'71 Mustang clicking issue

After a very long winter my '71 was finally almost ready to be picked up from my mechanics shop. Little back story first. When I bought the car it had an obvious pronounced vibration. When my mechanic took it apart it had a 10 inch clutch and was internally balanced. Now it has a new 10 inch clutch but it is now externally balanced. That seemed to have taken care of some of the vibrations, but now the engine is making a tick-tick-tick-tick sound from what sound like the passenger valve cover. My mechanic says the problem may be that the engine is unbalanced and can seriously damage the engine. Well a little Google search came up with results saying some people say it is the lifters, rockers and/or pushrods or the timing may be wrong or even that a high volume pump may fix it. Anyways my question is this, has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas on how to pin point it? Any ideas to fix it? 

Oh my engine is a 351C 4V with a 4 speed toploader.

The ticking sound might very well be a sticking valve, lifter or loose rocker arm.. There isn't much to the valve train under the valve cover.  I would suggest pulling that side of the engine cover and grab hold of each rocker arm.. (Engine NOT running) and wiggle each one back and forth.. If you come across a sloppy rocker, that is the one giving you the noise.  Pull it off and remove the push rod.. Inspect both for damage such as a crack, scoring on the ball ends, and straightness.. If you roll the pushrod along a flat surface, it should roll smoothly.  Also, inspect the center of the push rod for blockage as it feeds oil to the rocker.

Lubricate any parts you removed with engine oil and reassemble them per specification.. Install the valve cover and start the engine.  If there is still a slight ticking noise, I would suggest adding any one of the oil additives on the market that will free up a sticking lifter.. There are several out there..

In most cases, new ticking noises that show up after storage is due to varnish buildup, or stagnant oil in the engine from sitting..

These steps are the least expensive to perform before you start tearing the engine apart..

Best of luck..

A couple of things.. first it's nice to have a ear probe.. it like what a doctor uses with a pin on the end. u touch it to valve cover or where ever to pin point a noise. you can use a long screw driver and push it to your ear and touch it to valve cover too.

i really don't know if your engine is int or ext balance. i didn't know of my 302 until i asked here and it's a ext one. wanting a new balancer is why i asked for mine. yours might be the same therefore u don't need it balanced unless u are going to race it then the extra machine work is needed.

Depending on what it sounds like I have seen a small exhaust leak at the manifold misdiagnosed as a lifter or valve noise.

If your mechanic is telling you that a ticking sound is because your engine isn't balanced, then you need to find a new mechanic. Sorry, but that is just absurd.

Depending on what it sounds like I have seen a small exhaust leak at the manifold misdiagnosed as a lifter or valve noise.

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The reason I mentioned this is I had the same issue last summer. Sounded like a valve. Got a mechanics stethoscope and sure enough there was a crack in my original iron exhaust manifold. I had already purchased headers so swapped them in and good to go. The stethoscopes are cheap, like $4 at Harbour Freight, but work great at finding the source of a sound quickly.

There are three basic items involved with internal and external balancing and all three must be compatible, crankshaft, harmonic balancer, and flywheel (or flexplate for automatics). It sounds like the previous owner did not understand what internal and external balancing is and installed an internal balanced flywheel, the clutch disk and pressure plate are fully balanced and work with either version. If the PO installed an internally balanced flywheel, and replacing it with an external balance flywheel helped with the vibrations, the harmonic balancer may also be for an internal balanced crankshaft or the rubber insert has deteriorated and the balance ring has slipped and is no longer aligned with the hub/crankshaft. It's also possible for a failing clutch disk to be out of balance and cause vibrations.

I agree with Piper, Bill, and Jason about the probable cause of the noise.

If your mechanic is telling you that a ticking sound is because your engine isn't balanced, then you need to find a new mechanic. Sorry, but that is just absurd.

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My thoughts exactly.   It is time to find a new mechanic.

Normally with a Ticking sound I would suggest exhaust leak but since  your car did sit for a while it could be in the valve train.

The suggestion to get a stethoscope is excellent.   They can be found at autozone, napa, etc.  No need to spend much money on them:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=stethoscope+automotive

 

It can really help narrow down which part of the valve train is making the noise, even with the valve cover on.

My other suggestion is to take a piece of heater sized hose and insert it into the valve cover.   You want to see if you can hear the noise better with your ear on the other side of the hose.  If you can, it’s the valve train, if not, it might be an exhaust leak.   Be careful when you do this.  You don’t want to insert the hose very far.  I normally use my hand as a ‘seal’ and have the hose just a ½ inch or so in.

A couple of things.. first it's nice to have a ear probe.. it like what a doctor uses with a pin on the end. u touch it to valve cover or where ever to pin point a noise. you can use a long screw driver and push it to your ear and touch it to valve cover too.

i really don't know if your engine is int or ext balance. i didn't know of my 302 until i asked here and it's a ext one. wanting a new balancer is why i asked for mine. yours might be the same therefore u don't need it balanced unless u are going to race it then the extra machine work is needed.

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Stick the handle in your ear, the other way around doesn't work so well

First of all thanks to everyone for the wonderful feedback. Makes a newbie like me not feel awkward asking questions. OK back to business. So since the flywheel and clutch were changed and the engine is now externally balanced do I need to look into a different harmonic balancer? Also would it be wise to just get new rockers arms and everything that goes with it? And it is true. The car did not move at all for almost four months. Another thing that I should add is that the engine is not original to the car. Apparently the sellers changed a V6 that was in it and replaced it with a 351 Boss engine to race it. I do not know if that has any bearing to it but I figure the more details I can provide the better everyone can help me figure it out. I really have no funds right now to be balancing or replacing an engine. I will look into a stethoscope as soon as I get off work.

Many of us who live in the northern climates store / park our cars for 4-5 months every year with little or no issue.

You can also use a length of vacuum hose as a stethoscope to narrow down exactly were the noise is coming from. Once you have determined the source, then further investigation can hopefully determine the cause.

First of all thanks to everyone for the wonderful feedback. Makes a newbie like me not feel awkward asking questions. OK back to business. So since the flywheel and clutch were changed and the engine is now externally balanced do I need to look into a different harmonic balancer? Also would it be wise to just get new rockers arms and everything that goes with it? And it is true. The car did not move at all for almost four months. Another thing that I should add is that the engine is not original to the car. Apparently the sellers changed a V6 that was in it and replaced it with a 351 Boss engine to race it. I do not know if that has any bearing to it but I figure the more details I can provide the better everyone can help me figure it out. I really have no funds right now to be balancing or replacing an engine. I will look into a stethoscope as soon as I get off work.

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  I'm just reading this for the first time, so do I have this right.

 It's a 71 Mustang (Mach 1?). Someone had put a V6 in it??, you kidding me!. It now has a 351 BOSS engine in it??? Are you sure it's a Boss engine?. It had a 10 inch clutch on it, it should be an 11 inch on a 351 C.

What do you have? Can you post the casting and date code numbers on the block, heads and intake. Does it have an original Ford aluminum intake with a spread bore carb, 4300 D if I'm not mistaken. (If it's a 72 or 73 CJ, it will also have a spread bore, but steel)

I'm not in a position to identify the ticking noise, but from what little I know, the others have pretty much nailed it. BUT, if you DO have a true Boss engine, it is very valuable, don't F with it, but get it rebuilt properly by an expert Ford builder. If it is an ordinary 351 C 4V, you'll still need to identify it accurately and if it does need a total rebuild, take my advice from my own experience, take it to a Ford guy who knows the quirks of the Cleveland. That mistake cost be a second rebuild in just 3 summers of use.

Hope you get it running the way it should.

Geoff.

Changing the flywheel or clutch does not change it from an internally balanced to an externally balanced engine. The crankshaft determines whether or not it is internal or external, then the flywheel and harmonic balancer must match the crankshaft.

If I were you I would find a good mechanic to diagnose your noise and your vibration. It's possible they come from the same source, such as a camshaft with a bad lobe causing the noise as well as a dead cylinder causing the vibration.

Changing the flywheel or clutch does not change it from an internally balanced to an externally balanced engine. The crankshaft determines whether or not it is internal or external, then the flywheel and harmonic balancer must match the crankshaft.

If I were you I would find a good mechanic to diagnose your noise and your vibration. It's possible they come from the same source, such as a camshaft with a bad lobe causing the noise as well as a dead cylinder causing the vibration.

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+1 on that Don. That much I do  know!!

First of all thanks to everyone for the wonderful feedback. Makes a newbie like me not feel awkward asking questions. OK back to business. So since the flywheel and clutch were changed and the engine is now externally balanced do I need to look into a different harmonic balancer? Also would it be wise to just get new rockers arms and everything that goes with it? And it is true. The car did not move at all for almost four months. Another thing that I should add is that the engine is not original to the car. Apparently the sellers changed a V6 that was in it and replaced it with a 351 Boss engine to race it. I do not know if that has any bearing to it but I figure the more details I can provide the better everyone can help me figure it out. I really have no funds right now to be balancing or replacing an engine. I will look into a stethoscope as soon as I get off work.

Click to expand...

  I'm just reading this for the first time, so do I have this right.

 It's a 71 Mustang (Mach 1?). Someone had put a V6 in it??, you kidding me!. It now has a 351 BOSS engine in it??? Are you sure it's a Boss engine?. It had a 10 inch clutch on it, it should be an 11 inch on a 351 C.

What do you have? Can you post the casting and date code numbers on the block, heads and intake. Does it have an original Ford aluminum intake with a spread bore carb, 4300 D if I'm not mistaken. (If it's a 72 or 73 CJ, it will also have a spread bore, but steel)

I'm not in a position to identify the ticking noise, but from what little I know, the others have pretty much nailed it. BUT, if you DO have a true Boss engine, it is very valuable, don't F with it, but get it rebuilt properly by an expert Ford builder. If it is an ordinary 351 C 4V, you'll still need to identify it accurately and if it does need a total rebuild, take my advice from my own experience, take it to a Ford guy who knows the quirks of the Cleveland. That mistake cost be a second rebuild in just 3 summers of use.

Hope you get it running the way it should.

Geoff.

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I know! This car is an oddball. It gets worse with the fact that they lost the original VIN number on it because they changed the dash. The owners of it said they put a Boss engine in it which is why they painted the Boss stripes to it. But it could very well be just a 351C 4V in it. Everywhere I read I saw that the 11 inch clutch was the standard. So I bought a clutch for it only to find out that it cannot be used. At least that is what my mechanic said because of the different flywheel. I am going to Seattle today but on the way there I will stop by my mechanics shop and look at the car. I could at the very least get the intake casting number. I know it does not have the original carb. It has a Holley in it now.

What are you using for a VIN to get it registered? Here is some information on other VIN locations:

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-vin-number-location-s?highlight=VIN+location

It sounds like your car was originally equipped with an I-6, also called a straight six, that has all of the cylinders in a row. A V-6 has half of the cylinders at an angle to the other three, just as a V-8 has half of the cylinders at an angle to the other half. I believe that the first V-6s that Ford used in the US were in the Mustang IIs in 1974.

First of all thanks to everyone for the wonderful feedback. Makes a newbie like me not feel awkward asking questions. OK back to business. So since the flywheel and clutch were changed and the engine is now externally balanced do I need to look into a different harmonic balancer? Also would it be wise to just get new rockers arms and everything that goes with it? And it is true. The car did not move at all for almost four months. Another thing that I should add is that the engine is not original to the car. Apparently the sellers changed a V6 that was in it and replaced it with a 351 Boss engine to race it. I do not know if that has any bearing to it but I figure the more details I can provide the better everyone can help me figure it out. I really have no funds right now to be balancing or replacing an engine. I will look into a stethoscope as soon as I get off work.

Click to expand...

  I'm just reading this for the first time, so do I have this right.

 It's a 71 Mustang (Mach 1?). Someone had put a V6 in it??, you kidding me!. It now has a 351 BOSS engine in it??? Are you sure it's a Boss engine?. It had a 10 inch clutch on it, it should be an 11 inch on a 351 C.

What do you have? Can you post the casting and date code numbers on the block, heads and intake. Does it have an original Ford aluminum intake with a spread bore carb, 4300 D if I'm not mistaken. (If it's a 72 or 73 CJ, it will also have a spread bore, but steel)

I'm not in a position to identify the ticking noise, but from what little I know, the others have pretty much nailed it. BUT, if you DO have a true Boss engine, it is very valuable, don't F with it, but get it rebuilt properly by an expert Ford builder. If it is an ordinary 351 C 4V, you'll still need to identify it accurately and if it does need a total rebuild, take my advice from my own experience, take it to a Ford guy who knows the quirks of the Cleveland. That mistake cost be a second rebuild in just 3 summers of use.

Hope you get it running the way it should.

Geoff.

Click to expand...

I know! This car is an oddball. It gets worse with the fact that they lost the original VIN number on it because they changed the dash. The owners of it said they put a Boss engine in it which is why they painted the Boss stripes to it. But it could very well be just a 351C 4V in it. Everywhere I read I saw that the 11 inch clutch was the standard. So I bought a clutch for it only to find out that it cannot be used. At least that is what my mechanic said because of the different flywheel. I am going to Seattle today but on the way there I will stop by my mechanics shop and look at the car. I could at the very least get the intake casting number. I know it does not have the original carb. It has a Holley in it now.

Click to expand...

  The more I thought about it, it came to mind that if it IS a boss, it will have mechanical valvetrain. Removing the valve covers will reveal screw in studs, push rod guide plates and adjustable rockers. If it does not have these, then it is just a 351C 4V. If it does have adjustable rockers, that does not mean it IS a boss as ordinary heads can be modified, but the ticking could just be rockers out of adjustment.

 As for the vin, there is a partial VIN under the fenders, stamped into the apron, (see picture of mine) That may help identify the CAR at least and if it matches your title, I assume you have the title?!!

 Let us know what you find out, I'm as curios as hell now!

  I'm just reading this for the first time, so do I have this right.

 It's a 71 Mustang (Mach 1?). Someone had put a V6 in it??, you kidding me!. It now has a 351 BOSS engine in it??? Are you sure it's a Boss engine?. It had a 10 inch clutch on it, it should be an 11 inch on a 351 C.

What do you have? Can you post the casting and date code numbers on the block, heads and intake. Does it have an original Ford aluminum intake with a spread bore carb, 4300 D if I'm not mistaken. (If it's a 72 or 73 CJ, it will also have a spread bore, but steel)

I'm not in a position to identify the ticking noise, but from what little I know, the others have pretty much nailed it. BUT, if you DO have a true Boss engine, it is very valuable, don't F with it, but get it rebuilt properly by an expert Ford builder. If it is an ordinary 351 C 4V, you'll still need to identify it accurately and if it does need a total rebuild, take my advice from my own experience, take it to a Ford guy who knows the quirks of the Cleveland. That mistake cost be a second rebuild in just 3 summers of use.

Hope you get it running the way it should.

Geoff.

Click to expand...

I know! This car is an oddball. It gets worse with the fact that they lost the original VIN number on it because they changed the dash. The owners of it said they put a Boss engine in it which is why they painted the Boss stripes to it. But it could very well be just a 351C 4V in it. Everywhere I read I saw that the 11 inch clutch was the standard. So I bought a clutch for it only to find out that it cannot be used. At least that is what my mechanic said because of the different flywheel. I am going to Seattle today but on the way there I will stop by my mechanics shop and look at the car. I could at the very least get the intake casting number. I know it does not have the original carb. It has a Holley in it now.

Click to expand...

  The more I thought about it, it came to mind that if it IS a boss, it will have mechanical valvetrain. Removing the valve covers will reveal screw in studs, push rod guide plates and adjustable rockers. If it does not have these, then it is just a 351C 4V. If it does have adjustable rockers, that does not mean it IS a boss as ordinary heads can be modified, but the ticking could just be rockers out of adjustment.

 As for the vin, there is a partial VIN under the fenders, stamped into the apron, (see picture of mine) That may help identify the CAR at least and if it matches your title, I assume you have the title?!!

 Let us know what you find out, I'm as curios as hell now!

Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay. I will not be able to find out until Tuesday. As soon as I find the cast numbers and what sort of valvetrain it has I will post it on here. :chin:

Small update. The mechanic says he is not too worried about the ticking sound now. He is more worried about the vibrations. He says it can damage the block. And I still do not know what casting numbers are on there. It is like he is purposefully with holding them. Any ideas on the vibrations?