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New cam for my 408.


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Hey guys. Im looking at pulling my motor out of my car tomorrow and I am going to go through it again and reseal a few things and also put in a new cam and lifters. After all the lifter issues I have been having and also having trouble getting my carb dialed in, I have decided to ditch it all and start again. I did some more research on my original cam and have found that a lot of people were having trouble with getting their carbs dialed in with this Comp cam. My old cam is a Comp cams big mutha thumpr series hydraulic roller. Lift is .580/.564  duration at .050 is 243/257. lobe separation is 107.  From what I have read the valve overlap is too much to get a good signal for the carb. Makes it difficult to dial in and is rough on valvetrain parts. But gives it that crazy rough idle sound.  Well I spoke with comp and explained to them what I had and what I wanted to do with the car and they recommended a magnum series hydraulic roller cam. Lift is .612/.612 duration at .050 is 244/244. and lobe separation is 110. They say this will be more street friendly even though it has more lift. It will also idle better than the thumpr. Be easier to tune and sure actually make more power. So what do you guys think??  I know everyone has their own opinions on cams but just thought I would ask. This car will probably never see the strip. Its a weekend cruiser and ice-cream wagon LOL! 

Heres some other specs on the motor.

408 scat stroker kit

4" stroke 4.030 bore 6"rods

AFD 4vs aluminum heads

ported polished

long tube headers

850 quick fuel carb

msd 6al ignition and billet dizzy

edelbrok torque II intake

Harland sharp 1.73 roller rockers

C4 auto trans with 2800-3000 stall converter.

373 gears 26" tall tire.

 

Let me know what you guys think??

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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I don't remember the specs for the rest of the engine so I can't suggest anything other than get multiple recommendations. In my opinion the larger the company the worse the recommendations are. Trying to use a 107 LSA on street 408C is a real bad idea. Who recommended that cam? If you have OEM 4V heads you will need 8-10 degrees more duration on the exhaust than the intake. The best recommendations come from engine builders that specialize in Ford engines. I can recommend Lykins Motorsports, near Louisville, KY. http://www.lykinsmotorsports.com Brent, the owner will likely answer the phone. Let us know what you decide on.

 

Chuck

 

Edit: Sorry I didn't read you full signature data.

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I too am a believer in people who specialize in camshafts and valvetrain. Off the shelf camshafts rarely optimize a combination of parts, especially ones where a Cleveland engine is concerned. My go-to company is http://www.flowtechinduction.com/ford-2/. I have used them with several of my unique builds and couldn't be more satisfied. The owner is a long time and well respected camshaft designer for many of the top NMRA racers. I started talking with him about different LSAs and Cleveland specifics and he quickly debunked many myths and preconceptions that I had brought to the table with my internet research. He really knows his stuff.

Mike

__________________________________

Black 1985 GT

Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1

Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's

Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

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Hey guys. Im looking at pulling my motor out of my car tomorrow and I am going to go through it again and reseal a few things and also put in a new cam and lifters. After all the lifter issues I have been having and also having trouble getting my carb dialed in, I have decided to ditch it all and start again. I did some more research on my original cam and have found that a lot of people were having trouble with getting their carbs dialed in with this Comp cam. My old cam is a Comp cams big mutha thumpr series hydraulic roller. Lift is .580/.564  duration at .050 is 243/257. lobe separation is 107.  From what I have read the valve overlap is too much to get a good signal for the carb. Makes it difficult to dial in and is rough on valvetrain parts. But gives it that crazy rough idle sound.  Well I spoke with comp and explained to them what I had and what I wanted to do with the car and they recommended a magnum series hydraulic roller cam. Lift is .612/.612 duration at .050 is 244/244. and lobe separation is 110. They say this will be more street friendly even though it has more lift. It will also idle better than the thumpr. Be easier to tune and sure actually make more power. So what do you guys think??  I know everyone has their own opinions on cams but just thought I would ask. This car will probably never see the strip. Its a weekend cruiser and ice-cream wagon LOL! 

Heres some other specs on the motor.

408 scat stroker kit

4" stroke 4.030 bore 6"rods

AFD 4vs aluminum heads

ported polished

long tube headers

850 quick fuel carb

msd 6al ignition and billet dizzy

edelbrok torque II intake

Harland sharp 1.73 roller rockers

C4 auto trans with 2800-3000 stall converter.

373 gears 26" tall tire.

 

Let me know what you guys think??

Kevin,

My Comp Cams hydraulic roller camshaft's lift is .580/.600, duration .230/.236 with lobe separation @ 110.  It ran great for over 5,000 miles, just the 850 carb was too rich.  I did buy the Quick Fuel 750 and will find out soon how that works out.  While you have the engine out you outta think about having the block machined out for the one-piece rear main seal.  It was only $150. and with no oil slinger on our stroker cranks, it made sense to me.  $150 is cheap, pulling an engine to fix a leaking RMS isn't.  Here's some info: http://351c.net/board/index.php?/topic/4091-one-piece-rear-main-seal/ 

 

20170405_150454.jpg

 

 

The FoMoCo 1-1/4" npt threaded freeze plugs were also only $150 and added what I believe to be cheap insurance.  $150 is cheap, pulling an engine to fix a leaking plug isn't.

 

 

20170504_163826.jpg

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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If you are going roller do not use the comp roller lifters. Have read many stories lately of issues with comp roller lifters. Morel is usually the lifter that is recommended.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

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...another option are the Lunati lifters (#72335-16) We had no issues with these lifters.

 

 

774.jpg

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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Thanks for all the replies fellas.

 

Eric, I hope it runs well!! :D

 

Chuck, The 107 lobe was recommended by the idiot that built my heads, Tim Barnett. Then I had all the troubles with everything in the heads. The cam is the last thing left that he recommended. So I am starting over again. I listed my engine specs at the end of my first post. I have a set of aluminum AFD 4vs heads.

 

MeZapU, I will check out flowtech and see what they offer. Thanks.

 

Eric, I was following your thread on your motor. Your definitely doing some nice upgrades. At this point I really don't want to tear the motor completely down. Im just gonna swap the cam and go from there. Im sure I will have the motor out again in the near future! lollerz  Im getting pretty good at it! Can have it out in hour and half max.

 

Tommy,

I originally had the comp hydraulic roller rockers, had 3 collapse in a row and sent them all back to comp..... They are supposed to be refunding me but my machine shop is still fighting with them for the last 6-7 months. The comp lifters are absolute garbage now. I ordered a new set of morels and they just showed up yesterday! They look really nice! We will see how they hold up.

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Eric, word on the street is Morel makes those for Lunati.......... they look nice!

Also make them for Howards, PBM and a few others.

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Thanks for all the replies fellas.

 

Eric, I hope it runs well!! :D

 

Chuck, The 107 lobe was recommended by the idiot that built my heads, Tim Barnett. Then I had all the troubles with everything in the heads. The cam is the last thing left that he recommended. So I am starting over again. I listed my engine specs at the end of my first post. I have a set of aluminum AFD 4vs heads.

 

MeZapU, I will check out flowtech and see what they offer. Thanks.

 

Eric, I was following your thread on your motor. Your definitely doing some nice upgrades. At this point I really don't want to tear the motor completely down. Im just gonna swap the cam and go from there. Im sure I will have the motor out again in the near future! lollerz  Im getting pretty good at it! Can have it out in hour and half max.

 

Tommy,

I originally had the comp hydraulic roller rockers, had 3 collapse in a row and sent them all back to comp..... They are supposed to be refunding me but my machine shop is still fighting with them for the last 6-7 months. The comp lifters are absolute garbage now. I ordered a new set of morels and they just showed up yesterday! They look really nice! We will see how they hold up.

I hope yours works out well for you this time too!  I know we've both been down this road a few times.

 

Wow!... 1 1/2 hours  I could have you drive from western PA to eastern PA, pull my engine and I think you might beat my mechanic!   :shootself:

Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! ::thumb::

 

 

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Thanks for all the replies fellas.

 

Eric, I hope it runs well!! :D

 

Chuck, The 107 lobe was recommended by the idiot that built my heads, Tim Barnett. Then I had all the troubles with everything in the heads. The cam is the last thing left that he recommended. So I am starting over again. I listed my engine specs at the end of my first post. I have a set of aluminum AFD 4vs heads.

 

MeZapU, I will check out flowtech and see what they offer. Thanks.

 

Eric, I was following your thread on your motor. Your definitely doing some nice upgrades. At this point I really don't want to tear the motor completely down. Im just gonna swap the cam and go from there. Im sure I will have the motor out again in the near future! lollerz  Im getting pretty good at it! Can have it out in hour and half max.

 

Tommy,

I originally had the comp hydraulic roller rockers, had 3 collapse in a row and sent them all back to comp..... They are supposed to be refunding me but my machine shop is still fighting with them for the last 6-7 months. The comp lifters are absolute garbage now. I ordered a new set of morels and they just showed up yesterday! They look really nice! We will see how they hold up.

I hope yours works out well for you this time too!  I know we've both been down this road a few times.

 

Wow!... 1 1/2 hours  I could have you drive from western PA to eastern PA, pull my engine and I think you might beat my mechanic!   :shootself:

Yeah I hope all goes well.  Pulling the motor helps when you have a lift and an extra set of hands. Me and my buddy will be pulling it out tonight.

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Consider a good solid roller lifter cam and setting up the valvetrain with a rocker arm stud girdle. A milder custom grind might be in order, but once set up, you would likely only need to go through and adjust lash every 7500 miles.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Why not contact Jones cams or Bullet and get a custom cam that fits your needs. Just tell them your intended use. I would have no problem getting a cam and springs of these guy's and go with their recommendations on lifters. Crane lifters are a nice lower price option or crower for peace of mind,everything else seems to be luck of the draw these day's

He has all the vices I admire and none of the virtues I despise

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A few things I've learned from ordering custom camshafts. What you ask for is what you get. If you want something that has a rowdy demeanor and powerband from 2500-7000 then you will get exactly that. It will likely not have very good street manners below 2500, so if cruising rpms are 2200, be aware. But if you want it to be for the track, that thing will absolutely zing from 2500-7000rpms. On my last cam I asked for it to perform with power brakes and have the most power under the curve to be a good street engine and he hit the nail on the head. I couldn't be happier. Ed is also a busy man. It's racing season and it may take him a day or two to respond. I have sent 25-30 emails back and forth nailing down a camshaft, valvespring, pushrod combination in the past. It all needs to match. Usually he will not sell you the pushrods until after the cam and lifters are installed and you measure for proper length. He is not like a big camshaft company that can afford to sell mediocre and "safe" grinds. He pushes the limits. Each combination is unique and at the end of the day his name and reputation is on the line. Be prepared to pay a bit more for his knowledge, but that almost always ends up with a better running engine that meets or exceeds your expectations in the end.

Mike

__________________________________

Black 1985 GT

Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1

Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's

Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390ci, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

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Why not contact Jones cams or Bullet and get a custom cam that fits your needs. Just tell them your intended use. I would have no problem getting a cam and springs of these guy's and go with their recommendations on lifters. Crane lifters are a nice lower price option or crower for peace of mind,everything else seems to be luck of the draw these day's

 

Another for Jones cams. Contact Mike as he really knows his stuff and some of his cams have produced some outstanding results, even surprising the engine builders themselves, check him out here    http://jonescams.com/

Bullet is also another good source or also as has been stated Brent at Lykins motorsports is another great source. If you don't want to splash out on a custom grind, I've had some really good results with Howard's cams for OTS stuff.

 

 As for lifters all of the budget street series hydraulic roller lifters including, Comp, Lunati, Howard's, etc are all made by Morel but overseas. It's only their high dollar range of hydraulic roller lifters that are only made in the US. Been using Crane Hydraulic roller lifters for years without any dramas. Both Crane and Crower and others are made by the company that now owns Jonson lifters and like had been said no real problems with either of those brands over the years.

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IMG_1267.jpg

 

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I was able to get the motor out last night. I talked to bullet and comp so far and both had some very similar reconmendations. I will probably throw the comp cam in and see how it runs. Easy enough to swap if I don't like it! lol.

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Crane also has some really good SFT grinds for clevos. Crane solids like f246 or f268 have been the go to cam for stout streeters here for year's. However the grinds are getting old now and the same goes with bullet to a very small degree. That's why I would be talking to Jones or Lykins first

 

4Vforever is absolutely correct about cheaper variants of morel being made in China.

He has all the vices I admire and none of the virtues I despise

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Can you send them back and get crane's? Jesel and crower do tool steel roller's but probably a bit of overkill unless you are like me,  I can only afford to build these things once I sure as shit can't afford to do it twice. Buy once cry once is how I build my gear

He has all the vices I admire and none of the virtues I despise

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I got all my parts in and was able to get the cam swapped and new lifters in yesterday. Thanks for all the input fellas. I did end up going with a custom grind  from comp.  very similar to what I posted in my first post. With just a small change in duration. I put in a set of morel hydraulic lifters. I'm hoping to get time Sunday to drop the motor back in. If my sons go kart race gets cancelled because of rain I will get the motor back in. I will let you guys know how it behaves. 

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Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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The motor is in and seems to be running well. Only got to drive it a few miles last night after I got the motor in. It's very snappy and has a ton of power. The motor is a lot quieter with new cam and smoother. Still have some tuning to do. Need to drop in some smaller jets and adjust timing a touch. I will let my engine builder take care of that. Here's a  pic and video of first fire up. Has slight hesitation in video but it seemed to go away after it ran for a few more minutes and I got fresh gas in it. The gas was OLD from October last year. Put some fresh 93 in it and ran great.

 

 

 

IMG_1508.jpg[/url]

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Nice growl to it, sounds great.

351w - Ford racing GT40X 178 cc aluminum heads - Ford racing(crane) 1.7 roller rockers - Comp Cams 280H magnum cam .544" / .544" lift - ARP hardware - hedman longtubes - magnaflow exhaust with X pipe - Duraspark - MSD digital 6al box - MSD TFI coil - optima red top battery - tuff stuff 140 amp alternator - weiand stealth intake  - edelbrock 1406 600 carb  - march pullies and brackets - Be cool fan controller - derale electric fan - FMX trans - motive 4.11 gears - traction lok - lakewood traction bars.                                            

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks guys, its running pretty good. I drove it to work today. About 50* this morning and I hit the key and she fired right up. Its definitely running rich!! I gotta get some smaller jets in it. But overall shes doing well!!

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Nice one! They are so snappy Cleveland engine's [emoji8][emoji41][emoji106]

 

Sendt fra min F8331 med Tapatalk

So I'm a proud owner of one Mach 1 73! Regards Lars DK73:whistling:

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