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Contemplating a 429


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My car is a numbers matching 351CJ with 4 speed transmission. I am thinking about looking for a 429 to build as I have the time and money and then swapping the motors when the new one is ready to run. The numbers matching motor would be wrapped up and pushed into a corner on an engine stand.

 

My car will be a restomod so OEM is not a concern. The 351CJ might have a blown head gasket. water was fouling plugs in #7 and #8. I have some block seal in it now which has worked so far but may or may not last so I was planning on pulling it in the fall to rebuild anyway.

 

What do I need to look for in a 429?

-Heads year and casting number

-block year and casting number?

-Crank

-rods

 

What problems might I run into?

 

What would be the cost difference of rebuilding the 351 v a 429 not including the purchase price of the 429?

 

What should I expect to pay for a complete 429 either running or sitting in someone's garage?

I found this one. https://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts/5470187232.html

 

Thanks!

Wade

Thanks!

Wade

1972 Mach 1 351 cj 4speed

"We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it."--Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Others may know more, but my first Mustang was supposed to be a 429 car. I would think the best castings would be 1971 or earlier, but as with anything today aluminum heads would be best. I would imagine build cost would be about the same maybe a little less. Just remember, Big Block=Torque so sub-frame connectors would be a must!! Then all the motor/trans mounts and headers fitting, and a transmission bell housing and clutch would be needed. Just not sure that the payoff would be worth all the extra work as a Cleveland is a very strong engine!! But we all LOVE big block power!!! I have often wondered how much heavier a 429 would be than a stock Cleveland if you had aluminum heads, water pump, Intake and so on. Might not be that much heavier so handling may not suffer much if everything is built well!! Well good luck whichever way you choose to go!!

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With what appears to be a factory 2-barrel, that is obviously not a CJ. With the carburetor mounting surface that rusted I would imagine the inside of some of the cylinders look the same, possibly not rebuildable.

 

You can take a look at the casting numbers, chamber sizes, and valve sizes here, and see what came with adjustable rockers:

http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-casting-numbers-and-engine-codes

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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ok, cool . you need to let us know how much power you want . 429 cj heads work well but aluminum ones work better . the cj heads will be hard to find and very expensive . you aint gonna find a complete cobra jet engine ever . you can stroke the 429 and get big power.

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Guest Pastel Blue

ok, cool . you need to let us know how much power you want . 429 cj heads work well but aluminum ones work better . the cj heads will be hard to find and very expensive . you aint gonna find a complete cobra jet engine ever . you can stroke the 429 and get big power.

 

Here's one... kidding... it is real but spoken for :cool:

1731471311_429cjengineb4rebuild(2).thumb.jpg.a67663ba5187c4244ff900b1ab36183e.jpg

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Guest Pastel Blue

Why not start with a 460? Extra cubes, and probably easier/cheaper to find

 

Agree, parts are easier to locate for the rebuild as well.

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Wade, the person in the Craigslist ad is confused. What he has pictured and is calling a 429 CJ long block is actually a 351C 2bl. The chances of finding a affordable running CJ or a good rebuildable unit gets slimmer with each passing day. 429 CJ/SCJ's were production installed in 71 Mustang/Cougar, 70-71 Torino/Montego-Cyclone, and 71-72 429 Police Interceptors (CJ's with a badge)! The 460's were also torque monsters that were used in many truck and car lines. In fact if you can find any 73-78 460 police interceptors (Full size and Torino) that would make a good start to a performance engine. Exterior dimensions between the two are the same so the fitment would be the same as the 429. Several here have done the same engine swap so they know what is involved to get that bad boy under your hood. In your search if you find any numbers that need to be verified be sure to post, we're all here to help each other.

And, Pastel Blue, you got me!!! I saw your post start "Here's One" with the picture of that CJ, I almost dropped my computer! ::thumb::

Steve

 

No Officer...I really don't know how fast I was going, my speedometer stopped at 140!

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The best bang for the buck is to find any 73-86 460 core from a truck or passenger car. These will have large chamber D3 heads. Post 79 cores will be externally balanced, pre 79 will be internal balance. It doesn't matter for this application. Zero deck the block and rebuild with flat top pistons for near 10:1 compression. Have the heads rebuilt and do a little clean up work on the bowls and the short turns or you can buy ported iron heads for about 1700 bucks from Reincarnation Motorsports. A performer intake and 218/224 ish cam will make over 400 hp and close to 500 ft lbs of torque. Easy and cheap.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

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if you find a cobra jet, dont be surprised if its $3,000.00 because as was mentioned, they only came in 1971 vars and a restored 71 429 mustang is worth around $100,000.00 so the guy with that car but no engine will pay big bucks for one.

 

i actually have a set of 429 4 barrel thunder jet heads which work decent i would sell if you need.

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Others may know more, but my first Mustang was supposed to be a 429 car. I would think the best castings would be 1971 or earlier, but as with anything today aluminum heads would be best. I would imagine build cost would be about the same maybe a little less. Just remember, Big Block=Torque so sub-frame connectors would be a must!! Then all the motor/trans mounts and headers fitting, and a transmission bell housing and clutch would be needed. Just not sure that the payoff would be worth all the extra work as a Cleveland is a very strong engine!! But we all LOVE big block power!!! I have often wondered how much heavier a 429 would be than a stock Cleveland if you had aluminum heads, water pump, Intake and so on. Might not be that much heavier so handling may not suffer much if everything is built well!! Well good luck whichever way you choose to go!!

 

I put a 460/C6 in my 69 Cougar. Originally a 351W/FMX car I figured I would need big block springs, etc. My 460 with aluminum heads, aluminum intake and shorty headers didn't even make the 428 springs budge. I ended up with new 351W springs.

It really doesn't handle toooo bad, but you definitely do not want to hit the gas hard in a corner. The front grabs enough that the back will pass you.

Bob

 

Tachs, Voltmeters, Headlight kits, Wiper delays and more at

http://www.rccinnovations.com/Images/smlogo.jpg

Rocketman's Classic Cougar (and Mustang) Innovations, LLC

 

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Swapping in a 429 or 460 will require changing the transmission also.

 

Why not build up another 351c? A stroker Cleveland would allow you to reuse more of your drivetrain.

 

What are your goals? I'm putting a 460 in my 71 (eventually!) and I am having to change everything- trans, engine mounts radiator, cooling system etc...

Matt

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I've had both a 429 and a 460 in my 72. It was sweet! I installed the heavy coils up front...glad I did. I used hooker super comp headers and a 9 quart oil pan...they were lowwwwwww. Speedbumps were a problem. Get some shorty headers and skip the deep pan if you don't want to worry about clearance. Or get an air ride setup.

 

The heads were ported D0VE castings. I knocked off the "exhaust bump" and cleaned up the bowls. Be careful if you do the exhaust bumps...it's easy to get carried away and break through. These castings are already set up (for the most part) for screw in studs and guide plates.

 

I went from an FMX to a C6. The trans bolts right in but the driveshaft had to be shortened.

 

Quarter mile times between the two were nearly identical. As one might guess, the 460 pulled harder off the line but flattened out sooner...both running same cam, intake, heads, etc. They were both an absolute handful with street tires.

 

I ran a stock 3 or 4 row core radiator (can't recall) out of the cougar my 429 came from....never had overheat issues, but it was always on my mind. With the abundance of high cap aluminum radiators and good quality electric fans, heat won't be an issue. (I'm in the desert, so potentially an issue here).

 

You DEFINITELY want sub frame connectors. I could punch it and open up a 1/4" gap along the passenger window! Let off...and it would settle back in. It's a wonder I never broke the windshield. I was 19, broke, and didn't know any better....but to go back in time :)

 

Oh, here's a funny (to me) tidbit... It's actually EASIER to get to the plugs on the big block!

 

Go to www.429-460.com and look around. They have some great info on the 385 series and can help you decide how you want to spend your money.

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Thanks guys!!! This has helped tremendously!! I have a BBC background so I know how to identify blocks by casting but very new to Ford motors. I am glad I posted the link to that motor on CL. I had no idea that it was a regular Cleveland! I bet that guy has had more than a few raised eyebrows!

 

Why would I not be able to use the factory 4-speed? I planed on going with a Lakewood scatter shield and the shortened drive shaft does make sense but what else would be an issue????

 

I am contemplating this swap to preserve the numbers matching engine and to limit the down time. I can build as I go with no timetable and the most (barring issues) down time would be a weekend. If I go this route then going with the biggest motor to build makes a little more sense to me than looking for another Cleveland. Rebuilding the one I have is still an option though.

 

Thanks

Wade

Thanks!

Wade

1972 Mach 1 351 cj 4speed

"We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it."--Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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of course you can use the same trans.

 

if you want the biggest engine you can get, you want a 460 not a 429 . then you want to stroke it as i previously suggested .

 

if you want big power, you need aluminum heads but they are big bucks as the rocker arms are.

 

i have a set of brand new harland sharp rockers i would sell for around 30% off of summit racings already discounted price and i have the iron 429 thunder jet heads.

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Here was my last project. It was a basket case 1971 Corvette non original 350 with an auto trans that I bought at the Charlotte autofair. I did everything on this car myself including paint and body, interior, suspension, building and installing the 454 and converting to manual trans. The only exception was installing the new convertible top. That was way too expensive to screw up for never doing it before. One of the nicest upgrades I did after it was built was adding a tremec 5 speed. That was night and day difference compared to the Muncie.

 

It was a 10 year project that when it was done I had 2 kids so a 2 seater was useless and my interests were far different from when I started! I am also 6'5" 255 so I looked like an ape driving a bumper car!!!!

 

My goal for the Mach is to keep it running and driving so I can enjoy it while I work on it. This way I doubt I ever lose interest.

 

http://s114.photobucket.com/user/BlackRat_Vet/library/corvette

Thanks!

Wade

1972 Mach 1 351 cj 4speed

"We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it."--Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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.

Your goal is incredibly modest and pathetically easy to achieve . One option is the following . It will have a moderate but not obnoxious idle and xlnt throttle response and lots of tire roasting torque.

 

502 CI STROKER KIT

 

Buy the parts separately and use 4032 pistons . You can also save money by simply having your crank offset ground instead.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/search/make/ford/engine-size/7-5l-460/engine-family/ford-big-block-385-series/engine-stroke-in/4-150-in/balanced/no?N=4294951343%2B4294951323%2B4294951322%2B4294877686%2B4294949300&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=rotating%20assemblies

 

 

HEADS

 

429 Thunder Jet heads which I have if you want . Factory Cobra Jet heads are a little better but they may cost you $2000.00, so for what you want, the Thunder Jets are the best for your app, and in fact, they are the most popular iron head to run on these therefore, they too are getting hard to find and getting pricey . With just minor porting, guys are getting 550 hp with them.

 

I would have the bowls blended and the valve guides smoothed . This might cost $300.00 max and will help considerably . You will need valves anyway so I would use stainless with hard tips . A set of $120.00 comp valve springs and $60.00 retainers are all you need.

 

If you go with the bigger cam I listed, I would install bigger valves.

 

 

CAMS

 

I would port the bejesus out of the exhaust port if you use this first cam.

 

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=3331

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-30340511/overview/make/ford

 

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=3326&gid=342

 

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2315&gid=284

 

 

LIFTERS

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-91218/overview/make/ford

 

 

INTAKE MANIFOLD

 

Eddy Air Gap if you have the hood clearance . it is 5.48 tall.

 

You can also use a Torker II which is only 3.87 tall if you need the clearance.

 

 

CARBURETOR

 

This is good for the second cam I listed . I would use a 680 for the first cam . Cut the choke off if you don't need it and buy the slowest progressive linkage for it.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-ss-830/overview/

 

 

GEARING

 

You can use as low as 3.00 with the first cam if you had to but 3.25 would be better . The second cam would prefer at least 3.25 but 3.50 would be better, however, your engine would turn high revs at 70 mph or more with 3.50's.

 

 

EXHAUST

 

If you dont want big hp and headers, you can use stock cobra jet exhaust but headers really will be better . I think the exit size on these is 2 1/2.

 

With the bigger cam, I would definitely use 2 3/4" exhaust with free flow mufflers . 3" is overkill and might be a little hard to fit.

 

FOR SMALL CAM

 

750 ANNULAR WITH CHOKE

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-ss-750-an/overview/

 

750 ANNULAR NO CHOKE

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-q-750-an/overview/

 

 

FOR BIG CAM

 

830 WITH CHOKE

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTouhT_oM_4T89lso-fCfWZ8spvgRSPkm8rdUDriDcp4tuA8Fej

 

850 ANNULAR BOOSTER

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/qft-q-850-an/overview/

.

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I'll throw in my 2 cents here. As some one who has owned several over the years. There is just something about the bore and stroke of a 429 that makes them work very well. 429 engines prior to 72 are the ones to have. The thunder jet engines from the T-birds were very good. 11.5 to one close chamber heads and tuned right they survive on todays pump gas pretty well. I have owned a C code 71 Mach 429 CJR and it did not like todays pump gas as well. The 71 mustang I have now is a 69 thunder jet with dual 4 bbls and runs very well. I have had this same combo in a couple trucks and loved it. A friend built to the hilt a 460 and I could have my way with him at any time I wanted. I don't have any experience with the stoker engines except a 347 cobra engine. But IMHO the 429 is the best big block ford ever made. And bullet proof as well. The one in my 71 coupe will brake them loose at 45 MPH and I am running 354 gears. Tons of torque.

Thanks

Don


ok, cool . you need to let us know how much power you want . 429 cj heads work well but aluminum ones work better . the cj heads will be hard to find and very expensive . you aint gonna find a complete cobra jet engine ever . you can stroke the 429 and get big power.

 

Here's one... kidding... it is real but spoken for :cool:

 

429 CJR rare engine. only used in satags and Torinos

If you ain't afraid (even a little) then you ain't going fast enough!

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Here was my last project. It was a basket case 1971 Corvette non original 350 with an auto trans that I bought at the Charlotte autofair. I did everything on this car myself including paint and body, interior, suspension, building and installing the 454 and converting to manual trans. The only exception was installing the new convertible top. That was way too expensive to screw up for never doing it before. One of the nicest upgrades I did after it was built was adding a tremec 5 speed. That was night and day difference compared to the Muncie.

 

It was a 10 year project that when it was done I had 2 kids so a 2 seater was useless and my interests were far different from when I started! I am also 6'5" 255 so I looked like an ape driving a bumper car!!!!

 

My goal for the Mach is to keep it running and driving so I can enjoy it while I work on it. This way I doubt I ever lose interest.

 

http://s114.photobucket.com/user/BlackRat_Vet/library/corvette

 

Nice looking vette!

 

...I'm a little disappointed, however...couldn't find the ape driving a bumper car pic :)

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You can use your driveshaft and clutch lnkage also.youll need to find motor mounts bellhousing,flywheel and probably front springs and exaust. You can even use your 351 distributor and radiator.

Jay

73 mach1

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Hey man if you want a 429 I have one and the cast iron tail shaft C-6 to go with it out of a 72 Highway patrol car. I also have a Steel crank out of a Super Duty 429. The heads on the HP engine are the same as CJ.

I would go with 351 much better engine and much less cost. If you are interested in engine I am just a few miles away and will never use it.

The 4 speed for the 429 had the large input and the 351 did not unless Boss 351, but you can have that changed to what you want.

David

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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