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1971 Grande Concourse Restoration


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So the first phase, getting the car roadworthy & a M.O.T, was completed a couple of months ago.

Now i am on to the second phase which is pulling the engine out and checking the guts inside the engine plus gearbox. I will be replacing all the bolts with the AMK engine bolt kit and buying the concourse correct belts and hoses from Marti. I have dropped the car off yesterday to a competent mechanic. If anyone is interested the Mechanic has a Facebook page and you can follow the second phase via this link to Facebook;

https://www.facebook.com/DSMotorsportUK/

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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I have ordered all the belts, hoses and cables today from Marti Auto Works. Not sure of the final bill as the shipping is international(UK)

Dropped the front and rear bumper off at the chromers. The rear bumper needs repair so once its stripped the chromers will offer it up to the car to ensure its a perfect fit and he has got the repair right. Once he knows its right it will be re-chromed

1457686352_MartiAutoWorks.PNG.837450f8afa3dc2df6303a5ed11178f7.PNG

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Guest Pastel Blue

I have seen your posts about wanting to bring your car back to a concourse (street driven?) level. Not to burst your bubble, but this is a huge undertaking, in terms of time commitment, $$$, research, hiring various professionals to complete those aspects of your car that you are not able to do. Etc. I cannot stress enough the fact that you also have to know these cars inside/out or you will be required to rely on all of the "experts" out there, some truly are, but they are few and far between... stay close to those you have confidence in.

 

To do a concourse restoration right, it needs to be taken off the road, stripped down completely, every part catalogued, 100's of pictures taken of every move you make so that you have both proper evidence of how the car came from the factory and also very important; an accurate guide to help put the car back together again properly. Ask B Dunkha on this forum what he went through to complete his car recently. I know there are others here that can chime in also, when looking to complete a truly concourse level type restoration.

 

More then likely your car will Need to be media blasted, parts chemically dipped/stripped, and as you are finding out, ordering parts from the USA and having them shipped to England will cost you an arm and a leg. I am 30 mins from the border in Ontario and I pay dearly.... the most recent example I can think of was a purchase i made yesterday for a single witteck clamp that will cost me $90 by the time it reaches my door. I can only imagine the shipping costs you will be faced with and these costs are going up every day as i am finding out... The worst, is if you purchase off big the world wide auction site, they have fees upon fees... I sometimes am paying more in postage fees then what I pay for some of the actual parts...

 

I did not keep track of the postage, duties etc, but it is in the $1000's now... Thankfully, at this stage of my restoration, I am actually winding down on purchases.

 

My car needed every piece, every nut and bolt re done in some form or manner. There is not a single piece of the original car that I was able to say, leave that as is...

 

The biggest expense will be the body and paint, a true concourse job is not going to come cheap if you cannot complete yourself, ask me how I know... i had no intention of doing the body and paint, I searched out a top level shop and the got the cheque book ready...I will have at least $15k in the engine rebuild when all is said and done, but it's all the other parts that will eat away at your budget every day... I will have in excess of $100k in my restoration when completed, not including what I paid for it. I will never recoup my investment no matter how nice the car turns out, but I knew this going in. It's not about money for me, granted, the car will be worth a good dollar once done, but that is due mainly to the rarity of this particular car. I am at a stage in my life/career that I am able to make this commitment, once it starts, there is no turning back on a concourse type restoration. If you do stop midstream, you will have spent a lot of money, time and energy for naught. Please keep this in mind as you start to invest all of your hard earned cash into your Grande looking to do a concourse restoration.

 

I wish you the best in your journey, I have about a year to go to finish mine completely.

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Pastel Blue Thank You for taking the time to write what you have.

I don't intend driving the car. It will be driven to shows when it finally gets finished at some point in the future. When i made my decision to go concourse i felt it was the only option for my first American Classic. I understand that i will be pouring money into this project and maybe never recoup what i have invested. On the upside of that classic cars will only ever gain in value so at some point in the future it will be worth what i have invested. If i don't do it concourse i will always look at the car and regret what i have or have not done. Its in my nature and character to be a perfectionist. Anything less it's just a waste of time and effort. People like yourself and B Dunkha will be invaluable in the future as not only a reference point and information & more importantly where to source the exact part i am going to need.

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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You guys have my respect - there's no way I could've gone concourse with mine.

 

However, I think there are a couple of misconceptions, regarding concourse restorations.

 

Fact: Concourse-level restorations demand that every detail be addressed. I label this as more "mostly true," because it all depends on the level of the car's condition when you first start out. Mine, being a pile of rust in the shape of a Mach 1 would never have been a good candidate for concourse restoration.

 

Fact: Concourse vehicles only increase in value. Not necessarily so. If it takes you $20,000 to restore your vehicle to concourse levels, and the market value is only $15K, you've just risked losing $5K. Granted, the actual worth of any vehicle is what someone is willing to pay for it... but the market values are usually the point in which negotiations begin. Something to keep in mind is the popularity, rarity, and intrinsic value of the make/model/trim-level of your car to maintain a 'realistic' perspective. For instance (and I'm not throwing rocks here), a 1 of 1 Grande' coupe will never command the same market value as a Boss 351. All I'm saying is just be prepared for the car to not be 'worth' usually anything close to what you have into it, as Pastel Blue said (I know I have over $40K into mine, and I would never get that back because it's 'just' an H-Code Mach 1 - with a value ceiling around $25K).

 

Fact: Once you start a concourse restoration, you can't turn back. I totally disagree. You can start/stop/change direction at any time. What you will end up with is whatever you put into it. For instance, if you get everything mechanically correct, and decide at the last minute to throw on a set of Cragar S/Ss with BFGs, you haven't "ruined" anything. In order to compete in the concourse class, you'll need to continue in the concourse direction by removing the Cragars & BFGs and fitting the proper wheels once again. Things certainly get more complicated when you start talking about changing things like paint colors, upholstery, etc.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade anybody from going down the concourse road. I just know it's not for me because I want to actually enjoy the car after I put that much work into it. With concourse, the ways your can enjoy your car and still maintain its concourse-level/value, are usually different than what most people would describe as 'enjoyment.'

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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Guest Pastel Blue

You guys have my respect - there's no way I could've gone concourse with mine.

 

However, I think there are a couple of misconceptions, regarding concourse restorations.

 

Fact: Concourse-level restorations demand that every detail be addressed. I label this as more "mostly true," because it all depends on the level of the car's condition when you first start out. Mine, being a pile of rust in the shape of a Mach 1 would never have been a good candidate for concourse restoration.

 

Fact: Concourse vehicles only increase in value. Not necessarily so. If it takes you $20,000 to restore your vehicle to concourse levels, and the market value is only $15K, you've just risked losing $5K. Granted, the actual worth of any vehicle is what someone is willing to pay for it... but the market values are usually the point in which negotiations begin. Something to keep in mind is the popularity, rarity, and intrinsic value of the make/model/trim-level of your car to maintain a 'realistic' perspective. For instance (and I'm not throwing rocks here), a 1 of 1 Grandé' coupe will never command the same market value as a Boss 351. All I'm saying is just be prepared for the car to not be 'worth' usually anything close to what you have into it, as Pastel Blue said (I know I have over $40K into mine, and I would never get that back because it's 'just' an H-Code Mach 1 - with a value ceiling around $25K).

 

Fact: Once you start a concourse restoration, you can't turn back. I totally disagree. You can start/stop/change direction at any time. What you will end up with is whatever you put into it. For instance, if you get everything mechanically correct, and decide at the last minute to throw on a set of Cragar S/Ss with BFGs, you haven't "ruined" anything. In order to compete in the concourse class, you'll need to continue in the concourse direction by removing the Cragars & BFGs and fitting the proper wheels once again. Things certainly get more complicated when you start talking about changing things like paint colors, upholstery, etc.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade anybody from going down the concourse road. I just know it's not for me because I want to actually enjoy the car after I put that much work into it. With concourse, the ways your can enjoy your car and still maintain its concourse-level/value, are usually different than what most people would describe as 'enjoyment.'

 

We all have our opinions, to each their own...

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Guest Pastel Blue

Pastel Blue Thank You for taking the time to write what you have.

I don't intend driving the car. It will be driven to shows when it finally gets finished at some point in the future. When i made my decision to go concourse i felt it was the only option for my first American Classic. I understand that i will be pouring money into this project and maybe never recoup what i have invested. On the upside of that classic cars will only ever gain in value so at some point in the future it will be worth what i have invested. If i don't do it concourse i will always look at the car and regret what i have or have not done. Its in my nature and character to be a perfectionist. Anything less it's just a waste of time and effort. People like yourself and B Dunkha will be invaluable in the future as not only a reference point and information & more importantly where to source the exact part i am going to need.

 

I understand your passion... it takes a unique kind of person to go all the way with these car's or any car for that matter. Everyone will finish them to their own liking and that is what is important, not what anyone else has to say. I tried to do that with my post and I figured your mind was already made up, which is the first step in the journey... Keep up the good work. Cheers

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Again, I have nothing but respect for the concourse guys - it takes a lot more discipline than I could ever muster up to stay that course.

 

Sorry if I offended in any way (seriously). I wasn't trying to come off as being negative... just offering what I believe to be a little bit of perspective.

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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Again, I have nothing but respect for the concourse guys - it takes a lot more discipline than I could ever muster up to stay that course.

 

Sorry if I offended in any way (seriously). I wasn't trying to come off as being negative... just offering what I believe to be a little bit of perspective.

 

No offence taken :)

I see my car as a hobby. Whether people have a passion for cars, fishing, shooting, stamp collecting, antiques or thousands of other hobbies every enthusiast throws endless money at their hobby because its something we feel passionate about and love what we do. When something gives us great joy and happiness we will spend copious amounts of money without any regard as to whether we get it back.

I take my hat off to those of you that have a vision and create a 21st century Mustang with a 71-73 and fettle pieces onto the car that never came when the car was manufactured

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Engine was removed today. I am so glad i decided to take it out. As you can see from the picture the driver side engine mount bracket was broken. Left much longer and the stress might done the same to passenger side mounting bracket and a whole lot of mess

20161021_155202.thumb.jpg.1fc1c1d5722e5d3e6a1592ddcf63c960.jpg

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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On the plus side the 71-72 mounts are readily available unlike the 1 year only 73 mounts. Would have been a dangerous situation.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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Nice! That's the easiest and best way to get the engine compartment taken care of. If you're cleaning or replacing your brake lines, fuel lines, etc., make sure to do it all before dropping the engine back in - it'll go a LOT smoother without that big chunk in the way of everything. ::thumb::

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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Nice! That's the easiest and best way to get the engine compartment taken care of. If you're cleaning or replacing your brake lines, fuel lines, etc., make sure to do it all before dropping the engine back in - it'll go a LOT smoother without that big chunk in the way of everything. ::thumb::

 

HaHa That job didn't even cross my mind. Now i got make the decision to do or not to do. As i am going concourse it will need to be right. I will see if i can get em clean before i make a final decision.:chin:

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The engine is now stripped out. The previous owner/s had the crankshaft ground 10 thousand and rods ground 40 thousand. All bores are smooth with no scoring. I have ordered all new bearings including camshaft bearings. Also ordered a full engine gasket/seal set. New timing chain, gears and gaskets have arrived. Should be back in one piece by the end of the month with the engine and engine bay painted.

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Wow. That's fast. Congrats. Cant wait to see pics of the cleaned up and painted engine bay and freshly painted engine!

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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:D All my parts have finally arrived from the U.S. I was very impressed with the belts and hoses i ordered from Marti Autoworks. Now the engine will go back together over the next 10 days.

:D The sprayer has nearly finished taking the engine bay back to bare metal. He has gone back as far as the crossmember where the gearbox mounting sits.

Apologies for no pics. I will post the picture process when the engine bay is finished

 

The one thing which i have discovered which has confounded me; The primer on the body is a red oxide but there is no primer inside the engine bay :huh: Then after removing the 1" remnant of the heater hose at the firewall i found the hose wrapped in thick steel. So it seems Ford cut corners on paint( i also found the paint on inside of doors was very very thin) and go overkill on heater hoses :huh:

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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The engine compartment was shot in semi-gloss black from the top and down under the firewall into the torque box area as far as the painter felt like stretching. Usually not very far doing a couple hundred cars a day. I would recommend you paint the underside slop gray up to about the middle of the firewall and then paint the engine bay black over that. Not sure what steel you are referring to on the heater hose? Was it the clamps from the heater core or are you saying the firewall? The interior doors would have been thin on paint. The focus was the exterior and the doors were lightly shot just to get some color on them. Please remember these were guys building hundreds of cars a day. They didn't care how long the car lasted their focus was the 60 seconds the car was in front of them. Your attention in this restoration will probably go well above how it left the factory.

BKDunha

72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)

67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)

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Sounds like great work! Pics will help! :)

 

Looking forward to seeing them!

 

Ray

1971 Boss 351  

1972 Q code 4 speed convertible 

1971 Mustang Sportsroof  351-2V FMX 

1971 Hardtop (parts car)

1973 Mach 1 (parts car)

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Not sure what steel you are referring to on the heater hose? Was it the clamps from the heater core or are you saying the firewall?

One of those hose remnants in the picture(on the left) has a inner rubber wrapped with metal wire mesh then a outer rubber covering

20160628_142726.thumb.jpg.a560bd2481ae2607b4aac04e435f882c.jpg

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Sounds like great work! Pics will help! :)

 

Looking forward to seeing them!

 

Ray

Mechanic and sprayer are documenting all work with many pics. I will get them all on memory stick when they finished, Will post lots when i receive :)

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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The engine compartment was shot in semi-gloss black from the top and down under the firewall into the torque box area as far as the painter felt like stretching. Usually not very far doing a couple hundred cars a day. I would recommend you paint the underside slop gray up to about the middle of the firewall and then paint the engine bay black over that. Please remember these were guys building hundreds of cars a day. They didn't care how long the car lasted their focus was the 60 seconds the car was in front of them. Your attention in this restoration will probably go well above how it left the factory.

 

I am at war with myself mentally. As you said the workers only had 60 seconds so quality control was non existent. I really want to stay true to original paint BUT then i want a 21st century paint finish with no orange peel on the body. I am more than happy to stay true to the day it rolled off the line with everything but the paint finish.

After attending a classic car show on Sunday and seeing all the engine bays with a modern Satin Black/semi gloss black finished to a high standard i am leaning toward this finish. Especially when the bodies have no orange peel and the shine from the bodies from a 21st century re-spray look fantastic

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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Not sure what steel you are referring to on the heater hose? Was it the clamps from the heater core or are you saying the firewall?

One of those hose remnants in the picture(on the left) has a inner rubber wrapped with metal wire mesh then a outer rubber covering

 

The hose clamps are aftermarket, more likely the hoses have been replaced. Maybe the po used hydraulic hose stock.

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Steve, I agree you should do the restoration as you see fit. I truly feel that is the great thing about our site is that we can respect each individuals path on refreshing their car in the manner they choose. For folks talking about going the concourse route or as close to original as they want I try to chime in from time to time and offer up some of the things I have learned talking to many people and doing a lot of research. If you like the gloss/semi gloss engine bays, by all means do it. If you don't like orange peel, color sand and buff it to a mirror. Honestly, my car does not have much orange peel and I may get dinged for that from time to time by MCA. I am OK with that. I like it to look they way I want it to and I respect that of everyone else as well. Enjoy your car and I look forward to you keeping us all posted on how you progress along. Let us know when you have questions, and I am sure you will get all kinds of feedback. Go with the feedback that helps move you along and everyone has their own background and opinions to draw from and hopefully respect that as feedback and nothing else. Looks like you have a lot of parts to get installed now. Better get in the garage.

BKDunha

72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)

67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)

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  • 1 month later...

As i get deeper into the engine i am finding more problems. The engine was fitted with new valve guides to the exhaust side at some point in its history. The guides are worn and need replacing to the exhaust side.

The baffling thing though is the differant exhaust valves and springs. Some of the valves have a flat surface and some of them are concaved. Then when the springs get a closer inspection they are differant lengths with extra shims to make the springs work at a more equal rate. Obviously the last mechanic had a differant idea of what taking care of their car compared to others is.

I tried to buy new valve guides, valves and springs but my local supplier has not got what i need in stock. As its Christmas they will not be receiving their next order until 3rd week of January. Was hoping to have the engine rebuilt, re-installed, and the engine bay done by Christmas but it looks like this phase of restoration will not be finished until mid February.

 

The York compressor has been inspected by a local specialist and its not repairable. They have ordered one from the States which should be here early January. The clutch is salvageable and it will be cleaned to a new standard. The 2 brackets will be stripped to bare metal and re-sprayed. As for everything else for the A/C under the bonnet it will all need replacing as it is missing!!

 

Next year should see the the engine bay finished, the undercarriage stripped to bare metal and re-sprayed, the body stripped to bare metal and re-sprayed and new parts fitted where needed. The gas tank has a serious dent so will need replacing.

Steve

1971 Grande

 

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