trouble tuning mild 351c with holley 3310

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87fox72mach

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My Car
1995 firebird rebuilt motor 5 spd dail driver
1987 grand wagoneer plow truck
1987 mustang lx 5.0 work custom engine bay and paint
1972 mach 1 project
I finally have my car on the road and need some help tuning. here is my setup all parts new/ rebuilt

71 351c 4v heads

comp cams flat tappet cam  duration 270/270 lift 519 519

rebult stock distrubtor with single vacuum advance and pertronix ignitor 3 and matching coil

autolite 25

edelbrock intake

holley 3310-c

4 speed trans

3:50 gears

vaccum about 15 at idle

Issues:

1.) bog with giving it slight gas while driving stutters, shutters, wants to die out, occasionally gives a small pop out of carb, I'm guessing this has to do with size of accelerator pump nozzle? right now has .31 in it not sure if I need to go smaller or bigger

2.) spark knock at higher rpm maybe 2800-3500 while under load acceleration,   my timing is as follows without vac advance its at 12 btdc.  with vacuum hooked up 26 @ 2000rpm.   ive tried multiple combos with not much improvement

Me and my neighbor have been trying our best to get it right but he is an amc guy so he is not familiar with Cleveland.  driving it after pulling out and rpms get a bit higher it goes better but to much acceleration it pings/ rattles

plugs have a slight carbon build up. a little rich?  witish electrode tips,       idle mixture screws have been adjusted

appreciate any leads   hoping someone has used this carb and can get me close thanks!

 
A larger pump nozzle may help. You might also change the pump cam to the other setting.

It sounds like you're using manifold vacuum, try going to ported. Also adjust your vacuum advance so it doesn't advance so fast. What is your total mechanical advance and at what speed?

Double check for any vacuum leaks.

I would also put the points back in until you get it sorted out, just to make sure your P-3 isn't​ part of the problem.

 
I finally have my car on the road and need some help tuning. here is my setup all parts new/ rebuilt

71 351c 4v heads

comp cams flat tappet cam  duration 270/270 lift 519 519

rebult stock distrubtor with single vacuum advance and pertronix ignitor 3 and matching coil

autolite 25

edelbrock intake

holley 3310-c

4 speed trans

3:50 gears

vaccum about 15 at idle

Issues:

1.) bog with giving it slight gas while driving stutters, shutters, wants to die out, occasionally gives a small pop out of carb, I'm guessing this has to do with size of accelerator pump nozzle? right now has .31 in it not sure if I need to go smaller or bigger

Make sure the accelerator pump check valve is in place and functioning, check to see the over travelspring is properly adjusted, make sure the check needle is in place under the nozzle, and nothing is obstructing discharge nozzle itself. If everything is working properly the .031 nozzle should work. You could try a .028 to see where the edge is on size.

2.) spark knock at higher rpm maybe 2800-3500 while under load acceleration,   my timing is as follows without vac advance its at 12 btdc.  with vacuum hooked up 26 @ 2000rpm.   ive tried multiple combos with not much improvement.

Disconnect and plug the advance vacuum hose. With a timing light slowly bring the RPM up until you stop seeing an increase in advance. Note the amount of advance and the RPM at which the advance stopped advancing. Now repeat with the vacuum advance connected. This will tell you how much mechanical and vacuum advance you have as well as telling you a lot about the curve in the distributor. I don't know the details of the engine but, with 4V heads and the cam you have, 14-16 degrees initial, 20 degrees mechanical, and 6-8 degrees vacuum advance. If you don't want to do all of that, just drive the car with the vacuum advance hose disconnected and plugged. If the pinging stops you know the problem is in the calibration of the distributor/advance unit.

Me and my neighbor have been trying our best to get it right but he is an amc guy so he is not familiar with Cleveland.  driving it after pulling out and rpms get a bit higher it goes better but to much acceleration it pings/ rattles

plugs have a slight carbon build up. a little rich?  witish electrode tips,       idle mixture screws have been adjusted

The Autolite 25 plugs are probably one heat range too hot, try a 24. If the 25s are showing rich it sounds like the carb is rich. The porcelain ring at the center conductor shows AFR at idle. The middle part of the porcelain shows AFR at cruise. The very bottom of the porcelain (very hard to see) shows AFR at WOT. The point, on the ground strap, that you see a color change tells you something about timing. You want to see the color change at the middle of the curve in the ground strap.

appreciate any leads   hoping someone has used this carb and can get me close thanks!

Please let us know what you find out, it will help others in the future.  Chuck

 


EDIT: I looked up the 3310C, 72 primary jets and 6.5 in/hg power valve. You might try 70 jets and since you have 15 in/hg vacuum at idle you might try a 8.5 power valve (it will richen the mixture sooner). Just some thoughts. Chuck
 
chuck thanks for the reply. would your recommend getting a vacuum reading off of the carb at the bottom or off the manifold? I wanna get a good reading before I buy a power valve

 
Ok got Base timing set at 14 deg. Total mech advance looks like it gets me to 30 deg. I drove it without vacuum advance it seemed to have more power. Still stumbles at low rpm. Gonna try and change squirter today. Here are what my plugs look like now. I didn't notice any knocking at higher rpm that I could detect.



 
Perhaps I see your issue and is the same as I experienced from what I'm reading. I had much the same, but I'm not saying your symptoms are the total cause as there are other carb tuning issues as well as vacuum.

First off, GET RID OF THE PERTRONIX III. It is total crap on the Ford distributor. Not electronically, but in construction. I sent mine back to Pertronix with a very strong complaint about the plastic "bearing" between the two plates. I'm not going into the whole issue here, but they replaced it with an Ignitor II and coil and the problems went away for the most part. I did still need to do work on the distributor, reworking the 'slot' to equal 20* L10 and set the initial to 14* with vacuum ported on the carb. My carb also needed a bit more air at idle and my tuner guy drilled a 3/32" hole in each primary plate, solving that issue! My carb is a Holley 670 Street Avenger.

This is just my opinion, but that's where my issues lay. Now it runs pretty strong but still could be tweaked a bit more.

 
I see your point but I see many people running the pertronix 3 without issues. Not sure if that is the culprit.

 
It doesn't matter, removing the Pertronix is part of a systematic troubleshooting scenario. You eliminate potential problems one by one until you find the problem.

 
Are you saying that initial+mechanical=30 (not enough) or initial+mechanical=44 (too much)? At what RPM? It is hard to read the plug from the picture but, It looks OK at idle but, rich at cruise, can't tell about WOT. Chuck

 
Unless the Pertronix Ignitor III has finally been redesigned in recent months with a better bearing between the plates, there will be too much free play, at least .015" or half the .030" air gap. There will also be vertical movement as well, the plate will actually separate to some degree. There was no consistency on a distributor machine and the module could easily be seen moving and actually hitting the cam, leaving a mark on the module. This is why Pertronix replaced my PIII with a PII and coil, but without admitting fault.

Buyer beware!!

 
back on the car today.. changed out discharge nozzle for a .28. here are my current timing specs. at idle WITHOUT vac advanced hooked up I'm at 12/13 btdc (800 rpms) at 4k rpms I'm at like 34 deg. timing seems to still be advancing all the way up to 4k rpms. WITH VACCUM hooked up I have 18/19 btdc at idle (800 rpms) and at 4k rpms it is at like 38/40 thanks for the help so far

 
If you are using Manifold vac for the advance (sounds like you are based on increase in timing at idle when hooked up) try it using ported/timed vac. that way you don't get any vac advance at idle.

Then you may need to adjust the mechanical advance in the distributor to come on a little sooner as you should be all in by around 3000 RPM from what I know.

 
I hooked vacuum up to little port at bottom of carb. drove it. hesitation at low rpm is way better now don't get any pops etc. I didn't hear any knocking this time either I'm gonna have a second set of ears go for a ride with me later. hard to tell due to loud exhaust. I also have crane roller rockers so idk if they also may make noise. I have an 87 5.0 with fms rockers and they r a bit noisy at higher rpms

 
The little port at the bottom of the carb is manifold vac. The ported/timed vac will be above the butterflies. usually on the passenger side 1/2 to 3/4 up the side in front of the fuel bowl.

 
If full advance isn't occurring until 4K the springs are too strong. Given the heads, the cam, and the gears, I'd aim for 36 total mechanical advance by 2700 RPM with 16 initial. Set initial and the lowest RPM the engine will idle at to ensure that mechanical advance has not started and you are really seeing just initial advance. The cam isn't rowdy enough to need manifold vacuum at idle so, I'd use ported vacuum. Chuck

 
Ok update. Installed new 7.5 ppwer valve. Fresh 93 gas. Rattling still there under load. Im wondering i have have to adjust mechanical advance. But not sure how

 
This link may get you started http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/

There are several posts on this subject on this forum. Chuck

 
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