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One Piece Export/Monte Carlo Brace-Who's interested??


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I emailed Tracy concerning the fabrication of a one piece Monte Carlo/Export brace for our cars, similar to the Maier racing piece. I have the MPG Heads brace but I don't like the fact that it is a multi piece unit. I would rather have a one piece.

 

I am looking for feedback/suggestions as to how it can be fabricated so we can request this from Tracy. I understand the tolerances vary from car to car but I don't know how Maier Racing can get it done with a one piece for the 69 to 70 mustangs

 

Below are the examplea I would like to see for our cars


One more


Last one

image.jpeg.196acaa4d2d9f7e5d366a9644adcc4fd.jpeg

image.jpeg.13fc637e36434ff5d97a509e153b1a97.jpeg

image.jpeg.218d14c803af051a383258e4f36ff3ba.jpeg

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It could have more clearance up front for oversized distributors and such. I think it is a good idea and would prefer something one piece . . . right up until I needed to remove a valve cover. . . .

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Yes you all have a valid point but what I'm after is structural reinforcement. Trying to reduce that shakiness harsh NVH of the front end everytime we hit a bump on the road.

 

Here is where I am with Tracy. PTPE (Pacific Thunder Performance Engineering) is located in Anaheim California. If anybody can briefly take in their car for measuring I will send my aluminum Export/Monte Carlo brace to him so he can re-engineer it into a one piece steel unit.

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Very interested!!!!!

 

Only concern would be shipping costs with something that large.

1971 Mustang Grande, 351 Cleveland 2v, C6, 9"

-Fitech EFI

-Comp Cams 284hr

-Aussie Heads

-Weiand Xcelerator intake

-Long Tube Headers

-Boss Hogg "Street Bandit"

 

 

My Build

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One solution would be to sell a builder's kit with the front bar detached and to be welded up by the user to match their car's dimensions. Then they could offer front bars with varying curvatures for different engine set ups.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Due to the fact that so many of these cars have had aprons and other front structural pieces replaced over the years one size isn't going to fit all. Your going to need to have the front bar adjustable on one side via a turnbuckle arrangement. Take a look at the 2004 350z they come from the factory with a strut tower brace and one side is adjustable via turnbuckle and locking nuts.

LOVE OF BEAUTY IS TASTE..THE CREATION OF BEAUTY IS ART

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Due to the fact that so many of these cars have had aprons and other front structural pieces replaced over the years one size isn't going to fit all. Your going to need to have the front bar adjustable on one side via a turnbuckle arrangement. Take a look at the 2004 350z they come from the factory with a strut tower brace and one side is adjustable via turnbuckle and locking nuts.

 

My thoughts, too. Even without any post production repairs or modifications I believe there was too much production variations for one size to fit all.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Can they sell it with the flanges not drilled? Then each individual will drill the holes where needed.

 

1971 M-code Mach 1

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Can they sell it with the flanges not drilled? Then each individual will drill the holes where needed.

 

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

Yes they can and you have a good idea. All we need to get this going is get a car to Anaheim California for one afternoon.

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Can they sell it with the flanges not drilled? Then each individual will drill the holes where needed.

 

1971 M-code Mach 1

 

Yes they can and you have a good idea. All we need to get this going is get a car to Anaheim California for one afternoon.

 

 

I promise i'll give it back when i'm done...:whistling:

 

But really, I remember when I put a one piece export brace on a 65 FB...had to use a jack to spread out the shock towers about 3/16" to get it to fit.

 

Franks problem with the MPG unit is that it has movable rod ends at all 3 corners so there can be shock tower and body flex.

 

One piece export/monte carlo bar that fits all will be a challenge. You would have a few diff ways to go (these are just brainstorming ideas...i'll just throw them out there):

 

Drill holes oversize and use grade 8 hardware to install it and rely on clamping force to hold the bar in place. 5/16 UNF bolts have over 5000 lbs of clamping force and 3 at each shock tower would be pretty solid. But, you can overdrill so much before it gets sloppy.

 

Make the V to the shock towers solid and the cross bar adjustable. If the V is solid and rigid, the heim joints on the cross bar are only going to see tensile or compression loads so there shouldn't be any movement of the shock towers even if some of the linkage (the cross bar) has more degrees of freedom.

 

Use solid rod ends like these, and have each of the 3 legs be adjustable. Once the unit is adjusted, torque the rod end bolts to hold it all in place and to make it rigid. A 1/2" grade 8 bolt has over 10,000 lbs of clamping force when torqued to spec.

 

RE-RD.JPG

 

 

I like the solid rod end idea actually...it allows for a lot of adjustment. You could probably "fix" the MPG unit by replacing the existing rod ends with solid ones if the existing hardware is strong enough to provide good clamping force.

 

One of the biggest challenges is to get the dimensions correct. Not only is there the distance from the shock towers to the firewall, but the shock towers are at a lower plane and it looks like they angle in a bit. You almost need to make up some plates for all 3 corners, install them on a golden car and then weld in some braces to connect them all together and then remove the part from the car and use it to build a jig.

Tracy Blackford

www.pacificthunderperformance.com

ptpengineering@yahoo.com

Anaheim Hills, CA

 

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Yes you all have a valid point but what I'm after is structural reinforcement. Trying to reduce that shakiness harsh NVH of the front end everytime we hit a bump on the road.

 

Here is where I am with Tracy. PTPE (Pacific Thunder Performance Engineering) is located in Anaheim California. If anybody can briefly take in their car for measuring I will send my aluminum Export/Monte Carlo brace to him so he can re-engineer it into a one piece steel unit.

 

Due to the fact that so many of these cars have had aprons and other front structural pieces replaced over the years one size isn't going to fit all. Your going to need to have the front bar adjustable on one side via a turnbuckle arrangement. Take a look at the 2004 350z they come from the factory with a strut tower brace and one side is adjustable via turnbuckle and locking nuts.

 

 

Calling on Southern California members!!! If anyone can - get with Frank (4mm) and help him get a car to that shop in Anaheim. That will give them a starting point for fabrication.

 

I have to chime in and agree with Scott and others concerning something adjustable.

 

Again - contact 4mm for more details!

 

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ray

1971 Boss 351  

1972 Q code 4 speed convertible 

1971 Mustang Sportsroof  351-2V FMX 

1971 Hardtop (parts car)

1973 Mach 1 (parts car)

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  • 2 months later...

I'm still very interested in getting this done by Tracy at Pacific Thunder Performance.

 

Something along the lines of this. Looks like a good cross between stock and resto-mod. Tracy is offering us some good products for our 123 Mustangs. Hope we can all somehow help him pull off this one.

 

Tracy?

 

 

 

6pryq0.jpg

noty4n.jpg

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I'm in if the finished product does not have any pivot points at the towers. I like how the Maier one has absolutely no pivot points. I understand the need for some adjustment though, maybe put the turnbuckle in the center of the Monte Carlo instead of the ends?

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Just to throw in a thought. I would ask PTP what material they would use to fabricate the parts. Regular hot rolled or cold rolled steel has a min. yield of about 25,000. You can double and triple that strength by using the right raw materials. Chrome molly tube and plate would double the strength. Or HSLA Hight Strength Low Alloy welds better than chrome molly and does not require the welds to be annealed to prevent cracks.

When you stiffen up the chassis you for sure will need the suspension to do a better job since you have less body flex the ride could get pretty rough. An example is the Dodge Viper rides like a wagon. With my height I cannot ride in one without turning my head sideways keeps hitting the roof.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Just to throw in a thought. I would ask PTP what material they would use to fabricate the parts. Regular hot rolled or cold rolled steel has a min. yield of about 25,000. You can double and triple that strength by using the right raw materials. Chrome molly tube and plate would double the strength. Or HSLA Hight Strength Low Alloy welds better than chrome molly and does not require the welds to be annealed to prevent cracks.

When you stiffen up the chassis you for sure will need the suspension to do a better job since you have less body flex the ride could get pretty rough. An example is the Dodge Viper rides like a wagon. With my height I cannot ride in one without turning my head sideways keeps hitting the roof.

 

Hot roll and cold roll is stronger than that. Hot roll A36 has 36,000 psi yield strength and cold roll 1018 has 54,000 psi yield strength. These are minimums and they tend to be stronger than minimum requirements. DOM tube has 72,000 psi minimum yield strength but I was looking at one of the Material Test Data Sheets for some DOM tube I bought and the batch had yield strength in the 90,000 psi range...::thumb:: This brace can be made to be very strong with these materials.

 

Chrome moly 4130 is a little weaker than DOM in its normalized state. I've talked to the old timer welders at the industrial supply store I go to and they say to use ERS70-2 wire and heat the 4130 chrome moly tube to take the chill out if it before welding. I have not used chrome moly for anything yet...haven't needed to. 4340 is strong but more difficult to weld and requires pre-heat, post-heat, etc.

Tracy Blackford

www.pacificthunderperformance.com

ptpengineering@yahoo.com

Anaheim Hills, CA

 

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I'm still very interested in getting this done by Tracy at Pacific Thunder Performance.

 

Something along the lines of this. Looks like a good cross between stock and resto-mod. Tracy is offering us some good products for our 123 Mustangs. Hope we can all somehow help him pull off this one.

 

Tracy?

 

 

6pryq0.jpg

noty4n.jpg

 

I went to the Fabulous Fords Forever show in April and I got some measurements from an accommodating owner. It's not going to be a symmetrical piece as you guys probably know. The drivers side mounting holes on the firewall are further back than the passenger side and the two holes on that side are not inline either. I'll post a dimensional diagram later and hopefully someone can verify my measurements.

Tracy Blackford

www.pacificthunderperformance.com

ptpengineering@yahoo.com

Anaheim Hills, CA

 

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Just to throw in a thought. I would ask PTP what material they would use to fabricate the parts. Regular hot rolled or cold rolled steel has a min. yield of about 25,000. You can double and triple that strength by using the right raw materials. Chrome molly tube and plate would double the strength. Or HSLA Hight Strength Low Alloy welds better than chrome molly and does not require the welds to be annealed to prevent cracks.

When you stiffen up the chassis you for sure will need the suspension to do a better job since you have less body flex the ride could get pretty rough. An example is the Dodge Viper rides like a wagon. With my height I cannot ride in one without turning my head sideways keeps hitting the roof.

 

Hot roll and cold roll is stronger than that. Hot roll A36 has 36,000 psi yield strength and cold roll 1018 has 54,000 psi yield strength. These are minimums and they tend to be stronger than minimum requirements. DOM tube has 72,000 psi minimum yield strength but I was looking at one of the Material Test Data Sheets for some DOM tube I bought and the batch had yield strength in the 90,000 psi range...::thumb:: This brace can be made to be very strong with these materials.

 

Chrome moly 4130 is a little weaker than DOM in its normalized state. I've talked to the old timer welders at the industrial supply store I go to and they say to use ERS70-2 wire and heat the 4130 chrome moly tube to take the chill out if it before welding. I have not used chrome moly for anything yet...haven't needed to. 4340 is strong but more difficult to weld and requires pre-heat, post-heat, etc.

 

It might not be available to you but Domex, from Swedish Steel, is some pretty amazing material. It also welds great. We used it to lighten but strengthen the components in the John Deere combines. They do make DOM tubing here is link to web site, http://www.ssab.com/steelselector. I was a product / process engineer in the automotive and agricultural industry. Also followed the tooling and was an old tool & die maker. Been retired for about 5 years just playing with old cars now.

I just hate to see anyone engineer a product and not take advantage of the latest in the steel market. Take a look might be something you can use to make some killer products with.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is a diagram of the dimensions I took from a car. Could someone verify these and provide the dimensions that I don't have shown with a ?

71-73 mustang dimensions.pdf

Tracy Blackford

www.pacificthunderperformance.com

ptpengineering@yahoo.com

Anaheim Hills, CA

 

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I would give you an entire 73 front from the firewall forward that could go in the back of a pickup. Problem is that I am about 600 miles north of you on I5.

 

Next week I can measure my parts car and get back to you.

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Thanks. My wife would do this :@ if I had that clip laying in the front yard.

 

I would give you an entire 73 front from the firewall forward that could go in the back of a pickup. Problem is that I am about 600 miles north of you on I5.

 

Next week I can measure my parts car and get back to you.

Tracy Blackford

www.pacificthunderperformance.com

ptpengineering@yahoo.com

Anaheim Hills, CA

 

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