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U.K Laws on indicators


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I'd actually considered converting the '71 sport lamps to clear lenses and either using them as DRLs or driving lights (by hacking up the backs and grafting in a set of similar-sized driving light reflectors).

 

What I want to know is, what the heck are the Euro city lights for? I mean, there are some low-watt bulbs in the headlight fixtures that look like all they do is help drain the battery (and when they're on, they look like they've all but drained the battery, as dim as they are).

Eric

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Ok Pegleg, I'm a Brit, now well converted to US / Canadian ways of speaking.

You are correct on turn and brake lights. Running lights can be nighttime lights, i.e. side markers, grill lights etc. other than or including main headlights. Some areas of the US do not use DAYLIGHT running lights, so in those areas, running lights only mean nighttime. In most of Canada, daylight running lights are the law for cars newer than (I think) 1990 or there-about, similar to the UK. Best idea ever and should be mandatory on all vehicles. I often drive with my sidelights on in daytime. Sidelights, there's another one. That means all lights EXCEPT headlights. As my Mach 1 is a 1971, I am not required to have daylight running lights.

Hope that helps get you Americanized!!

Geoff.

 

Thank You Geoff. My new Nissan has lights on permanently so if i understand it correctly those are my running lights. Here in the U.K now all cars are made that way though not sure when it became law (as passed by the European union) here and Europe.

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Ok Pegleg, I'm a Brit, now well converted to US / Canadian ways of speaking.

You are correct on turn and brake lights. Running lights can be nighttime lights, i.e. side markers, grill lights etc. other than or including main headlights. Some areas of the US do not use DAYLIGHT running lights, so in those areas, running lights only mean nighttime. In most of Canada, daylight running lights are the law for cars newer than (I think) 1990 or there-about, similar to the UK. Best idea ever and should be mandatory on all vehicles. I often drive with my sidelights on in daytime. Sidelights, there's another one. That means all lights EXCEPT headlights. As my Mach 1 is a 1971, I am not required to have daylight running lights.

Hope that helps get you Americanized!!

Geoff.

 

Thank You Geoff. My new Nissan has lights on permanently so if i understand it correctly those are my running lights. Here in the U.K now all cars are made that way though not sure when it became law (as passed by the European union) here and Europe.

 

Steve, I just saw something that needs clarification in my above comment. Newer cars in most of Canada do have daylight running lights on permanently. Where I said I often drive with my sidelights on, I meant while I'm driving the Mustang.

My question is: how do others with older classics satisfy the law if they were never made that way?? There must be loads of guys trying to figure out what to do.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Steve, I just saw something that needs clarification in my above comment. Newer cars in most of Canada do have daylight running lights on permanently. Where I said I often drive with my sidelights on, I meant while I'm driving the Mustang.

My question is: how do others with older classics satisfy the law if they were never made that way?? There must be loads of guys trying to figure out what to do.

 

There is no law that states you have to have running lights on during daylight hours if your car was built before running lights were fitted as standard when the car was manufactured.

The definition of a "Classic Car" in the U.K is a vehicle built more than 40 years ago( Classic Car defined in law for the purpose of road tax exemption).

Therefore the law in the U.K encompasses modern cars as well as classic cars where running lights are defined. The following statement has been copied from The AA website. As you will see below daylight running lights are slightly differant to the sidelights on older vehicles. The laws set out below are European laws which apply in the U.K.

 

"European legislation adopted in 2008 required dedicated daytime running lights (DRL) to be fitted to all new 'types' of passenger cars and small delivery vans since February 2011. Trucks and buses followed from August 2012".

 

"This does not mean that every new car first registered after February 2011 will have DRL fitted. The requirement only applies to models that go through the European whole vehicle type approval process after that date i.e. new or substantially facelifted models".

 

"There is no requirement to retro-fit DRLs to existing cars and no Europe-wide requirement for drivers of cars without daytime running lights to drive with headlights on during the day".

 

"Daytime running lights must be bright enough that they can be seen clearly in daylight and as a result are too bright to be used at night time when they would cause dazzle. Daytime running lights should therefore go off automatically when headlights or sidelights are switched on".

 

"Daytime running lights don't have to be separate lights - some car manufacturers combine them with the front position lamps (side lights) in which case the daytime running lights will dim when the headlights are turned on".

 

"If daytime running lights are located very close to indicator lights then the DRL on the appropriate side of the vehicle must turn off while the indicator is operating to avoid masking its signal".

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/daytime-running-lights.html

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Yeah, pretty much the same here re running lights.

As for my question, did it in a hurry, what I meant to refer to was the original question about turn signals, sorry, indicators. How do other handle that dilemma? Sorry for the confusion.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Heres a link to road tax costs across differant vehicles. The size of engine no longer defines the amount of road tax you pay. Road tax is now based on the amount of pollution your vehicle emits as well as engine size. The pollution is based on tests done when a manufacturer makes the vehicle it is classified into a catagory of CO2. So years down the line the vehicle makes more CO2 but will not fall into a differant catagory. All electric cars are tax exempt

 

You will see tax discs are no longer issued. Most police cars are now fitted with A.N.P.R, Automatic Number Plate Recognition. Driving License, Road tax, M.O.T & Insurance are all stored on a central database which the police have full access. If a car passes a police car a system will read number plate of passing vehicles and a alarm will sound in the police car if a car does not have one or more of the following; M.O.T, Tax, Insurance, Driver has a license. Failure to have all four up to date will result in your car being towed away and impounded. If you do not pay the fees for release and produce up to date documents your car will be crushed. It is virtually impossible to drive illegally in the U.K today.

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_roadtax.html

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Heres a link to road tax costs across differant vehicles. The size of engine no longer defines the amount of road tax you pay. Road tax is now based on the amount of pollution your vehicle emits as well as engine size. The pollution is based on tests done when a manufacturer makes the vehicle it is classified into a catagory of CO2. So years down the line the vehicle makes more CO2 but will not fall into a differant catagory. All electric cars are tax exempt

 

You will see tax discs are no longer issued. Most police cars are now fitted with A.N.P.R, Automatic Number Plate Recognition. Driving License, Road tax, M.O.T & Insurance are all stored on a central database which the police have full access. If a car passes a police car a system will read number plate of passing vehicles and a alarm will sound in the police car if a car does not have one or more of the following; M.O.T, Tax, Insurance, Driver has a license. Failure to have all four up to date will result in your car being towed away and impounded. If you do not pay the fees for release and produce up to date documents your car will be crushed. It is virtually impossible to drive illegally in the U.K today.

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_roadtax.html

Wow! I wonder what the return on investment is on that program? V

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Yeah, pretty much the same here re running lights.

As for my question, did it in a hurry, what I meant to refer to was the original question about turn signals, sorry, indicators. How do other handle that dilemma? Sorry for the confusion.

 

I am new to American cars so my network of owners is limited. I am sure as time goes by i will build up my network of owners here in the U.K. Once my car finally becomes legal to drive i will be joining other American car owners that meet up once a month for a run out.

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Yeah, pretty much the same here re running lights.

As for my question, did it in a hurry, what I meant to refer to was the original question about turn signals, sorry, indicators. How do other handle that dilemma? Sorry for the confusion.

 

I am new to American cars so my network of owners is limited. I am sure as time goes by i will build up my network of owners here in the U.K. Once my car finally becomes legal to drive i will be joining other American car owners that meet up once a month for a run out.

 

I wish you luck and good times ahead. I'm sure there are Mustang clubs in the UK. A Google search might help. Going back to fixing your problem, someone mentioned an LED circuit board that uses the back-up lamp for both turn and back-up. That sounds like a plan to me.

Actually I saw my very first Mach 1 Mustang in Birmingham in 1972 and fell in love! It was Grabber Lime, black interior, black hockey stripes, nasa hood and spoilers...... freakin awesome...... and still my dream car. I have owned 4 Mach 1's, but not the Grabber Lime... YET!!

(could have painted my current car, till I found the history on it)

All the best of British,

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Yeah, pretty much the same here re running lights.

As for my question, did it in a hurry, what I meant to refer to was the original question about turn signals, sorry, indicators. How do other handle that dilemma? Sorry for the confusion.

 

I am new to American cars so my network of owners is limited. I am sure as time goes by i will build up my network of owners here in the U.K. Once my car finally becomes legal to drive i will be joining other American car owners that meet up once a month for a run out.

 

I wish you luck and good times ahead. I'm sure there are Mustang clubs in the UK. A Google search might help. Going back to fixing your problem, someone mentioned an LED circuit board that uses the back-up lamp for both turn and back-up. That sounds like a plan to me.

Actually I saw my very first Mach 1 Mustang in Birmingham in 1972 and fell in love! It was Grabber Lime, black interior, black hockey stripes, nasa hood and spoilers...... freakin awesome...... and still my dream car. I have owned 4 Mach 1's, but not the Grabber Lime... YET!!

(could have painted my current car, till I found the history on it)

All the best of British,

Geoff.

 

I ordered the circuitboard yesterday and it arrived today!!!!!!! Now thats service :D

 

Yeah mine WAS Grabber Lime till someone painted it. I am looking forward to stripping back to bare metal and bringing it back to factory Grabber Lime. Though my interior is 4R Green and a Grande i am sure when it gets done it will be stunning with the White vinyl roof. I will be sure to post pictures when work finally starts on it

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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I am new to American cars so my network of owners is limited. I am sure as time goes by i will build up my network of owners here in the U.K. Once my car finally becomes legal to drive i will be joining other American car owners that meet up once a month for a run out.

 

I wish you luck and good times ahead. I'm sure there are Mustang clubs in the UK. A Google search might help. Going back to fixing your problem, someone mentioned an LED circuit board that uses the back-up lamp for both turn and back-up. That sounds like a plan to me.

Actually I saw my very first Mach 1 Mustang in Birmingham in 1972 and fell in love! It was Grabber Lime, black interior, black hockey stripes, nasa hood and spoilers...... freakin awesome...... and still my dream car. I have owned 4 Mach 1's, but not the Grabber Lime... YET!!

(could have painted my current car, till I found the history on it)

All the best of British,

Geoff.

 

I ordered the circuitboard yesterday and it arrived today!!!!!!! Now thats service :D

 

Yeah mine WAS Grabber Lime till someone painted it. I am looking forward to stripping back to bare metal and bringing it back to factory Grabber Lime. Though my interior is 4R Green and a Grandé i am sure when it gets done it will be stunning with the White vinyl roof. I will be sure to post pictures when work finally starts on it

 

That's going to be awesome!! My preference would be for a black interior, but that's your call. Look forward to seeing pictures as you get her done. Post pics of the lights when you're done.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I wish you luck and good times ahead. I'm sure there are Mustang clubs in the UK. A Google search might help. Going back to fixing your problem, someone mentioned an LED circuit board that uses the back-up lamp for both turn and back-up. That sounds like a plan to me.

Actually I saw my very first Mach 1 Mustang in Birmingham in 1972 and fell in love! It was Grabber Lime, black interior, black hockey stripes, nasa hood and spoilers...... freakin awesome...... and still my dream car. I have owned 4 Mach 1's, but not the Grabber Lime... YET!!

(could have painted my current car, till I found the history on it)

All the best of British,

Geoff.

 

I ordered the circuitboard yesterday and it arrived today!!!!!!! Now thats service :D

 

Yeah mine WAS Grabber Lime till someone painted it. I am looking forward to stripping back to bare metal and bringing it back to factory Grabber Lime. Though my interior is 4R Green and a Grandé i am sure when it gets done it will be stunning with the White vinyl roof. I will be sure to post pictures when work finally starts on it

 

That's going to be awesome!! My preference would be for a black interior, but that's your call. Look forward to seeing pictures as you get her done. Post pics of the lights when you're done.

 

The rest of my parts should be here Tues/Wednesday so with a bit of luck the work should be done by next Friday-Monday. Will load a video up if i can work it out. It should be easy enough :chin:

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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  • 3 months later...

Any update on this Pegleg? I'm just interested after stumbling upon this thread. :)

 

The garage that done all the work for, and issued, M.O.T left the turn signals red(Owner of the garage has owned American cars/trucks all his adult life and now in his early 70's)

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Any update on this Pegleg? I'm just interested after stumbling upon this thread. :)

 

The garage that done all the work for, and issued, M.O.T left the turn signals red(Owner of the garage has owned American cars/trucks all his adult life and now in his early 70's)

 

Hmmm. It's great that you have an understanding vehicle inspector and all, but if you're pulled over for the infraction - despite having a valid certification - aren't you, or more specifically the vehicle inspector issuing the certificate, at risk for some kind of penalty, fine, etc., because the car was blessed with a known violation?

 

I'm just curious, because U.S. vehicle inspectors are liable for violations when pursued, and could lose their license, have fines imposed, and other punitive bad things, depending on the severity of the incident the violations are discovered (i.e., resulting vehicle accident with loss of life, etc.). I'm just wondering who takes the brunt if a violation citation is issued - seems like it shouldn't be your fault, since the inspector passed it.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm glad you got a 'common sense' solution to your issue (which seems like kind of a nit-picking law, to be honest), but I'd be weary of the potential for something bad to happen since the light configuration is [apparently] still not in compliance with the vehicle code.

Eric

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I am told by other Classic American owners that if stopped by the police they will just tell you to get them changed.

As for the garage issuing MOT i don't think they would be penalised.

From what i have seen on TV, whether it be right or not, there seems to be a big culture in the US for suing people for vast sums of money for the slightest thing. Here in the UK we don't really have that culture.

The car will be showed at shows once restored. In the meantime it will only be on the road while it goes to mechanics and bodyshop for paint

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Hopefully, that'll be the case. I'd be more concerned that you get that one traffic enforcer that isn't so accommodating and decides to write you up - that was my point (being excessively charged, rather than getting sued by our lawsuit-happy society. ;)

 

Our traffic enforcers tend to place the blame more on the vehicle inspectors, especially when it's obvious the car was simply passed with violations. To which they usually reply, "Hey - it was good when they brought it to me." :shootself:

 

Sounds like you have a good handle on it, though. ::thumb::

Eric

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