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HHO Injection & better mileage


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Maybe this is controversial, maybe not. Anyway, I was a skeptic and still am. My 17 year old son & his buddies in HS have made 2 HHO (Brown's gas) generators out of pickle jars, installed them on a Toyota Camry and a 1989 Ford F150. Both vehicles are showing a remarkable increase in fuel economy. The hydrogen and oxygen is NOT used to fuel the cars nor could enough be created to do so. What it does do is makes the air fuel mixture ignite much faster thus making a cleaner, more efficient burn and leans out the mixture needed for the same amount of performance. More efficient burn = more mpgs.

 

Supposedly it works better on carbureted engines so I thought I'd start a discussion on here if anyone wanted to play with it. I'm going to make one for my diesel excursion since that is my biggest fuel bill and I'm going to make one on the cheap...but not pickle jar cheap like the high schoolers. I'm going to use a 4" PVC pipe with a screw cap on one end to refill with distilled water some thin stainless steel plates separated by plastic bolts, washers and nuts then pipe the HHO gas into my intake. If I blow up, you already know what happened to me. LOL

 

Here are a couple of threads for background info. Whatever you do, don't buy a setup from anyone on the internet. Make your own.

 

http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=6927

 

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f22/hydrogen-199922/

 

If you think this is crazy, me too but I'll only be out a few bucks and can say I tried it. I'll let you know how it works out if anyone is interested.

 

 

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Maybe this is controversial, maybe not. Anyway, I was a skeptic and still am. My 17 year old son & his buddies in HS have made 2 HHO (Brown's gas) generators out of pickle jars, installed them on a Toyota Camry and a 1989 Ford F150. Both vehicles are showing a remarkable increase in fuel economy. The hydrogen and oxygen is NOT used to fuel the cars nor could enough be created to do so. What it does do is makes the air fuel mixture ignite much faster thus making a cleaner, more efficient burn and leans out the mixture needed for the same amount of performance. More efficient burn = more mpgs.

 

Supposedly it works better on carbureted engines so I thought I'd start a discussion on here if anyone wanted to play with it. I'm going to make one for my diesel excursion since that is my biggest fuel bill and I'm going to make one on the cheap...but not pickle jar cheap like the high schoolers. I'm going to use a 4" PVC pipe with a screw cap on one end to refill with distilled water some thin stainless steel plates separated by plastic bolts, washers and nuts then pipe the HHO gas into my intake. If I blow up, you already know what happened to me. LOL

 

Here are a couple of threads for background info. Whatever you do, don't buy a setup from anyone on the internet. Make your own.

 

http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=6927

 

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f22/hydrogen-199922/

 

If you think this is crazy, me too but I'll only be out a few bucks and can say I tried it. I'll let you know how it works out if anyone is interested.

 

 

.

 

how about we work together on this. all S Steel and no pvc. you tell me what you need and I will weld it together. what do you think??

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Doc and Don

 

I used to work with a fellow who did this to his F150 and he said he was over 30 MPG at the time ....what i'll do if you like is try to get his plans from him because he has been fine tuning this for about 10 years.

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Ken

 

73 Convertible 302-4v-3spd yellow /white int

 

08 Bullitt 4.6-5 spd black/black int

 

 

All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=327]Visit My Garage[/button]

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If I blow up, you already know what happened to me. LOL

 

LOL! Yeah I'm a skeptic too but let me know how it turns out, the concept IS intriguing (sp?).

 

Steve

 

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-1972-mach-1--1800]The Stable[/button]

 

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Warning. Theoretically you could blow yourself up. Proceed at your own risk. However, for me, blowing stuff up is cool so I press onward with safety goggles.

 

HHO Generator design (via high school boys with no money)

The ultra cheap setup the HS boys' made version which a 1/2 gallon pickle jar with lid. Inside the jar they used 5 galvanized light switch covers with two nylon bolts holding them all together but with nylon washers in between each plate so the plates can't/don't touch each other and short out setup. They ran two wires through a small hole in the lid and connected them to each side of the switch plates so one side is positive and the other is negative. The plate assembly is inside the jar filled with distilled water almost to the top and a small amount of baking soda added to make the reaction happen quickly. The other end of the wires hook to the battery via a switch and a fuse. The drilled a small hole in the lid to fit a piece of tubing slightly larger than vacuum line that goes through the lid but well above the water line. The other end of the line goes through a hole they made in the intake air tube. When switch on the water will bubble off oxygen and hydrogen. The jar and lid are tightly sealed so it won't leak fluid or let the HHO escape past the wires or tube that goes through the lid. For the carb setups just route the line into the air cleaner near the carb throat. Also, my setup will be better designed. I don't suggest you copy this setup. I only provided to show what the HS boys did.

 

Safety first.

CAUTION: Beware of a backfire...don't know what that would do but wanted to throw that out there - glass shrapnel would not be a fun thing to experience.

Precautionary suggestions.

1. Don't use a pickle jar, try a Mason jar if you insist on using glass. LOL A Mason jar is designed for canning in high heat, however, I have seen them explode in an oven.

2. Add both a fuse and a 15amp resistor to the positive line to keep things from getting too hot in the container and blowing up. The more baking soda added the faster the boil. The 1/2 gallon (+/-) amount of water lasts for more than a tank of fuel in their test vehicles.

3. Don't let the HHO generator run while the engine isn't. It will drain your battery and there would be an excessive amount of hydrogen and oxygen under your hood...One spark from the alternator and KABOOM! there goes your NACA hood 20 feet into the air. Or in my case rust shrapnel from the NACA hood.

 

There are better plans (free plans if you do some searching from guys like us who post their experiences) for the HHO generators on the net from others who have done this. I'm still researching for the exact metal electrode design to go into the water. A certain type of stainless steel is supposed to work best but cannot remember the type. Will post later...I think I saw it on the gassaver site.

 

 

NOTE: Other forums have banned this topic not because it works or not but because other members started name calling, fussing about exaggerated claims, fussing about not being able to run a car on hydrogen, fussing about it taking too much electricity to produce the amount to hydrogen needed to run the car, scam artist jumping in, and a bunch of childish behavior. I don't want to see that here because the initial results show that it does work.

 

Let me say it one more time... I'm not trying to run the car on hydrogen. I do want to add a little hydrogen to my airflow to get the initial combustion process started just before the gasoline ignites so as to get a better bang from the gasoline. The gas still completely powers the car. The hydrogen ONLY makes the process happen a little nicer, cleaner, better. Whatever...it appears to work (said with a skeptic tone in my voice).

 

Let the fun begin, no mean posts and I assume NO responsibility for this. :D

 

 

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Doc and Don

 

I used to work with a fellow who did this to his F150 and he said he was over 30 MPG at the time ....what i'll do if you like is try to get his plans from him because he has been fine tuning this for about 10 years.

 

Heck yeah...but just like we say in the intro threads:

 

:worthlesswithoutpics:

 

I'll post my pics as I put mine together. Maybe I can snap a pic of the pickle jar setup the next time the boys are over at the house (not often).

 

 

 

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I have done some research on this and it does seem to have merit. I'll be watching!

[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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Don, I don't know anything about this, but I would worry about a lean condition on the diesel. I suppose you could keep an eye on EGT?

 

That said, I enjoy this type of thinking outside the box!

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I don't know much about it either! I've read a ton of posts from others saying it works and an equal amount from nay sayers. Not trying or wanting to start that debate on our wonderful forum but I would like to tinker with it and see for myself.

 

I also read since my initial post that it's not too much of a difference on diesels because they are already fairly efficient engines. It seems that the consensus is that carb engines are the easiest to set up. The EFI cars take a little more effort to see results. Others say there will never be any results. Would be interesting to see some definitive results from our carb cars.

 

 

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I found a good Do It Yourself page to make the generator:

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt10.html

 

Attached is a .pdf of a similar design that is referenced in the webpage above.

 

Below link is a report by the DOT about using hydrogen as a fuel. It covers fuel cells and electrolyzers (what we're interested in here) and a lot of other information. The fact that it is discussed in the report by the government suggests that it is not a hoax.

 

Here's the US DOT report:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-research/research-technology/report/Guidelines-H2-Fuel-in-CMVs-Nov2007.pdf

 

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Smack HHO generator design.pdf

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  • 3 weeks later...

I found an Jan 2011 Sand Sport magazine article where they test a Hydrogen system.

http://hydrogengarage.com/pdf/Sand_Sport_Hydrogen_1-2011.pdf

 

Also the hydrogengarage.com website has some very interesting reading on the subject.

 

 

.


Doc and Don

 

I used to work with a fellow who did this to his F150 and he said he was over 30 MPG at the time ....what i'll do if you like is try to get his plans from him because he has been fine tuning this for about 10 years.

 

Ken, any luck in getting a hold of your buddy?

 

.

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I found an Jan 2011 Sand Sport magazine article where they test a Hydrogen system.

http://hydrogengarage.com/pdf/Sand_Sport_Hydrogen_1-2011.pdf

 

Also the hydrogengarage.com website has some very interesting reading on the subject.

 

 

.


Doc and Don

 

I used to work with a fellow who did this to his F150 and he said he was over 30 MPG at the time ....what i'll do if you like is try to get his plans from him because he has been fine tuning this for about 10 years.

 

Ken, any luck in getting a hold of your buddy?

 

.

 

No luck at all....I checked with a few people at work and found out that he got fired in an insurance scam that was going on with orthotics. Trying to remember what community newspaper he had a story printed in.

 

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Ken

 

73 Convertible 302-4v-3spd yellow /white int

 

08 Bullitt 4.6-5 spd black/black int

 

 

All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy

[button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=327]Visit My Garage[/button]

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  • 5 months later...

http://peswiki.com/index.php/News:Dateline_Accuses_Dennis_Lee_of_Fraud

 

 

 

Just a little reading for those who thinks this works not to burst your bubble but I too have been sucked in by this and wasted 2 years playing with it to try to improve mileage the best answer I have for you is my volkswagen diesel gets 50mpg you want mileage downsize your car and use the money you save to put gas in your mustang.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't know how far any of y'all plan to take then. But its something I've done a lot of research on lately. What's stopped me is I don't know to tune a Carb and mines already off and I don't want to make it any.worse. anyways. If u get any results and acc decide to sink a lil money into. I suggest useing stainless steel plates and looking into a dry cell generator setup. Someone get my attention before hooking this to a car because there's a lot I can say about it. For now the two most important things that come to mind. Is build a thing called a "bubbler" as well. In the case of a backfire it will prevent you generator from blowing up under your hood. Two as someone earlier said. Run like a 10amp fuse through your system to make sure you don't pull too much power. Last I would advise against bakeing soda. Or salt. Added to the water. Its a lot harder to control. Along with I've read something about it not being good for motors. There's a compound called Koa or Koh I don't remember which. If u look into the subject a little you'll find it. The heat your generator makes is caused by the power it pulls. The power it pulls is caused by how much koa/koh you add to the water. Play around with it. There is a balance. It doesn't take much. If anyone wants more info on the subject feel free to ask or pm me.

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This idea is on the back burner for me due to many other things taking priority right now. However, I ilk do the experiment at some point in the future and will probably do it first on one of the Mach 1s since they are carburated.

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Wow ...i hope it works!! I like ideas like that too..I heard a little about it..But allways afraid of snake oil salesmen at first {wink} Now its turning water too hydro to burn in your car to improve gas?....should work!! But what i allways wanted to make on car<~~~kinda the same set up.....but dif....Is a water injection unit....Like ww2 birds had and been banned from alot of racing....Water injection does alot of the same thing...Even cools and cleans your valves...Gives you more preformance and better gas milage...Kinda like the old water injection units on rv's....I was reading where they put a water injection unit on a rabbit and it was getting up too 50 mpg...A pro driver from porsche made a easy homemade unit for his race car...And got it banned from racing..Cars had too much power and got better gas milage...lol...But why convert when you can put the water right in your motor with no harm and alot of improvements? ...the guy from porche just took a spray bottle ...cutt a hole in his air cleaner for the nossle to spray right over your carb barrels...and a burp tank with a electric pump...and ran a switch inside so he could turn it on and off at will....and you have water injection...been thinkin about putting that on one rig..


http://blizzard.rwic.und.edu/~nordlie/water_injection/local_copies/goodman/059-046-01.htm wow...Kinda scary how EPA shut him down...ohh it was a ford fiesta..oppss..not a rabbit..lol

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I would be interested to see if this works for anybody.

 

I have to admit that my first thought of this (and seeing Gassaver.org) was, "great... this sounds just like the idea of tossing acetone (nail polish remover) in your gas tank to 'break the surface tension of the gasoline' to help it burn more efficiently, therefore reducing fuel consumption.

 

Keep us posted if you ever 'Get your Mad Scientist On' and put one together, Don. I'm sure the story as you tell it will be well worth the read if nothing else. :D

Eric

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