt from Don from Ohio they were too long. He had me send the belt to the manufacturer where they cut it and restitched it together.

 

Through all of this, nobody has yet answered my question of how to get the extended drop links onto a modern 3-point set-up without having to disassemble the whole thing - which could render it inoperable.

 

Is that the case, because I can't see a was to slip the non-drop link that came with the belt kit off, and install the new one without having to remove the 'reel end' of the belt from the auto-rewind mechanism, or otherwise getting the latch plate (the part you pull across your body and click into the latch) to fit through the metal loop.

 

I don't believe they're designed to be taken apart and re-sewed by the customer, either.

 

So, before I order a set for mine and potentially waste the money, does anybody have any explanation on how to swap the new drop links onto existing 3-point belts?

20210826_100810-mod-s.jpg.52aeaedc03b0419348700fb9c465e338.jpg

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Through all of this, nobody has yet answered my question of how to get the extended drop links onto a modern 3-point set-up without having to disassemble the whole thing - which could render it inoperable.

 

Is that the case, because I can't see a was to slip the non-drop link that came with the belt kit off, and install the new one without having to remove the 'reel end' of the belt from the auto-rewind mechanism, or otherwise getting the latch plate (the part you pull across your body and click into the latch) to fit through the metal loop.

 

I don't believe they're designed to be taken apart and re-sewed by the customer, either.

 

So, before I order a set for mine and potentially waste the money, does anybody have any explanation on how to swap the new drop links onto existing 3-point belts?

 

I don't think anyone should cut and re-sew a safety belt.

You will not know if it holds until you need it the most.

It's not worth the risk.

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Through all of this, nobody has yet answered my question of how to get the extended drop links onto a modern 3-point set-up without having to disassemble the whole thing - which could render it inoperable.

 

Is that the case, because I can't see a was to slip the non-drop link that came with the belt kit off, and install the new one without having to remove the 'reel end' of the belt from the auto-rewind mechanism, or otherwise getting the latch plate (the part you pull across your body and click into the latch) to fit through the metal loop.

 

I don't believe they're designed to be taken apart and re-sewed by the customer, either.

 

So, before I order a set for mine and potentially waste the money, does anybody have any explanation on how to swap the new drop links onto existing 3-point belts?

 

I don't think anyone should cut and re-sew a safety belt.

You will not know if it holds until you need it the most.

It's not worth the risk.

 

However, that said, can we rely on companies that have "experience" with belts? I guess the question is how we define experience, but I guess a belt manufacturer should know how to do it. Are there any standards that have to be followed when doing this work?

20210826_100810-mod-s.jpg.52aeaedc03b0419348700fb9c465e338.jpg

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Through all of this, nobody has yet answered my question of how to get the extended drop links onto a modern 3-point set-up without having to disassemble the whole thing - which could render it inoperable.

 

Is that the case, because I can't see a was to slip the non-drop link that came with the belt kit off, and install the new one without having to remove the 'reel end' of the belt from the auto-rewind mechanism, or otherwise getting the latch plate (the part you pull across your body and click into the latch) to fit through the metal loop.

 

I don't believe they're designed to be taken apart and re-sewed by the customer, either.

 

So, before I order a set for mine and potentially waste the money, does anybody have any explanation on how to swap the new drop links onto existing 3-point belts?

 

I don't think anyone should cut and re-sew a safety belt.

You will not know if it holds until you need it the most.

It's not worth the risk.

 

However, that said, can we rely on companies that have "experience" with belts? I guess the question is how we define experience, but I guess a belt manufacturer should know how to do it. Are there any standards that have to be followed when doing this work?

 

Seat belts have to pass various safety regulations and standards

The manufacturer knows how and what to use to do it correctly.

 

 

A local upholstery shop... maybe

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Through all of this, nobody has yet answered my question of how to get the extended drop links onto a modern 3-point set-up without having to disassemble the whole thing - which could render it inoperable.

 

Is that the case, because I can't see a was to slip the non-drop link that came with the belt kit off, and install the new one without having to remove the 'reel end' of the belt from the auto-rewind mechanism, or otherwise getting the latch plate (the part you pull across your body and click into the latch) to fit through the metal loop.

 

I don't believe they're designed to be taken apart and re-sewed by the customer, either.

 

So, before I order a set for mine and potentially waste the money, does anybody have any explanation on how to swap the new drop links onto existing 3-point belts?

 

I don't think anyone should cut and re-sew a safety belt.

You will not know if it holds until you need it the most.

It's not worth the risk.

 

My point exactly. I'm not keen on going that route, which is why I'm trying to find out if there's an easy D-I-Y way to swap the drop link for the non-drop link that came with my 3-point belt kit. If not, then I'll take a page from Jeff's book and make some rigid drop links to lower the position of the upper belt-link mount.

 

I have no intention of hacking up a perfectly good set of belts just to install a drop link that should've been purchased with the kit in the first place.

 

I'm a little paranoid with the whole 3-point belt system not fitting properly. If you remember Rick Allen, the drummer from Def Leppard, lost his left arm because the seat belt in his Corvette cut right through it during a high speed rollover accident. Considering that I'm 6'-5" and the belt as it sits comes over my shoulder and rides right up against my neck, I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of having a similar issue in my car (pretty sure I wouldn't be losing my arm in that case ;) ).

 

But yes, you're right Don - I wouldn't want anybody but a professional disassembling/reassembling something so critical as a seat belt.

Eric

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I didnt know thats how he lost is arm. We better place one of those cushion covers over the belt :)

 

1971 M-code Mach 1

20210826_100810-mod-s.jpg.52aeaedc03b0419348700fb9c465e338.jpg

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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All any of the cites say is that his seat belt was "improperly fastened" (whatever that means) and he was ejected from the car, where his arm remained.

 

What I'm pretty sure I do know is that if a seat belt can cut through a shoulder joint to sever an arm during an intense car accident, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have any issues going through say, one's neck, with any more trouble. Considering the location of major blood vessels and airway that supply some of your most critical organs (brain and lungs, for instance), I wouldn't want even the possibility of minor lacerations to be caused in that area by something that's supposed to actually protect you [when installed and worn properly, that is].

Eric

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What I'm pretty sure I do know is that if a seat belt can cut through a shoulder joint to sever an arm during an intense car accident, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have any issues going through say, one's neck, with any more trouble. Considering the location of major blood vessels and airway that supply some of your most critical organs (brain and lungs, for instance), I wouldn't want even the possibility of minor lacerations to be caused in that area by something that's supposed to actually protect you [when installed and worn properly, that is].

 

100% agree... I guess that's why they are called shoulder harnesses and not neck harnesses. :)

20210826_100810-mod-s.jpg.52aeaedc03b0419348700fb9c465e338.jpg

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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The problem with my solution is that while the drop link is mounted to the original mounting point for the shoulder strap, the lower portion is bolted to the seatbelt. You can slide a guard over the metal, make a vinyl or leather sleeve, you can smooth it or plastidip it, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't tested, it is only as strong as the hardware you choose to use and if it fails, it is all on you for "designing and manufacturing the part"

 

I accept the risks of my own modifications, I used a heavy piece of steel that is to my way of thinking stronger than anything else in the mounting system and I used good grade 8 hardware with proper and complete thread engagement and equal in size to the factory fasteners. I don't let other people drive my car for the most part.

 

To be clear I don't recommend doing it the way I did it. There is no engineering to back me up nor is there any testing to prove me right.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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To be clear I don't recommend doing it the way I did it. There is no engineering to back me up nor is there any testing to prove me right.

 

Nor do you want to test it....:)

20210826_100810-mod-s.jpg.52aeaedc03b0419348700fb9c465e338.jpg

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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The problem with my solution is that while the drop link is mounted to the original mounting point for the shoulder strap, the lower portion is bolted to the seatbelt. You can slide a guard over the metal, make a vinyl or leather sleeve, you can smooth it or plastidip it, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't tested, it is only as strong as the hardware you choose to use and if it fails, it is all on you for "designing and manufacturing the part"

 

I accept the risks of my own modifications, I used a heavy piece of steel that is to my way of thinking stronger than anything else in the mounting system and I used good grade 8 hardware with proper and complete thread engagement and equal in size to the factory fasteners. I don't let other people drive my car for the most part.

 

To be clear I don't recommend doing it the way I did it. There is no engineering to back me up nor is there any testing to prove me right.

 

Understood.

 

I'm still waiting for someone who has installed the drop-links to explain how they did it (were they part of a kit, did they have someone do it, were they able to simply replace the link with the drop-link, etc.). I'm also not in any kind of a hurry or anything like that, either.

Eric

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I'm still waiting for someone who has installed the drop-links to explain how they did it (were they part of a kit, did they have someone do it, were they able to simply replace the link with the drop-link, etc.). I'm also not in any kind of a hurry or anything like that, either.

 

For my drop link, the shackle at the bottom of the drop link is designed to be big enough for the latch buckle to slide through it, so you just thread the belt and buckle straight through the shackle when installing, there's no unstitching involved. My drop link and seatbelts came from the one manufacturer (Hemco Australia) so clearly the belts and droplinks are designed to work well with each other. Whether or not the Hemco droplink would work with non-Hemco belts I couldn't say.

Brett

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The problem with my solution is that while the drop link is mounted to the original mounting point for the shoulder strap, the lower portion is bolted to the seatbelt. You can slide a guard over the metal, make a vinyl or leather sleeve, you can smooth it or plastidip it, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't tested, it is only as strong as the hardware you choose to use and if it fails, it is all on you for "designing and manufacturing the part"

 

I accept the risks of my own modifications, I used a heavy piece of steel that is to my way of thinking stronger than anything else in the mounting system and I used good grade 8 hardware with proper and complete thread engagement and equal in size to the factory fasteners. I don't let other people drive my car for the most part.

 

To be clear I don't recommend doing it the way I did it. There is no engineering to back me up nor is there any testing to prove me right.

 

It is a legal thing for sure. That being said, strapping your body in the seat isn't any different than strapping 250lbs of lumber to my ladder rack on my truck. Secure the load, so when you stop (or hit something) the load stays put. I'm pretty certain the leaf spring shackle that Jeff used is not the weak link in the equation. Truthfully, if the force is great enough, (ie, the rate of deceleration is quick enough) your body is the weak link. You'll get sliced into pieces by the belt, like one of those wire hard boiled egg slicers. :s

Drive safely my friends.

Eric

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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The problem with my solution is that while the drop link is mounted to the original mounting point for the shoulder strap, the lower portion is bolted to the seatbelt. You can slide a guard over the metal, make a vinyl or leather sleeve, you can smooth it or plastidip it, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't tested, it is only as strong as the hardware you choose to use and if it fails, it is all on you for "designing and manufacturing the part"

 

I accept the risks of my own modifications, I used a heavy piece of steel that is to my way of thinking stronger than anything else in the mounting system and I used good grade 8 hardware with proper and complete thread engagement and equal in size to the factory fasteners. I don't let other people drive my car for the most part.

 

To be clear I don't recommend doing it the way I did it. There is no engineering to back me up nor is there any testing to prove me right.

 

It is a legal thing for sure. That being said, strapping your body in the seat isn't any different than strapping 250lbs of lumber to my ladder rack on my truck. Secure the load, so when you stop (or hit something) the load stays put. I'm pretty certain the leaf spring shackle that Jeff used is not the weak link in the equation. Truthfully, if the force is great enough, (ie, the rate of deceleration is quick enough) your body is the weak link. You'll get sliced into pieces by the belt, like one of those wire hard boiled egg slicers. :s

Drive safely my friends.

Eric

 

Thanks for the graphic depiction.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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The problem with my solution is that while the drop link is mounted to the original mounting point for the shoulder strap, the lower portion is bolted to the seatbelt. You can slide a guard over the metal, make a vinyl or leather sleeve, you can smooth it or plastidip it, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't tested, it is only as strong as the hardware you choose to use and if it fails, it is all on you for "designing and manufacturing the part"

 

I accept the risks of my own modifications, I used a heavy piece of steel that is to my way of thinking stronger than anything else in the mounting system and I used good grade 8 hardware with proper and complete thread engagement and equal in size to the factory fasteners. I don't let other people drive my car for the most part.

 

To be clear I don't recommend doing it the way I did it. There is no engineering to back me up nor is there any testing to prove me right.

 

It is a legal thing for sure. That being said, strapping your body in the seat isn't any different than strapping 250lbs of lumber to my ladder rack on my truck. Secure the load, so when you stop (or hit something) the load stays put. I'm pretty certain the leaf spring shackle that Jeff used is not the weak link in the equation. Truthfully, if the force is great enough, (ie, the rate of deceleration is quick enough) your body is the weak link. You'll get sliced into pieces by the belt, like one of those wire hard boiled egg slicers. :s

Drive safely my friends.

Eric

 

Thanks for the graphic depiction.

 

...no problem

 

eggslicer.jpg.0e5e56e447ad05c8d1a600b1449ee860.jpg

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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I emailed Ando Auto asking about the question of how to assemble the door post extension (DPE):

 

Hello

 

The latch will not fit thru the door post. To install the door post the webbing has to be either cut and the end or removed from the retractor.

 

Sorry but we do not modify customers belts.

20210826_100810-mod-s.jpg.52aeaedc03b0419348700fb9c465e338.jpg

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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[attachment=37336][attachment=37337][attachment=37338]Being vertically challenged, I'm very interested in this "modification" as long as it is a properly constructed belt system. My problem is that I bought a 3 point front belt system from NPD and was very dissatisfied with it for several reasons and took it back. Typical of other brands as well, the center lap belt portion that is screwed to the trans tunnel, is too short. With my drivers seat position, the buckle ended up on the side of the seat itself. OK for the taller driver as the seat would be back further. Another bad point was the buckle sold (at the time by NPD) was the lift-latch type, not correct on our cars, but still sold for the 71-73's. One more irritating concern that the guys at Seat Belt Solutions in Florida could not seem to grasp was the fact that the webbing coming over the shoulder took a twist, rubbing the neck and looking like crap.

I rolled the web in the shoulder bracket and the latch to remove said twist, except then the lap belt attachment bar where it connects with the retractor bolt, has a bend that is supposed to angle the lap belt toward the seat, but now faced outward and hit the door. If that bend was the other way, the belt would at least fit straight with no twist. My point here is I want to buy another set of 3 point belts for safety and comfort, but I don't want to have to the hassle. Has anyone else tried to install 3 point belts and had a problem with unwanted twists that look just wrong and does another manufacturer have belts that do not have this twist??

NOTE: Pictures are as it was first installed to the instructions.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Being vertically challenged, I'm very interested in this "modification" as long as it is a properly constructed belt system. My problem is that I bought a 3 point front belt system from NPD and was very dissatisfied with it for several reasons and took it back. Typical of other brands as well, the center lap belt portion that is screwed to the trans tunnel, is too short. With my drivers seat position, the buckle ended up on the side of the seat itself. OK for the taller driver as the seat would be back further. Another bad point was the buckle sold (at the time by NPD) was the lift-latch type, not correct on our cars, but still sold for the 71-73's. One more irritating concern that the guys at Seat Belt Solutions in Florida could not seem to grasp was the fact that the webbing coming over the shoulder took a twist, rubbing the neck and looking like crap.

I rolled the web in the shoulder bracket and the latch to remove said twist, except then the lap belt attachment bar where it connects with the retractor bolt, has a bend that is supposed to angle the lap belt toward the seat, but now faced outward and hit the door. If that bend was the other way, the belt would at least fit straight with no twist. My point here is I want to buy another set of 3 point belts for safety and comfort, but I don't want to have to the hassle. Has anyone else tried to install 3 point belts and had a problem with unwanted twists that look just wrong and does another manufacturer have belts that do not have this twist??

NOTE: Pictures are as it was first installed to the instructions.

Geoff, if you were able to correct the twist by rolling over the web (belt) and the only problem now is the end bracket's bend is toward the sill (not pictured) instead of toward the seat (pictured), I would suggest clamping this bracket in a vise and bending it the other way.

Seems like that would solve half of your problem, as you would still need the drop link to lower the angle away from your neck.

As far as the "bucket seat end" attached to the trans tunnel, how long is yours? I purchased the 11" option, as opposed to the 8" option.

Eric

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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Being vertically challenged, I'm very interested in this "modification" as long as it is a properly constructed belt system. My problem is that I bought a 3 point front belt system from NPD and was very dissatisfied with it for several reasons and took it back. Typical of other brands as well, the center lap belt portion that is screwed to the trans tunnel, is too short. With my drivers seat position, the buckle ended up on the side of the seat itself. OK for the taller driver as the seat would be back further. Another bad point was the buckle sold (at the time by NPD) was the lift-latch type, not correct on our cars, but still sold for the 71-73's. One more irritating concern that the guys at Seat Belt Solutions in Florida could not seem to grasp was the fact that the webbing coming over the shoulder took a twist, rubbing the neck and looking like crap.

I rolled the web in the shoulder bracket and the latch to remove said twist, except then the lap belt attachment bar where it connects with the retractor bolt, has a bend that is supposed to angle the lap belt toward the seat, but now faced outward and hit the door. If that bend was the other way, the belt would at least fit straight with no twist. My point here is I want to buy another set of 3 point belts for safety and comfort, but I don't want to have to the hassle. Has anyone else tried to install 3 point belts and had a problem with unwanted twists that look just wrong and does another manufacturer have belts that do not have this twist??

NOTE: Pictures are as it was first installed to the instructions.

Geoff, if you were able to correct the twist by rolling over the web (belt) and the only problem now is the end bracket's bend is toward the sill (not pictured) instead of toward the seat (pictured), I would suggest clamping this bracket in a vise and bending it the other way.

Seems like that would solve half of your problem, as you would still need the drop link to lower the angle away from your neck.

As far as the "bucket seat end" attached to the trans tunnel, how long is yours? I purchased the 11" option, as opposed to the 8" option.

Eric

 

Eric, I thought about just bending the bottom bracket, but as this is a safety item and I have no idea what steel it is made from, the risk of fracture is too great. The real problem was the buckle location on the side of the seat. That strap was also 11inches long, in a plastic sheath. The originals are about 15" long and that is what I need so the buckle is where it should be.

Thanks for your reply. If you or someone else knows of a better solution and brand, please let me know. The drop link idea would be a better solution, period.

Geoff.

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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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bending steel a little bit won't generally affect it's strength. Aluminum is another story.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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