Another Dead Starter- Not the Starter After all

7173Mustangs.com

Help Support 7173Mustangs.com:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
May 21, 2014
Messages
295
Reaction score
2
Location
Rhode Island, USA
My Car
73' Mustang Hardtop- 302 2v V8
Car: 73' 302 4bbl automatic

Early this spring I noticed my car would take forever to crank over. The starteR would keep spinning but the carburetor was having trouble getting fuel. Fixed that with a carb rebuild, but noticed the starter was having trouble after that. Brought the battery in and it tested weak from leaving it outside during the winter without a trickle charger.

1) Picked out a new Optima battery with 920CA compared to my old 620CA battery.

2) With the new battery installed nice and tight, I tired turning the key. After turning the key to the on position (just before cranking it over) none of the lights on my dash light up. I knew there was a problem.

3) Replaced the solenoid and the fuse linkage while I was there.

Now I turn the key and see that the dash lights up, but car doesn't try to turn over. I suspect the starter is burnt out even though it only has about 500 miles on it due to trying to crank it over earlier. Crazy though since it is such a new starter.

My father is going to come down and take a look before I spend money on a new starter, but I really don't want to buy another stock version. They are heavy and I have had nothing but problems with them.

Are there any starters you guys would recommend? I read a bit about the DB Electrical starters but they seem too cheap (money-wise) to be true.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elizabeth73,

This may be beyond your issues, check your ground wires. I had a similar problem where the starter would not work. Turn the key and nothing! I finally replaced the Battery ground to the block, cleaned the chassis to engine ground wire, Voroom! She cranked right up!!!! It was one of those dang nab-it moments!

mustang7173

 
Last edited by a moderator:
2X most of the time its only the ground

 
A new solenoid is no guarantee that it is good. Make sure you have wired it correctly and didn't reverse the push on connections.

Good idea on checking/cleaning the grounds.

 
Okay. So Ill check all connections again and give them all a good scrubbing with a brass brush. I believe most of the wiring in the engine bay is all original stuff. Maybe I have a burnt wire somewhere.

So far I know it has something to do with my starter. Ill check it all tomorrow after class. Thanks, Ill let you guys know if I see anything.

 
IMO

If you are buying cheap "rebuilt" starters you may go through a few B4 you ever get

one that's any good ask me how I know.

There is a premium price for a NEW starter and that may be your answer as you get

what you pay for.

Paul

 
As stated above get it tested to see if you need it replaced or not. I went with a Powermaster PowerMax as my original starter wasn't working. I had some troubles reading the instructions and wired it incorrectly the first couple times. But once I had it wired properly it turns over the engine with ease. And the pricing isn't all that bad.

 
Elizabeth73, if all your wiring and connections check ok, I would look at an upgraded starter. Agree on the size and weight of the early stock starters. I had a 289 Mustang with headers and no matter what I did to insulate the starter, the heat continued to fry them. The starter housing was just so large that it made for very cramped quarters in that area.

My 85 GT had a high output starter that was about half the size of an early stock 302 starter, but was still too large. The fix is to use a high torque small case starter. There are several on the market, but I'll give the Ford/Motorcraft numbers since I'm familiar with them. The original application for these is the 5.0 HO engine in the 91-93 T-Bird. New Ford: E9SZ-11002-B (Motorcraft SA-769-A) Reman Ford: E9SZ-11002-BRM (Motorcraft SA-769-BRM) These starters do have a solenoid on them, but a jumper wire is all that is required. There is a Ford kit F2PZ-11K162-A (M/Craft SK-348) that was used for that. All of these numbers can probably be crossed by your favorite parts house. I will say that the Ford units (New or reman) do carry a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty.

As Rocket366 said, you'll pay a little more for a name brand or new unit, but you get what you pay for. And you'll also have something you can trust to get you back home! Here is a link to illustrate the wire kit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-GENUINE-MOTORCRAFT-SK-348-F2PZ-11K162-A-CONVERSION-KIT-/181695768873?hash=item2a4de96929:g:VrMAAOSw34FVDFxh&vxp=mtr

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Most available rebuilt starters have a warranty. If yours is outside the warranty period, you can test it yourself with the battery fully charged and a pair of jumper cables..

I connect the negative jumper cable to the battery negative terminal.. The positive jumper cable to the positive battery terminal and the other end to the insulated stud on the starter. To test the starter, I touch the negative jumper cable to the starter case (usually at the drive end) and if the starter spins over, it's in good condition 9 times out of 10. Don't be afraid of a little sparking, it won't hurt you. You can also hold the starter down on the floor with one hand so it doesn't spin around..

I've done this quick test for years and had great success..

You learn a lot working on these cars without spending money for nothing..

JMHO

 
Okay, its not the starter. The car turns over when I make a connection between the positive and negative sides of the solenoid.

All the fuses are good. My dad suspects it has something to do with my ignition since all the wires are getting juice. We are going to take the steering wheel assembly apart and see if its something in there. Not really sure what I should be looking for.

This wi be the first time I look into parts of the ignition inside the car. I looked up parts of the igniton and quite honestly, I dont know any of them. What is normally replaced in these cars?

 
Did your headlights come on prior when the key was in the off position?
Sorry I was mistaken. Lights work with the key in and the dome light works when I open my car door. Horn works (not sure if that matters, electrical stuff isn't my thing).

-My alternator light does go on when the key is in the "on" position.

-New solenoid

-New fuse linkage

-New battery

-Starter turns over when you connect the two ends of the solenoid

Car just doesn't even try to turn over when I turn the key.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You could try taking jumper cables and running one end of the negative jumper cable from the negative battery terminal and run the other end to the radiator support to get a good ground. Once you try that let us know if your headlights start working. Oh yeah, don't hook the positive jumper cable to anything, you will only need the negative for this test.

 
If it starte bu jumping the solenoid that's good.

The two small wires on the solenoid may be reversed.

1 wire is from the ignition switch and goes to the S terminal.

Other wire goes to the I terminal and supplys battery voltage to the coil while cranking.

Jump the small S terminal to the battery side of the solenoid and starter should crank.

Check that one small wire has voltage with test light with key in cranking position

and on the S terminal.

If no voltage than could be Ignition switch or fusable link wire off the batt side of solenoid.

Headlights will operate without the key in ignition.

Paul

 
If it starte bu jumping the solenoid that's good.

The two small wires on the solenoid may be reversed.

1 wire is from the ignition switch and goes to the S terminal.

Other wire goes to the I terminal and supplys battery voltage to the coil while cranking.

Jump the small S terminal to the battery side of the solenoid and starter should crank.

Check that one small wire has voltage with test light with key in cranking position

and on the S terminal.

If no voltage than could be Ignition switch or fusable link wire off the batt side of solenoid.

Headlights will operate without the key in ignition.

Paul
Weird. My headlights only come on when the ignition is in the on position.

 
If it starte bu jumping the solenoid that's good.

The two small wires on the solenoid may be reversed.

1 wire is from the ignition switch and goes to the S terminal.

Other wire goes to the I terminal and supplys battery voltage to the coil while cranking.

Jump the small S terminal to the battery side of the solenoid and starter should crank.

Check that one small wire has voltage with test light with key in cranking position

and on the S terminal.

If no voltage than could be Ignition switch or fusable link wire off the batt side of solenoid.

Headlights will operate without the key in ignition.

Paul
Are you talking about the two wires that push on the two small front solenoid "bolts"?

Let me reverse those and see if that gets me anywhere. However, the problem existed before I even touched the old solenoid or wires. So they were in the right way before.

 
Are you talking about the two wires that push on the two small front solenoid "bolts"?

Let me reverse those and see if that gets me anywhere. However, the problem existed before I even touched the old solenoid or wires. So they were in the right way before.

YES

Let us know test results.

Paul


So if there is NO POWER to the S terminal wire to solenoid with key in crank position I would be

thinking ignition switch has gone bad. I think there are a couple different ignition switches used

on these cars depending on the date of manufacture. you can search this site for that info.

keep your chin up these cars are simple compared to what we drive today.

You have the support of many ppl here good luck Liz.

Paul

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top