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Good catch on the dipstick. I missed that.

 

I was looking at the intake gaskets today, the intakes machine marks are on the gaskets, it looks like they were sealed. I also checked the angles on the manifold and heads, they both are 45*. Although the intake has been my main suspicion, I am just not seeing any evidence of it.

I looked in the intake ports and I could see a small puddle of oil around each of the intake valves. The oil in the ports could be from reversion as opposed to where the intake mates.

I don't think it's from the PCV, if it were, there should oil in the intake manifold. When I removed the pcv and blocked the vacuum line, it didn't make any difference.

I've never been at such a loss to find a problem, this is driving me crazy.

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If there was no evidence of oil getting past the gaskets I would vote for the valve stems being submerged in oil due to the pump putting out more oil to the top end than the drain back holes in the heads. The vacuum of the engine running then draws in the oil...

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Which ring set did you use? Those with TG, TL, TSG, or TSL in the part number are not recommended for street use. T or TS are recommended for street use. Just a thought. Chuck

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Replace the high volume oil pump with a standard volume pump or drill the heads and oil pan for fittings and run external oil return lines.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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The rings are TS1.

 

Regarding HV pumps, correct me if I am wrong, but if the clearances are stock, it should raise the pressure. The flow should only increase if the clearances are larger. Higher flow should equal lower pressure. I am not sure if the holes in the push rods are larger than stock, I doubt they are. They are comp cams 3/8" chrome moly, I would have to look up the part numbers.

The oil pressure is 40 psi idling @800 rpm and 60 @ cruise.

I think at this point, I should re-install the intake, run the engine and stick a camera in the valve cover to see how much oil is in there. If it is in fact flooding the valve guide area that could definitely be the problem. The bad thing is if I have to change the oil pump, that's a pain considering the deep pan and headers. I'll probably have to pull the engine. Too bad they didn't use a removable crossmember like the earlier Mustangs have.

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Here is a video of it running.

 

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Sounds good, has good numbers, how much oil are you losing? It might be one of those issues to ignore.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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It sounds great, idle is nice, seems to respond to throttle quite nicely. I am surprised that there wasn't any blue smoke from the tailpipes given that you mentioned the black on the plugs, and the oil you see oil sitting inside the intake ports and around the valves. Just weird, I would think you would be seeing some blue smoke.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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I do see a light amount of blue smoke at idle, hard to notice but it's there. It is fouling plugs, otherwise I probably would ignore it.

 

One other thing I was thinking I could check, is to remove a couple valve springs and check that the guides/seals haven't developed a problem. If they are okay, then I will re install everything, run it, check the valve cover with a camera to see how much oil is in there. If that doesn't seem to be an issue then I'll just run it for a while and see what happens. Maybe it's possible that the oil rings haven't seated and just needs more run time, although I have never had an issue like that before. There is only about 150 miles on it so far. I don't know, I am just reaching at this point. If I have to pull the engine, then I am going to bore it and put a stoker set up in it, probably should have done that in the first place.

 

So far, I feel I have eliminated the PCV system, and the intake gasket. That leaves guides/seals, or rings.

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You had some questions in a prior post regarding the HV pump so I'll give you some fluid dynamics based input. Flow through a fixed orifice is proportional to delta-p (change in pressure) across said orifice (there are most definitely limitations to this statement, but in the flow regime we're talking about, that is the case). So, if you now have more oil pressure than before the rebuild, you also have more flow. The fixed orifice comment relates to your comment about maintaining the same clearances. Same pressure, same clearances = same flow. The bottom line is, if you added a HV pump but didn't restrict flow to the top end, you'll get more oil up top. That doesn't mean your problem is due to excess oil up top, but it puts it on the list as something to verify. Flooding the valve stems with oil will result in an increase in consumption vs the usual splash that takes place.

 

I've also heard of oil consumption through the rocker stud holes...I've never experienced it and not sure what the path for oil is into the cylinder....speculating, I'd say that someone bored the holes for studs too deep....with CJ heads, there would be no reason to mess with this, so I don't see this as a possibility...wanted to mention it anyway just in case.

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Also...when you ran without PCV, how long did you run it (I asked this before but don't recall a response....forgive me if you already answered)? You need to drive it around for at least a half an hour to get a clear signal of whether or not it made a change.....when you said it only has 150 miles on it, it made me think that you may not have given it enough time w/o PCV to make a clear call.

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I initially ran the engine with open breathers, no pcv. It wasn't until I noticed oil on the plugs that I hooked up the pcv. I even hooked up a catch can. Also, I couldn't find oil tracing up the vacuum fitting. The intake manifold only had oil about 1" up in to the runners and the ports on the heads were completely wet.

 

Regarding the rocker studs, they don't protrude into the intake ports like the P51's and SCJ's. They a blind holes.

 

I hope your right and maybe it's too much oil at top. If that's the case, do they make push rods that have smaller orifice's. Just asking because if I have to change the pump, then I have pull the engine, fun fun fun, nothing like doing things twice.

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Yep, I know the rocker stud holes don't protrude into the ports on the iron heads...which is why I speculated that someone would have to have bored the holes too deep for that to be a path for oil. My comment wasn't at all clear. I have not worked with the P51's or the Ford Motorsport SCJ's and wasn't aware that they do...but that explains why I've read about that particular path.

 

When I was a kid, I rebuilt an XR500 motorcycle engine....I put the 2nd piston ring on upside down...it ran fine but smoked really bad. Let's hope that's not the case here....lots of oil on the rings can make compression numbers look good. I don't have any experience with a leakdown setup so I can't comment on how that would be affected by an upside down ring.

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What type of valve spring oil seals did you use? I've had poor luck with the white Teflon type not lasting but a few hundred miles before they started leaking oil past the guides. Installed some positive stop type Viton seals and the oil burning problem went away.

Mike

__________________________________

Black 1985 GT

Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1

Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's

Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

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He's using the blue positive seals, but didn't specify if they are all viton or have the teflon ring that contacts the valve guide.

 

I totally agree...those 1 piece teflon seals are junk...very hard to get them on without distorting them.

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The seals are viton. In fact,the seals I got from Lunati were teflon and the machinist said not to use them because they won't last.

 

As far as the rings go, I don't think I made a stupid mistake like installing them upside down. I was very careful to make sure I installed everything correctly. I would have a hard time believing I could have that big of a brain fart. I guess until I resolve this I can't take anything off the table.

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Lunati makes a restricted orifice pushrod. Its a nice piece.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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// had a hard time trying to tune it, had a lot of fuel smell. Checked the plugs and found oil on the threads.

 

I know you said your leak down and compression tests were good but it is possible for over fueling to be so bad it washes the oil off the cylinder walls and you lose the ring seal.

 

At this point I would agree with your plan. Drive the bag off it and see if it gets better, worse or stays the same. Make sure you keep oil in it.

 

My WAG is for an intake gasket sealing issue. Have you tried putting a light coating of RTV or Hylomar on both sides of the gasket?

 

For the record I run a HV pump and haven't had any drain back issues.

 

Love your car.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

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If they are the blue-green viton seals then they should be fine.

 

When I had my old 351c I also ran some Total Seal rings (gapless 2nd ring) in it and I was forever plagued with some amount of oil fouling of the plugs and puffs out of the tailpipes. I attributed it to the fact that I did not have the block honed with torque plates because the shop that did the machining did not have any for a SBF. The instructions specifically say to have that done but since I rebuilt my engine when I was stationed in England, it was an impossibility. It always bugged me but there was nothing I could do about it. I couldn't prove it was the cause of my oil consumption but it was the only item left that I could not address over time. I did the intake gaskets several times. valve seals, Removed high volume pump and installed a std volume one, different weight oils. Nothing ever cured it.

 

With my new motor, bored with torque plates and running traditional moly rings, I have no oil consumption at all.

Mike

__________________________________

Black 1985 GT

Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1

Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's

Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

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Regarding fuel, the a/f gauge shows 13.8 to 14.0:1, and the gas analyzer confirms it,but the hc content is extremely high, I 'am assuming that's the oil causing that. I don't see any signs of oil contamination.

 

For the intake, I didn't use any sealant other than the end seals. What is Hylomar? I haven't heard of that before.

 

Regarding the rings... some people swear by them, others say they have problems, and some say they are just a gimmick. Some say they reduce oil dilution when the rings wear. The top ring looks like it's a regular moly coated ring, and the second is cast iron, but maybe the steel rail that fits in the second ring is a problem. I don't know, as this is the first time I have used these rings. If these rings are so sensitive that it requires honing with torque plates, that could be a problem. I didn't bore it, so when the heads are torqued, maybe there is too much distortion. Who knows, but I doubt that it could be an issue on the compression stroke because if it's pushing combustion past the rings it should show as blow by and possibly lost power. However, oil could be drawn upward past the rings on the exhaust stroke, I don't know, it's just speculation at this point. I imagine that if I can eliminate everything else as the problem and determine that the rings are at fault, then it will take a very close inspection of the rings and cylinder walls to determine the cause. Hopefully it doesn't come down to that.

 

I'll say one thing for sure, I sure do appreciate everyone's response's and thoughts, and the comments of how the car looks, now all I need to do is get it run as good as it looks and life will be good again.

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Thanks for the info on Hylomar.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi,

It's been a while, been working so much I haven't had time to mess with the car. I spent a few hours the other day, I put shims between the manifold and heads at 4 of outer most bolt holes and installed 4 bolts hand snug. I measured the gap at the bottom and top both sides. I found a slight variance of .005 on the driver side (+.005 larger gap at the top). I think I can rule out the intake.

I pulled a valve spring off, dropped the valve down to the piston and looking at the valve stem thru the intake port, it had a lot of clean oil on it. The lower part of the stem was stained with oil residue. This makes me think it sucking oil thru the guides. The seal looked okay, and I couldn't feel any play in the guide, so maybe the problem is the HV oil pump, too much oil at the top of the engine. I will get it running this weekend, pull a baffle out of one of the valve covers so I can see how much oil is in the head. At this point, I am hoping this is the problem.

I'll post again this weekend.

Staci

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I put the intake back on, used some sealant on the head side (never did that before) and that did the trick. I was able to time it at 15* initial, HC is 2500-2600 at idle, 250 at 2000.

Before,the HC was 4000 + and didn't go down at rpm. Also pulling more vacuum at idle, 10-11, before, it was 8-9 but that was with 22* initial. Pulled a couple plugs after 30 min of run time and they were dry. I did remove a valve cover baffle and saw the oil, it's flowing towards the drain very good and was level with the bottom of the spring seat of the exhaust valve. Oil PSI is 40-42 at idle and 60 and at 2000. 70 when cold. Oil is Valvoline VR1 30W.

 

Now I only have two things to fix to be ready for this spring. 1, voltage regulator keeps dying, I've been thru 3 of them so far, they work for while then quit. I changed the alternator last time I put a regulator and it has already quit working.

2, I need to replace a latch for the convert. top.

 

Small problems in comparison. I was so worried about the engine using oil, my worst fear was the the rings were the problem. I really didn't want to tear it down again after all the time and money I put in to it. I am glad it was just intake. It sure sounds good.

 

Thanks to everyone who chimed in to help.

 

Life is good again:)

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