2V Open Chamber Head Shave

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KT-69

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My Car
All 65 to 73
I have the 73 2V engine with open chamber heads. i think the compression is way low like 8 or 9:1. Like to get it up to around 9 to 9.5:1 range. Considering a .030" head shave. Anyone else shaved 2V heads? If so how much is needed and at what point do issue with manifold match, valve piston clearance and detonation emerge? Any one done .030" if so is rocker arm shim or longer push rod required?

 
Hi

I shaved my heads on the intake side 1.3 mm on the pistons side 0.95 mm that should give you 67-68 cc. Used with flat pistons gives you around 9.5.1

No decking of the block.

Regards Rob

 
My 351C is bored .040 over. No changes for that bore to the rockers (stock) or the push rods.

I have the 73 2V engine with open chamber heads. i think the compression is way low like 8 or 9:1. Like to get it up to around 9 to 9.5:1 range. Considering a .030" head shave. Anyone else shaved 2V heads? If so how much is needed and at what point do issue with manifold match, valve piston clearance and detonation emerge? Any one done .030" if so is rocker arm shim or longer push rod required?
 
Hi

I shaved my heads on the intake side 1.3 mm on the pistons side 0.95 mm that should give you 67-68 cc. Used with flat pistons gives you around 9.5.1

No decking of the block.

Regards Rob
.051" on the manifold (side) and .037" on piston (bottom). As I was wondering about the shave on the manifold....between bottom and side to maintain correct manifold fit. That is great information as I had not laid it out or done the math to check.

Did you modify rockers for adjustable or stay with non-adjust pedestal mount rocker arms? I plan to stay with pedestal mounts using high grade ARP 5/16 bolts then either shim the rocker or adjust the rod length as needed to compensate for the .030"-.037" shave job. Some have told me the head shave will not effect hydraulic lifter adjustment unless a large amount is shaved off.

I plan to match the manifold ports to the head ports as I am running a 4V/4V Edelbrock Performer manifold with the 2V heads. My cam grinder told me the 4V/2V Edelbrock manifold ports would be to small to take advantage of my extra cam lift above 4K rpm. The 4V/4V is a close match to the 2V heads ports only a little grinding will be required to achieve a match. I am looking at pulling up to 5.6K to 6.0K rpm with this cam, head, manifold and Holley 4bl carb combo.

 
113mm/.051" on the manifold (side) and 95mm/.037" on piston (bottom). As I was wondering about the shave on the manifold....between bottom and side to maintain correct manifold fit. That is great information as I had not laid it out or done the math to check.

Did you modify rockers for adjustable or stay with non-adjust pedestal mount rocker arms? I plan to stay with pedestal mounts using high grade ARP 5/16 bolts then either shim the rocker or adjust the rod length as needed to compensate for the .030"-.037" shave job. Some have told me the head shave will not effect hydraulic lifter adjustment unless a large amount is shaved off.

I plan to match the manifold ports to the head ports as I am running a 4V/4V Edelbrock Performer manifold with the 2V heads. My cam grinder told me the 4V/2V Edelbrock manifold ports would be to small to take advantage of my extra cam lift above 4K rpm. The 4V/4V is a close match to the 2V heads ports only a little grinding will be required to achieve a match. I am looking at pulling up to 5.6K to 6.0K rpm with this cam, head, manifold and Holley 4bl carb combo.

 
Did you modify rockers for adjustable or stay with non-adjust pedestal mount rocker arms? b combo.
Hi I put in Crane guideplates and studs so that I could mount Howard Roller Rockers, new geometri and new pushrodlenght.

geometri.jpg

Regards Rob

 
Just shaving the heads is only one part of the equation for increasing power. Just increasing the compression will likely gain you very little, if you stay with the stock camshaft. The stock camshaft was designed and timed for emissions and low compression.

Shaving the heads lowers the intake manifold mating surfaces and requires milling the head to intake surface or the intake manifold flanges. It also reduces the distance between the bottom (ends) of the intake manifold and the top of the block at each end of the lifter valley. The ends of the block or the bottom of the intake may also need milled.

This article should help some:

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Milling_cylinder_heads

You also need to take into consideration the condition of the rest of the engine, pistons, rings, crankshaft and bearings, as well as your valves (one piece or stock two piece) and the valve guides. Raising compression will also increase blow-by if your rings don't seat well.

Getting the heads off is a big part of rebuilding the engine.

Having the heads at a machinist is also the ideal time to have the pedestals machined for adjustable lifters.

 
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I was running some 73 CJ heads on my 351C - big ports, small valves originally. They had been cut around 60 thou I think as the chambers were down to 63cc.

I had the intake side of the heads cut as I expected to change manifolds in the future. This worked out ok. There was no issue with manifold to block contact, used instant gasket not the rubber seals anyway.

I had a mild perf cam in it with BBC rockers so I had to get custom pushrods. It ran ok but the previous rebuilder had used the 74 forged flat tops which have a small dish. Even with the small chambers this gave about 9.5:1 CR and would not take much timing on 95 RON unleaded premium.

 
Why not just scrap the crappy 73 2V heads and pick up a good set of 70-71 4V cc heads, or if available get Aussie heads. ( I'd love a set of those on my engine!!). D0AE-N heads are 69 -70 11:1, D0AE-GA are 70-71 and are 10.7:1, supposedly if you believe Ford compression numbers.

It would save a boat load of work and money in the end. Even just adding studs is very costly according to my engine shop, but then that's a Canadian shop!

Just a suggestion.

 
Why not just scrap the crappy 73 2V heads and pick up a good set of 70-71 4V cc heads, or if available get Aussie heads. ( I'd love a set of those on my engine!!). D0AE-N heads are 69 -70 11:1, D0AE-GA are 70-71 and are 10.7:1, supposedly if you believe Ford compression numbers.

It would save a boat load of work and money in the end. Even just adding studs is very costly according to my engine shop, but then that's a Canadian shop!

Just a suggestion.
+1 I just got a set of Aussie 2V heads complete done ready to go for under $1,500. Got them from Power heads. I also opted for the cam kit to go with them so they installed the correct valve springs for me as well.

Head1.jpg

head 2a.jpg

head1a.jpg

 
Why not just scrap the crappy 73 2V heads and pick up a good set of 70-71 4V cc heads, or if available get Aussie heads. ( I'd love a set of those on my engine!!). D0AE-N heads are 69 -70 11:1, D0AE-GA are 70-71 and are 10.7:1, supposedly if you believe Ford compression numbers.

It would save a boat load of work and money in the end. Even just adding studs is very costly according to my engine shop, but then that's a Canadian shop!

Just a suggestion.
+1 I just got a set of Aussie 2V heads complete done ready to go for under $1,500. Got them from Power heads. I also opted for the cam kit to go with them so they installed the correct valve springs for me as well.
Sweet!! Maybe for my next engine build if it ever happens. Good to know they are available at not too bad price. I would ask 750 for the N heads I have with studs already put in and they still need valves and guides done. Machining for studs alone would be over 500 bucks here.

 
Mine's bored .060" over (by necessity), and I tossed in some Keith Black 9.5:1 Hypereutectic flat tops. That, along with all the other performance goodies I threw in the mix (check my "Garage" for more information), should be producing 400-ish at the crank, according to CompCams and their CamQuest utility.

No need to ditch the 2V heads - done right, they're good for more low-end torque than the 4V heads any day. 4V heads are more top-end oriented, which depending on what you want to actually do with the car, might be what you're after.

If you're just looking to get a little more power for a car that's normally just a cruiser, I'd say stick with your 2V heads, save some bucks, and use the 4V head money somewhere else.

 
Mine's bored .060" over (by necessity), and I tossed in some Keith Black 9.5:1 Hypereutectic flat tops. That, along with all the other performance goodies I threw in the mix (check my "Garage" for more information), should be producing 400-ish at the crank, according to CompCams and their CamQuest utility.

No need to ditch the 2V heads - done right, they're good for more low-end torque than the 4V heads any day. 4V heads are more top-end oriented, which depending on what you want to actually do with the car, might be what you're after.

If you're just looking to get a little more power for a car that's normally just a cruiser, I'd say stick with your 2V heads, save some bucks, and use the 4V head money somewhere else.
You're quite right on 2V heads being better at low end. 4V heads are really not much good till it hits 3500 rpm. Mine takes off like a rocket at that point.

He is not talking about boring the block, but shaving the heads down to get higher compression, but I'm sure you realized that.

My first rebuild had KB 177 Hyper flat tops and as they are .020" taller than stock, it was at zero deck after block truing. That alone put the comp ratio close to 11:1 on GA 4 V heads. The second time around I chose KB148 dish tops for around 10:1. He might be able to get pistons with some dome on them to get the comp ratio up. Not done any research on that, so don't hassle me too much!! :huh:

 
My point mentioning [not very well made] that my engine had been bored was that you can order pistons for your specific bore that should get the compression ratio you're after, without having to shave the heads and then do more math. For instance, I ordered my pistons knowing that with a normal head and deck height measurements, even being over-bored, would land me 9.5:1 compression - which is what I was after as well. KB already did the math - all he'd need to do is order the pistons to suit his needs, rather than all the machine work.

Shaving the heads is inviting other issues - for instance, valve/piston interference. They might not clear if a cam with greater lift, or higher ratio rocker arms are used (I went with both, and have no issues).

No arguments here on anything... just sharing what I did for mine. Mine's not going to see any track time or street racing, it's more just a cruiser and might be called on now and then for a burn-out once in a while. I have nothing to prove and could care less if someone's fart-cannon equipped Civic or EVO can out-run me - I already know my car is cool. :cool:

The biggest decision is, "what is the car expected to do?" Once that's established, then decide what direction to go.

 
My point mentioning [not very well made] that my engine had been bored was that you can order pistons for your specific bore that should get the compression ratio you're after, without having to shave the heads and then do more math. For instance, I ordered my pistons knowing that with a normal head and deck height measurements, even being over-bored, would land me 9.5:1 compression - which is what I was after as well. KB already did the math - all he'd need to do is order the pistons to suit his needs, rather than all the machine work.

Shaving the heads is inviting other issues - for instance, valve/piston interference. They might not clear if a cam with greater lift, or higher ratio rocker arms are used (I went with both, and have no issues).

No arguments here on anything... just sharing what I did for mine. Mine's not going to see any track time or street racing, it's more just a cruiser and might be called on now and then for a burn-out once in a while. I have nothing to prove and could care less if someone's fart-cannon equipped Civic or EVO can out-run me - I already know my car is cool. :cool:

The biggest decision is, "what is the car expected to do?" Once that's established, then decide what direction to go.
Yes I do realize what you were getting at and my point too. That is why I suggested changing the heads if necessary, as shaving the height is asking for all sort of problems that anyone with basic math knowledge will understand. Besides any more than 10:1 with the gas we have these days should be more than enough for any street engine. You're like me, I could care less about someone outrunning me on the street. I know that I too have a cool car and will get speeding tickets just as easy as the guy with 600 hp and all the engine add-on do-dads.

I agree with you completely, our friend perhaps should figure out really what he wants to do with his ride, then build the motor to achieve that goal. Personally, it beats me why so many feel a need to spend big bucks to build an engine that is far beyond street needs. If you're into drag racing, then yes it's a necessity, but other than that, why? Unless they "compensating" for something!!

 
Those OZ heads look great my issue is cost my head budget is half the cost of the OZ heads. My budget is limited when car is complete investment can not exceed average blue book value.

 
Those OZ heads look great my issue is cost my head budget is half the cost of the OZ heads. My budget is limited when car is complete investment can not exceed average blue book value.
Just my personal perspective, but if you are only able to invest minimally, would it not be better just freshen up what you have. A basic rebuild may be in order. But, as soon as you get into machine work, you're looking at anywhere from 80 to 100 bucks an hour labor. ( may be cheaper at less competent shops!) Check out the availability of higher compression pistons or heads already done as that may be cheaper than machine work.

As for keeping your investment to blue book values, (I have no idea what a blue book value for a 70's Mustang is, didn't know there was such a thing!), typically, unless you have something extremely rare (Boss 429 etc.) one will never retrieve the investment. If you have dumped 40K into your ride, you'll likely only get about 20K back. At least, that seems to be the way it is around my neck of the woods. People expect to buy a completely restored car as cheaply as they can. That's the way it is I'm afraid.

Please keep us up on what you end up deciding.

 
Basically when I looked into it. TO get my heads redone with new valves hardened seats, three angle valve job etc.... It was going to be almost $1,200 at a competent shop. There was one shop in town that gave me price of about $700 but I had heard bad things and wouldn't you know it they went out of business last month. Hence why I thought it worth the extra $300 to pony up for the Aussie heads. Good machine work, especially on heads is not cheap.

 
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