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71 429 cj vert engine tear down...


Guest Pastel Blue
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Makes you wonder what happened to the other 6 "good" rods, and what was in the PO's mind.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Slap this in there while you are at it along with a radical solid roller cam. :D

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BB-FORD-532-FORGED-ROTATING-ASSEMBLY-STROKER-KIT-/300379583021?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Guest Pastel Blue

barnett468 is correct on the "BB" cam. That is the stock 429/460 camshaft (C8SZ-6250-A). The 429 CJ/Police Interceptor I built for my Gran Torino had the bolt on pickup tube and screen. The "N" code 429 Thunder Jet I pulled from the same car had the press in tube.

Pastel, as "Cobbled" as the previous rebuild was, and for the engine to still be running, just goes to show you how insanely tough these Beast's are! I know you hate to see all the bad repairs exposed as your $$ continue to fly out of your pocket. As one who has followed your build from your first posting, I cringe a little as the rest of us do, at each half a$$ repair that is uncovered.

I know the completion is still way down the road, but the end result of having a very rare J code vert that will have a sound none of the new cars can match, hopefully keeps you going!

......

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Guest Pastel Blue

Slap this in there while you are at it along with a radical solid roller cam. :D

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BB-FORD-532-FORGED-ROTATING-ASSEMBLY-STROKER-KIT-/300379583021?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

Well, you know Ford's intent was to surpass the 500 ci plateau wither these cars and this engine. All over by the time '72 rolled around... I would say that kit is a tad tall for my little vert...

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have the guy install the top LOOSE and inspect it before he gets it all on . every top guy makes them way too tight s you can barely latch them . then they tell you that the material will stretch and be fine which it will not . three of the best top mfgs are easy on, acme, and robbins . get the double texture type.

 

the site below has some orig ac parts also . i just got some for my 428 cobra jet.

 

http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/

 

mansfield mustang has many nos parts including ac parts.

 

http://www.mansfieldmustang.com/

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Guest Pastel Blue

Just thought I would throw this up, not particularly interesting or overly important in itself. However, this is one of the times you are happy that 20+ years ago you purchased that $25 swap meet water pump and stuck it away on a shelf...

 

......

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Great updates. Keep sharing as you move along.

BKDunha

72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)

67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)

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I just got caught up on your engine thread this morning with coffee. I can confirm that the SD-429 from Ford Trucks has the same rods, numbers same, and bolts as the 72 429-PI, football. I was given one of the Super Duty engines out of a Budweiser beer deliver truck. It had blown a head gasket and they never fooled around with trying to rebuild an engine they just put a new one in. The crank in the SD is also Forged Steel instead of Cast. It might have a different balance than the PI, CJ and SCJ I am not up on that, internal verses external. The snout of the crank is much larger on the SD than the PI for sure. I don't know if it could be turned down and put into a PI, CJ or SCJ to get a better crank or not.

It looks like you for sure had a botched up rebuild by PO.

There was lots of 429 parts at the Charlotte swap meet this spring should not be difficult to find your needed parts.

Hope you can get a piston mfg. to make a custom set to just allow hone of the block and not a bore. In the shop I was in we had our own piston grinder so we could make any size we wanted. It was old but still worked.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Was cruising around local cl and here is a set of 429 CJ rods if your interested. Asking $125 still has the old Ford pistons on them one a little crunched. In Tennessee.

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pts/5676169039.html

Looks like same guy has heads and block also for sale.

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pts/5675420404.html

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pts/5675396627.html

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Guest Pastel Blue

Was cruising around local cl and here is a set of 429 CJ rods if your interested. Asking $125 still has the old Ford pistons on them one a little crunched. In Tennessee.

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pts/5676169039.html

Looks like same guy has heads and block also for sale.

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pts/5675420404.html

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pts/5675396627.html

 

......

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you need a new timing cover.

 

it was likely out of balance due to the different rods.

 

Yes, agreed, new cover necessary. Good thought on the different rods causing the extensive overall engine wear.

 

I disagree on the needing a new timing cover. Where the hole is there is just a void behind it so no water will go in the block. Also if your water pump has a back plate water wont be in that part of the timing cover to begin with.

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you need a new timing cover.

 

Yes, agreed, new cover necessary. Good thought on the different rods causing the extensive overall engine wear.

 

I disagree on the needing a new timing cover. Where the hole is there is just a void behind it so no water will go in the block. Also if your water pump has a back plate water won't be in that part of the timing cover to begin with.

 

He needs a new timing cover . That damage is from corrosion from water that came from somewhere . Rebuilding an engine is an expensive process and takes a lot of time, and to cheap out and not spend $41.00 to $78.00 for a new one when the current one has a hole the size of the grand canyon is not prudent . This is also for a car that might be worth around $80,000.00 fully restored so I see no point in trying to cut corners just to save a couple dollars on a critical part.

 

NEW TIMING COVER

 

$41.00

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-429-7-0L-460-7-5L-TIMING-COVER-KIT-69-97-/170501161887?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

$78.00

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/50301/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710565196&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-194567929031:pla-207804007511&gclid=CK3TzZmj_c0CFQNufgodeV4DGA

 

.

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Guest Pastel Blue

 

Yes, agreed, new cover necessary. Good thought on the different rods causing the extensive overall engine wear.

 

I disagree on the needing a new timing cover. Where the hole is there is just a void behind it so no water will go in the block. Also if your water pump has a back plate water won't be in that part of the timing cover to begin with.

 

He needs a new timing cover . That damage is from corrosion from water that came from somewhere . Rebuilding an engine is an expensive process and takes a lot of time, and to cheap out and not spend $41.00 to $78.00 for a new one when the current one has a hole the size of the grand canyon is not prudent . This is also for a car that might be worth around $80,000.00 fully restored so I see no point in trying to cut corners just to save a couple dollars on a critical part.

 

NEW TIMING COVER

 

$41.00

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-429-7-0L-460-7-5L-TIMING-COVER-KIT-69-97-/170501161887?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

$78.00

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/50301/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710565196&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-194567929031:pla-207804007511&gclid=CK3TzZmj_c0CFQNufgodeV4DGA

 

.

 

It will be replaced, was my goal along.

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I disagree on the needing a new timing cover. Where the hole is there is just a void behind it so no water will go in the block. Also if your water pump has a back plate water won't be in that part of the timing cover to begin with.

 

He needs a new timing cover . That damage is from corrosion from water that came from somewhere . Rebuilding an engine is an expensive process and takes a lot of time, and to cheap out and not spend $41.00 to $78.00 for a new one when the current one has a hole the size of the grand canyon is not prudent . This is also for a car that might be worth around $80,000.00 fully restored so I see no point in trying to cut corners just to save a couple dollars on a critical part.

 

NEW TIMING COVER

 

$41.00

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-429-7-0L-460-7-5L-TIMING-COVER-KIT-69-97-/170501161887?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

$78.00

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/50301/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710565196&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-194567929031:pla-207804007511&gclid=CK3TzZmj_c0CFQNufgodeV4DGA

 

.

 

Not an issue, it WILL be replaced... I understand why you might not think it needs replacing, but reinstalling it and you would be down to the last line of defense (outer housing) by reusing the original piece. Not willing to take that chance... this is the time to change a cover like this. Cheers.

 

Ok. You don't have to use parts you're not comfortable with. Just thought I would speak up so you know not everyone is in consensus that the part is bad.

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When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

 

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

 

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

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Guest Pastel Blue

When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

 

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

 

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side beffore they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

 

......

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When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

 

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

 

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

 

So here's the thing. People come on here to get the opinions of others. I gave mine. Pastel Blue already decided to replace the part. Great, our opinions inform they don't decide. But you have gotten on your soapbox twice now to shout me down, and that is uncalled for. So, since you've called me out twice now I will explain my position.

 

That hole he's got in his timing cover is common in many 385 series engines. If you were to look at it in your hands you would see that corroded from the inside out. Also on the back side of the cover you will see that the hole is completely surrounded by metal. If you look at the block you will see a matching void in it. It's just a recess, nothing is there and a gasket completely seals it. I know these things because I have these things sitting in my garage right now as well as it being a fairly common topic at 460ford.com.

Now the reason I would use this on a restore is because of its engineering code. The cover is an external part and can easily be checked to see it is ford made or not. As such even if I personally wanted to replace it in this instance, it would be with a ford made period correct cover, which would most likely cost more than the one you found on jegs. It would also have a high chance of being thin in the exact same spot, because like I said it's a common occurrence. Keep in mind i don't think the part is actually broke. On 460s you can run water pumps without a backplate on it, but it causes cavitation, and In this instance water would go in the hole. Again this would cause zero damage to the engine because it doesn't go anywhere and is sealed by gasket. But that point is moot. Nearly everyone runs a backplate so no water will be in that area at all meaning there will be two walls between the water and the inside of the engine.

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When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

 

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

 

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

 

So here's the thing. People come on here to get the opinions of others. I gave mine. Pastel Blue already decided to replace the part. Great, our opinions inform they don't decide. But you have gotten on your soapbox twice now to shout me down, and that is uncalled for. So, since you've called me out twice now I will explain my position.

 

That hole he's got in his timing cover is common in many 385 series engines. If you were to look at it in your hands you would see that corroded from the inside out. Also on the back side of the cover you will see that the hole is completely surrounded by metal. If you look at the block you will see a matching void in it. It's just a recess, nothing is there and a gasket completely seals it. I know these things because I have these things sitting in my garage right now as well as it being a fairly common topic at 460ford.com.

Now the reason I would use this on a restore is because of its engineering code. The cover is an external part and can easily be checked to see it is ford made or not. As such even if I personally wanted to replace it in this instance, it would be with a ford made period correct cover, which would most likely cost more than the one you found on jegs. It would also have a high chance of being thin in the exact same spot, because like I said it's a common occurrence. Keep in mind i don't think the part is actually broke. On 460s you can run water pumps without a backplate on it, but it causes cavitation, and In this instance water would go in the hole. Again this would cause zero damage to the engine because it doesn't go anywhere and is sealed by gasket. But that point is moot. Nearly everyone runs a backplate so no water will be in that area at all meaning there will be two walls between the water and the inside of the engine.

 

The re-pops are hit and miss as far as quality and fitment. The OP can research that on the 460 forum as well. Caveat emptor.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

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::thumb::

When someone does a quality rebuild they use quality parts . they do not use timing covers with massive corrosion and holes in them even if they might work for year or a month or a week . they do not use used, worn, pistons or used rings or used bearings or old water pumps either.

 

Could that timing cover be used? . Well even if it could, since it is already so heavily corroded, I don't know why anyone would suggest that it be reused, especially since they are inexpensive. Is the person suggesting it be reused going to fly over and spend 10 hours changing it for the guy if it fails?

 

One would also need t see the back side of the cover and inside of the water port on that side before they could even begin to speculate whether it could be reused or not, and since none of those photos have been posted, I for one certainly can't make that speculation.

 

So here's the thing. People come on here to get the opinions of others. I gave mine. Pastel Blue already decided to replace the part. Great, our opinions inform they don't decide. But you have gotten on your soapbox twice now to shout me down, and that is uncalled for. So, since you've called me out twice now I will explain my position.

 

That hole he's got in his timing cover is common in many 385 series engines. If you were to look at it in your hands you would see that corroded from the inside out. Also on the back side of the cover you will see that the hole is completely surrounded by metal. If you look at the block you will see a matching void in it. It's just a recess, nothing is there and a gasket completely seals it. I know these things because I have these things sitting in my garage right now as well as it being a fairly common topic at 460ford.com.

Now the reason I would use this on a restore is because of its engineering code. The cover is an external part and can easily be checked to see it is ford made or not. As such even if I personally wanted to replace it in this instance, it would be with a ford made period correct cover, which would most likely cost more than the one you found on jegs. It would also have a high chance of being thin in the exact same spot, because like I said it's a common occurrence. Keep in mind i don't think the part is actually broke. On 460s you can run water pumps without a backplate on it, but it causes cavitation, and In this instance water would go in the hole. Again this would cause zero damage to the engine because it doesn't go anywhere and is sealed by gasket. But that point is moot. Nearly everyone runs a backplate so no water will be in that area at all meaning there will be two walls between the water and the inside of the engine.

 

I have not tried to "shut you down" as you imply and I am not on a "soap box" as your lengthy reply claims . I merely expanded on my opinion, it's that simple . Furthermore, if someone doesn't have fifty to $100.00 bucks to by a good timing cover for their ultra rare car, it is my opinion that they may be better off buying a car that they can afford to fix properly . The cover has a massive hole it . This implies that there are other areas that are also likely thin and without having more detailed photos of the cover AFTER it is clean or having the cover in hand to personally inspect it, in my opinion, it is far safer just to suggest he get another one unless he cleans it and looks the rest f it over very carefully . In my opinion, Pastel Blue now has sufficient information to make a reasonably informed decision about the cover, therefore, I see no reason to continue debating whether it should e changed or not.

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If you prefer an orig Ford cover, they are not hard to find . The one in the link below looks decent but I would ask for a few more close up photos of other areas before I bought it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-460-7-5L-TIMING-COVER-1969-1985-USED-OEM-D2VE-6059-AA-/381558821952?hash=item58d6ad9440:g:RDoAAOSwPc9W1dKN&vxp=mtr

 

 

Also, since your car is a 71, it may have come with a C8SE part number on the cover. not the D2 you currently have. . There is a date code on it.

 

February or March 1971 timing cover

 

tc429-001.jpg

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