Brake Line Replacement

Hello everyone.

I was wondering if anyone has replaced their brake lines using one of the preformed kits I've seen in all the parts books. I'm loosing fluid somewhere and the car isn't even running right now. I've been thinking about replacing all the lines and the master cylinder but wasn't sure how big of a job this was. Is there a good way to test the current lines?

Thanks.

Taylor

The new brake line kits are nice. You can pay a little more and get stainless. They are already pre bent and fit nice. The master cylinder is a little different though depending on what year your car is. I had a lot of trouble finding the right one for mine.

I will tell you to avoid stainless brake lines they are a huge 'Pain in the butt' to deal with, the added expense is not worth it in my opinion.

I installed stainless lines on my car, if i had to do it again i would not.

somethings i will recommend stainless for: the main fuel line and the fuel vent line.

that said.

the kits are very good. if you have your original lines do not throw them away when you remove them have both lines side by side and inspect for defects and make sure all the fittings match what you need. its horrible to spend hours installing a line only to find out you have put the wrong line in with incorrect fittings. Also having the original lines in tact will show you how you will need to unpack the new lines and match the shape of the old ones.

the lines come folded(bent) to fit into the box for shipping. there will be a spring on the break line, move the spring into the area you want to unfold and then unbend the line slowly, the spring will prevent the line from kinking on you. repeat until you match the shape of the original line.

you will want to make sure your clips are in good shape, you will find this out when you take the original lines out, AMK sells a very nice replacement kit with hardware so you can easily replace missing or rusted out hardware.

once you get into removal you will see how stuck your original fitting are don't be surprised if everything is frozen solid and won't budge.

you may have to cut all the original brake lines at the master or prop valve or rear axle distribution block. then physically remove those parts get them on the bench with a vice and force the fittings off. careful with use of a blow torch since you can ruin the prop valve(rubber and plastic internals).

it will take you a few hours or a few weeks to do the job depending on how rusted and stuck everything is together and how much damage you find.

brake lines rot from the inside out due to moisture. if any of the lines snap when you take them off the car, then take that as a sign you need a total brake line overhaul.

the hardest lines to install will be the firewall, and the intermediate line that runs from the prop valve to the rear axle.

if your engine is out of the car the job will be very easy to accomplish.


as far as testing the lines. if they are leaking replace them all.

if you open the master cylinder and the fluid is brown, that means the entire system is full of rust.


if your fluid looks like this



replace every single brake hose and line on the car, and flush out all the calipers and wheel cylinders and master cylinder with tons and tons of fresh fluid after replacement.

Thanks so much for the detailed response. I really appreciate you taking so much time answering my question.

When I opened my master cylinder after taking it for its last spin down the block before I took the wheels off I found no brake fluid. None, zero, nada... So I am assuming I got a leak....

Sounds like I've got some work ahead of me. I was hoping to get it back on the road before the end of the summer to get it out of the garage and my wife off my back but doesnt sound like that will be happening...

One last question or two on the brakes. What do you guys think about the Advanced, Auto Zone and Oreily brake parts and hoses? We don't have a NAPA close to use so I have settle for these guys or order everything.

Thanks again.

Taylor

Hello there Tylor! How are you??... Well... As always, Danny gave you a step by step procedure that is ALWAYS VERY VERY HELPFUL for guys like us that are not so used to deal with this mechanic stuff...

I had my own problems with brakes too, in fact, till today my car is braking only in the front discs due to a broken prop valve in my atempt to "restore" the brakes in my car when i was at that point of the restoring job...

I´m from too far away to go and get matching brake parts so i always need to be creative to keep the car running as he supposed to....

I think replacing the hole brake system is good only if you are up to DO IT RIGHT... Replace the hole thing as Dammy said and take the time you need to do the step by step secure... I must say that if you are in a hurry or you are not vey patient, you are probably brake something as i did and then, regret it for a long time...

I don´t really know if brake lines can be cleaned from the inside.. i dont even know if the get blocked due to the years of use... But if your car is or was braking good, you can also do a little test of leaks before enter in the replacing everything process...

Maybe you are having problems in a cylinder in one wheel or in the master cylinder and you dont need to replace everything... Maybe something is a little loose... dont know, but if the car is leaking, 50% of the chances are simple to solve...

If i were you i start by looking closely to see what is the real problem first... I´m not very fan of replacing original stuff so, maybe i´m not the guy to advise you in this matter.. jeje but, what if you clean everything real nice, lift your car... add some brake fluid and look for the leak?... maybe it is as easy as changing a wheel cylinder and you can solve it in an afternoon with 20 bucks...

I also red over here, i believe it was an oldmountainfarm thread, how hard is to get the correct master cylinder to fit with the correct set of lines... If you are going to do the step by step Danny told you, try to Pm oldmountainfarm to get his recent experience with this...

Well.. hope it helps my friend!!

--------------

One last question or two on the brakes. What do you guys think about the Advanced, Auto Zone and Oreily brake parts and hoses? We don't have a NAPA close to use so I have settle for these guys or order everything.

--------------

My experience was nobody stocked the correct parts for 71-73 i would drive to 5 or 6 different stores in one day and everyone would tell me, Sorry were don't stock that part in house then they would tell me "we can order it" and i would respond with "so can i"

if you find this situation in your neck of the woods i would recommend ordering from don at Ohio mustang, or mustangs unlimited, rock auto, etc.

Its not like it used to be years ago stuck with one local supplier and at their mercy, today you can easy get the parts you need online.

I found the specific parts i needed were not to be found in a retail store where the customer base is 1990 honda Civics.


since your system is leaking, try to find the source first, if the leak is a mystery and you can't find it, pull off the rear tires and the drum brake and inspect the wheel cylinders, a leak in there hids well because the fluid gets burned off as you apply the drum brake.


brake pads and drum shoes they had, the correct front calipers and rear wheel cylinders they didn't. nobody stocked the correct rubber hose lines for the brakes, the brake lines themselves you had to order from elsewhere. Prop valves were not made at the time, now they have aftermarket replacements and rebuild kits but they must be ordered from online sources. the Master itself the stores carried various models that would replace your original but they did not match exactly requiring making adapters or your own lines. some masters required changing the pushrod length for the pedal connection.

Thanks again for all the great information.

I guess I should try and find out where all this fluid is going. What is so crazy to me is that I filled the master cylinder up, and now it is all gone and the car hasnt moved and I dont see a puddle of brake fluid. Now I have the master cylinder off the car and looks like something has been leaking down the back of the power booster. It is all "crudded up" with stuff. Can a master cylinder leak out the back?

As you all can tell I am brake stupid...

Taylor

Yes the master cylinder can leak out the back. I never did find the right master cylinder. I ended up changing the flare nuts on the lines at the master cylinder to fit what I think to be the correct master cylinder for the car. I ended up getting three different master cylinders that are supposed to be for the car and none of them were like the one I took off. I found a lot of valuable help on this forum. 72HCode and Don from OMS are just great help. I also learned a thing or two about who will help you after the sale is made, even if you've been a customer for quite a while. I didn't have a big problem changing my brake lines out. Everything 72HCode said is exactly correct. I didn't pay the extra money for stainless and it sounds like I made a good decision. I don't think you have to be an expert mechanic to do it. It didn't take me but two weekends. Good luck.

Thanks again for all the great information.

I guess I should try and find out where all this fluid is going. What is so crazy to me is that I filled the master cylinder up, and now it is all gone and the car hasnt moved and I dont see a puddle of brake fluid. Now I have the master cylinder off the car and looks like something has been leaking down the back of the power booster. It is all "crudded up" with stuff. Can a master cylinder leak out the back?

Click to expand...

+1 yes it can, it can also leak inside the booster, and the engine vacuum will suck the brake fluid into the engine combustion chamber and burn it and send it out the tail pipes.

you can pull the vacuum line to the booster and stick your pinky inside and see if its wet. if its wet, you can bet there is brake fluid inside the booster that should be drained out . if you pull off the master 2 nuts attached to the booster, and slide it forward and fluid starts coming out you know where the fluid is going either way the master should just be replaced with a new one .

now if you see crud going down the booster take a flashlight and look at where the frame rail is spot welded to the firewall, the fluid can travel down there into the frame rail sit inside and slowly drip out of different spots further back on the car. if you see wet undercoating on the bottom of the frame rail back to the seat pan, it could be brake fluid.(mine was leaking like this)

me i never did brakes before i had this ford, my first touching of a brakes was 5 years ago, and i was very nervous about messing with it.

its true some parts are kind of mysterious, like the proportioning valve or the drum brakes.

for the most part the brake system is just hydraulic lines the hard and soft lines are the easiest to understand, maybe not to replace. the fitting drive you nuts when they are all stuck, everything starts snapping and DOT 3 brake fluid is truly NASTY stuff. it will take paint off so fast it makes your head spin.

try to keep yourself clean try to clean up the fluid if it hits any painted surface as fast as possible.

the first thing is diagnoses, find where the fluid might be going first, we are with you and here to support you, believe me I've cried on many shoulders.

Thanks again for all the great information.

I guess I should try and find out where all this fluid is going. What is so crazy to me is that I filled the master cylinder up, and now it is all gone and the car hasnt moved and I dont see a puddle of brake fluid. Now I have the master cylinder off the car and looks like something has been leaking down the back of the power booster. It is all "crudded up" with stuff. Can a master cylinder leak out the back?

Click to expand...

+1 yes it can, it can also leak inside the booster, and the engine vacuum will suck the brake fluid into the engine combustion chamber and burn it and send it out the tail pipes.

you can pull the vacuum line to the booster and stick your pinky inside and see if its wet. if its wet, you can bet there is brake fluid inside the booster that should be drained out . if you pull off the master 2 nuts attached to the booster, and slide it forward and fluid starts coming out you know where the fluid is going either way the master should just be replaced with a new one .

now if you see crud going down the booster take a flashlight and look at where the frame rail is spot welded to the firewall, the fluid can travel down there into the frame rail sit inside and slowly drip out of different spots further back on the car. if you see wet undercoating on the bottom of the frame rail back to the seat pan, it could be brake fluid.(mine was leaking like this)

me i never did brakes before i had this ford, my first touching of a brakes was 5 years ago, and i was very nervous about messing with it.

its true some parts are kind of mysterious, like the proportioning valve or the drum brakes.

for the most part the brake system is just hydraulic lines the hard and soft lines are the easiest to understand, maybe not to replace. the fitting drive you nuts when they are all stuck, everything starts snapping and DOT 3 brake fluid is truly NASTY stuff. it will take paint off so fast it makes your head spin.

try to keep yourself clean try to clean up the fluid if it hits any painted surface as fast as possible.

the first thing is diagnoses, find where the fluid might be going first, we are with you and here to support you, believe me I've cried on many shoulders.

Click to expand...

X 2 here... i had a similar problem in a 66 hardtop with no power booster... I realice the problem just when I pulled out the carpet... it was leaking to the inside of the car...

Can you document your way through this in pictures?? maybe seeing the stuff can help us help you...

I will try to take some pictures of it tonight. I've already pulled the master off but you can see where is has been leaking on the power booster.

Thanks

Taylor

Hello everyone. Earlier it was suggested I post a picture to show what I think is brake fluid leaking on my power booster. So here it is. Tell me what you think. I scrapped some of the rust and stuff off when I took the master cylinder off.

Thanks again for all the help and support.

Well you can see some wetness at the bottom of the booster, lot of rust, especially around the pushrods seal.

Take a picture of the prop valve, and the frame-rail below it, put your hand under the car touch the frame rail right under the steering box see if the undercoat is soft and wet.

If it is do not touch the body paint with your fingers have a rag ready to wipe your hands dry.

Inspect the soft rubber lines in the front wheel wells just turn the steering to full lock left or right and get a good look at the lines, they should be dry on the outside of the rubber any wetness anywhere means they are done. Inspect the rear rubber hose the goes from the drivers rear frame rail over to the top of the rear axle, again check for wetness.

Inspect the lines for cracking just like tires the rubber falls apart bend the line slightly and if it looks like the bottom of a dried up lake they are unsafe as well.

If needed I can show you photos of how deteriorated my car was and how wet everything was.

OK I will check them out.

Based on all the other rubber parts I am sure they have had the lick. I've pulled off all the hoses and belts with the intent on replacing them. The worst so far was the power steering hoses connected to the steering gears. I bought 3 or 4 different tools to try and get them out until finally a sprayed them with deep creep and a cheapo crows foot and a pry bar got them loose. That is another reason for me seeing the power booster all messed up.

If I need to replace the lines, which I am sure I do. Is there a certain brand or maker you might recommend?

Thanks

Taylor

Maybe you need to replace the soft lines, but not the hard ones that are the most complicated ones... Your booster looks very rusted and that can mean brake liquid took off the paint of it too...

Replacing the soft brake lines front and back is something you can do just to be sure so i recomend you do that, being careful when unbolting especially the back ones that should be all rusted up in the nut part...

You can also take the booster off and check it... it is an easy step now... Besides you can find rust behind it in the cowl area...

If i were you i would try to aviod take the prop valve and the hard lines off... you´ll probably mess the nuts like i did and 99% sure your leaks are on the master cylinder, or the soft lines, or the drum cylinders...

Finally... everything you need to replace, ask Don from OMS first cause most things has some specific nut, lenght etc that probably your local supplier do not have or do not know the most accurate replacement for each thing...

I´ve red a lot of brake circuit complications due to wrong parts...

Keep us posted and it is going to come up just fine

I got my stuff line also from these guys. Nice and easy to deal with. I did not go with the stainless because of all the horror stories I heard about them leaking. True or not did not want to take the chance and no more weather than the car will see the regular steel should out last me. The originals are 40 years old so..........

http://www.getdiscbrakes.com/

Shafer's Classic Reproductions

http://www.shafersclassic.com/

I've dealt with and they make a good product they re-sell to other distributors like NPD and mustangs unlimited.

they can also special make lines anyway you want, they make all the lines for our cars, fuel, brake, vent, and even the transmission modulator line, for c6,c4 and fmx.

when i installed the lines most required no modification to fit 100%, i had to do a little manipulation with the long intermediary line that runs under the car but it was minor. much of the issues i had was because i used stainless lines, mild steel would of been a very easy install by comparison.

as far as the rubber lines i bought those from Mustangs unlimited, i do not know the manufacturer they were a perfect fit and i had no issues. you could upgrade to braided brake lines if you wish. stock style was good enough for me.

------

As far as what to replace that is up to you. you may find your hard lines are in good shape or not. I can guarantee if they are are original lines they will need to be replaced. I believe you posted about the line running under the car to the rear axle seemed to be leaking. take that as an indication that all the hard lines are rotted out from the inside. I can guarantee that once you start pulling off the soft rubber lines that at least one hard line is going to snap on you, this would be further proof to replace all the hard lines.

work slow and take photos for yourself so you can remember how everything goes back together.

------

costs: i completely replaced my brake system in 2008 i mean EVERYTHING including the prop valve the cost for that was right around 3000$: Master, booster, prop valve, all lines hard and soft, new front calipers, rotors, pads, hardware, rear lines, drums, hardware, springs, adjusters wheel cylinders, new clips, converted to dot 5 fluid.

now unfortunately this ALWAYS leads to While I'm at it syndrome. You will always discover more problems while you are down there.

when the brakes are in poor condition you can bet the suspension is not far behind. ours cars are pushing 40 years old its to be expected.

-----

Since you are getting into your steering system i would recommend checking out your steering rag joint, and looking at your tie-rods and pitman arm and idler arm as well. everything just starts screaming replacement at you.

-----

Don't be scared, don't worry we are here to help photos and pictures say it all. Look at it this way, you could go to a mechanic who doesn't care and just replaces what he sees as bad, spend 1000s of dollars for his labor and then 4 months from now you slam on the brakes and the part of the system he decided was so-so and didn't replace so he could make more of a profit off you lets go and you loose half the brake system.

its your car and your money when it comes to brakes i see no reason to screw around and second guess things.

The hard lines are priced around $85 and I didn't think they were that hard to put on. I replaced everything on mine except the booster and valve. It probably would have been worth the money to have replaced the valve because that's the only place I ran into trouble getting the old lines off. I came out way cheaper than $3000. Brakes and tires are one item that I like to have working proper on all my cars.

Hello everyone.

Well I looked at my frame and all and it looks like was leaking out the back of the master. So I'm guess I will need a new one or rebuild the existing one. Not sure which would be better option. I know in the past I just bought new but this is a little bit different car and situation.

If the rag joint is the square looking rubber thing in the steering column it looks like it has been drinched in brake fluid. Which I would be willing to bet is not good. Ive really been looking at rebuilding the front end but not sure it needs it. I know it needs bushings but not sure about the other stuff. Something about those springs and stuff intimidates me. All of bushings are rotted is one thing I know for sure.

I was really hoping to have it on the road this summer but the more I do the more I see that needs work.

Thanks again for the help.

Taylor