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Holley Sniper EFI and RobbMC Surge Tank, 351c and FMX


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Finally the day has come, all the parts have arrived for my switch to EFI.

 

I have decided to go with the Holley Sniper EFI, and am using the RobbMC PowerSurge II Surge Tan (PS) k to pressurize the fuel. As per the suggestion of our own Tony Muscle, I am swapping a stock fuel sending unit with the stock vent line for the charcoal canister and will use this as the 1/4" return line for the PS.

 

Here are the parts and pieces I have compiled so far:

 

 

 

Main Components:

Holley Sniper: http://www.cjponyparts.com/holley-sniper-efi-self-tuning-kit-black-ceramic-finish/p/HOLLEYEFI6/

RobbMC PowerSurge II PS500: http://robbmcperformance.com/products/powersurge.html

 

Other Components Ordered Online:

Lokar Kickdown Rod Kit for FMX: https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/lok-kd-2fmxht/overview/

Vented Gas Cap: http://www.cjponyparts.com/gas-cap-standard-vented-w-cable-1971-1973/p/GC713C/

Fuel Sending Unit: https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/rnb-692-232/overview/year/1972/make/ford/model/mustang?retaillocation=int

2x Hose Ends(connect to Sniper) https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ear-750166erl/overview/

EFI rated hose: https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ear-751066erl/overview/

10 Micron Fuel Filter: https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/tnk-ff-10/overview/

 

Parts I Got at Lordco:

Standard Fuel Filter (any old cheap one will do, goes in between the stock or electric fuel pump and the PS so no high pressure)

3ft of Gas Hose (from fuel pump to PS)

3ft of 3/16 Vacuum Hose (Sniper to Vacuum Advanced Distributor (3ft is more than enough))

 

Standard Relay (For PS)

15 amp inline fuse (For PS)

10 gauge wire (For PS (relay to fuse, fuse to battery, relay to PS)

Hose Clamps

Assortments of Butt Splices and Ring Terminals

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the coming weeks I will be posting a YouTube video to my channel on the install: www.youtube.com/DecadesCars

 

Hopefully my thread helps you out on your switch to EFI, and if you have caught anything I am overlooking or have a question feel free to post!

 

Thanks,

 

Adam Riddell

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Currently, I am swapping the sending unit into the fuel tank:

 

IMG_9453.jpg

 

 

But in the mean time I was wondering if any of you have input to where I should put my o2 sensor. I have a full dual exhaust, with long-tube headers and a X pipe as well as electric cutouts. I was initially going to put the bung right after the driver side header collector, but have heard stories of half the cylinders running rich/lean as 4 of the cylinders would be ignored. should I try and put the bung in the X pipe? Holley says you need at least 18" of exhaust pipe after the o2 sensor, and I have around 30" from the X pipe to the cutouts so that won't be an issue.

 

 

 

 

IMG_6423.jpg

 

IMG_8367.jpg

 

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Adam

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Holley recommends the sensor be placed as close to the engine as possible. That would not be the crossover pipe. The header collector is usually the best place to put the sensor. It should be installed on the top of the pipe between the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions.

 

Every engine has fuel distribution issues to one extent or another. You can usually see which cylinder or cylinders run leanest by looking at the plugs. While space constraints often dictate sensor placement, if possible, install the O2 sensor on the side that shows the leanest running cylinder. However this isn't critical.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

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This mixture diff was nicely explained in the previous Sniper thread. Running a dual planes Offenhauser intake, I've since the post looked for answers. If you run a single plane intake, mixture in it, is shared to all cylinders and could be stamped as the preffered intake type for carb to Efi. That's also naive to put it this way, as it highly depends on the efi itself and the way the Efi mimics a 4 barrels carb, the injectors on the back will not respond to the same readings as the front ones. In theory, what was true in the previous combo should be similar with the Sniper and Dp intakes 'could' be a better choice. If I can trust the Holley Techs, the unit should handle them just fine. I'll of course post my findings once this baby will be in place.

 

Did the vent cover went off tank easy? Is there any gaskets required for this vent/sending unit swap?

73 modified Grande 351C. Almost done. 

71 429CJ. In progress

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Holley recommends the sensor be placed as close to the engine as possible. That would not be the crossover pipe. The header collector is usually the best place to put the sensor. It should be installed on the top of the pipe between the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions.

 

Every engine has fuel distribution issues to one extent or another. You can usually see which cylinder or cylinders run leanest by looking at the plugs. While space constraints often dictate sensor placement, if possible, install the O2 sensor on the side that shows the leanest running cylinder. However this isn't critical.

 

+1

I have long tube headers and placed mine just before the collector flange.  You want the 10 or 2 o'clock position so that moisture does not accumulate and cause severe rusting and premature failure of the sensor.  Here is how I set mine up.

IMG_3010.thumb.JPG.c198267e45ba2898ca851b0d34595f4a.JPG

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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NewAgeMuscle,

 

Good Deal. Look for to your progress.

 

mustang7173

Thanks,

mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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That looks great, John.  I'm faced with a similar task, but I think I'm going to put mine in the tube just aft of the collector.

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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That looks great, John.  I'm faced with a similar task, but I think I'm going to put mine in the tube just aft of the collector.

 

Mister 4x4,

 

What system are you installing?

 

mustang7173

Thanks,

mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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I have a 1st-gen Edelbrock E-Street with a high pressure reservoir (returnless).  I currently have a Holley inline fuel pump (Gerotor-style - on the driver side rear frame rail in the wheel well) that currently feeds the Edelbrock 1406 Performer carb - which I'll be leaving in-line as a lift pump.  I had a rotary vane Holley "Black" pump [in the same location] but it was too noisy (constant droning that was louder than the car running), so I swapped to the Holley Mighty Mite.  It only makes some minor thumping noises initially (to prime the line), then is quiet afterward.

 

I need to get the O2 sensor bung installed first, plus I need to have some other exhaust work done... but scheduling the time to do that during the week is just a PITA.  Hopefully, soon I'll have a chance to get it done.

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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I also installed 02 sensor just after the flange for my longtube headers on the passenger side. Ideal would have been just before the collector (in the header itself) but it is just far less work to remove the exhaust pipe to work on then the header.

 

Less gaskets for the exhaust to flow through before hitting the sensor means less places for a potential leak. And an exhaust leak on these self learning systems makes for significant running problems. I also switched my header gaskets to nice extra thick ones as well as thick remflex gaskets for the collector.

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Just received mail from Summit that the package has left the building! yeah!

 

However just tried order a Dorman sending unit (linked above by NewAgeMuscle) Not in stock :(

Any idea where to order one? CJPony has a 20 buxx cheaper unit, but it was reported in other sniper thread that it leaks.

 

Meanwhile Mr 351 is ready :) 

whereismysniper.jpg

73 modified Grande 351C. Almost done. 

71 429CJ. In progress

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http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=66

 

This appears to be a nice one with brass float. Unless your existing one is also new and has a brass float, I would use your old one for the vent and use this one for your fuel supply and sending unit.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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I also installed 02 sensor just after the flange for my longtube headers on the passenger side. Ideal would have been just before the collector (in the header itself) but it is just far less work to remove the exhaust pipe to work on then the header.

 

Less gaskets for the exhaust to flow through before hitting the sensor means less places for a potential leak. And an exhaust leak on these self learning systems makes for significant running problems. I also switched my header gaskets to nice extra thick ones as well as thick remflex gaskets for the collector.

 

Good point. ::thumb::   :chin:

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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@Don C...

I just tried order at ohiomustang. registered, picked the item and then proceeding to checkout --> Order Offline :(

Do you guys know the owner?

73 modified Grande 351C. Almost done. 

71 429CJ. In progress

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I have a 1st-gen Edelbrock E-Street with a high pressure reservoir (returnless).  I currently have a Holley inline fuel pump (Gerotor-style - on the driver side rear frame rail in the wheel well) that currently feeds the Edelbrock 1406 Performer carb - which I'll be leaving in-line as a lift pump.  I had a rotary vane Holley "Black" pump [in the same location] but it was too noisy (constant droning that was louder than the car running), so I swapped to the Holley Mighty Mite.  It only makes some minor thumping noises initially (to prime the line), then is quiet afterward.

 

I need to get the O2 sensor bung installed first, plus I need to have some other exhaust work done... but scheduling the time to do that during the week is just a PITA.  Hopefully, soon I'll have a chance to get it done.

 

Hello Eric (Mister 4x4)

 

I have the FiTech EFI 400 and there are days I just want to rip the thing off and go back to the carburetor. I have seen two FiTech 600's on other machines, running just pretty as can be. I will keep plugging away at it. I hope you find some time real soon!

 

mustang7173 :bravo:

Thanks,

mustang7173 🇺🇸

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway" -- John Wayne

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@Don C...

I just tried order at ohiomustang. registered, picked the item and then proceeding to checkout --> Order Offline  :(

Do you guys know the owner?

 

I don't know him personally, just by reputation. He's a forum member and advertiser and a go-to guy for quality parts. You can send him a PM directly. He's known as Don at OMS.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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@Don C

I did recall read he was among users... meanwhile got a reply from their site/sales, turns out their system can't calculate shipments costs for Europe...

Weird, as there are options for outside usa customers. Gonna ping him, thx.

 

Edit: Got a (nice) client of mine living in Ohio, he placed the order for me. As it looks like they have issues to implement shipments costs for non US

in their payment system. I hope their parts are better than their IT :)

73 modified Grande 351C. Almost done. 

71 429CJ. In progress

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http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=66

 

This appears to be a nice one with brass float. Unless your existing one is also new and has a brass float, I would use your old one for the vent and use this one for your fuel supply and sending unit.

 

For my application, and I believe Fabrice's as well, we are using the sending unit as a replacement for the vent cap to create a bigger orifice for a return line (idea by TonyMuscle). So float didn't really matter as I cut everything off as shown in the picture on the first page  ::thumb::

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So haven't been able to do too much work on the car in the last week, but made my o2 sensor hole... Rented a right angle drill, but all the drill bits would keep skating on the stainless exhaust (tried to make a pilot hole with a small drill bit to no avail), so gave up on the header collector and dropped the bit of exhaust behind it to get more room. Did not want to do the hammer and punch hole type method initially as I was worried the pipe would dent before I got a hole. However, after a couple hours I gave up and decided to take a hammer and a self tapping screw to the pipe and it worked well as a pilot. Unfortunately, I was tired so I just assumed that the sensor placement was only so water would not collect on it, therefore I decided to make the hole directly on the top of the pipe After the fact I realized there was probably a good explanation as to why everyone puts theirs in on a slight angle (condensation?). 

 

Regardless, proper or not, this is how the setup looks now and I'll run with it for the time being. However, if I see any problems concerning tuning or anything that looks like it could be because of the sensor, I will drill another hole and put a new one in. 

 

Pictures (Imgbb isnt working so hopefully you can see these attached photos): 

 

 

 

 

IMG_6596.thumb.JPG.2ec50f9aa6e51352c226eeabc92907b9.JPG

 

IMG_6595.thumb.JPG.f17e6771f409de7febb84bb301c9d1a0.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also before anyone says anything, I know the plastic cap is still on the sensor, it is not installed yet was just there as a dry fit  lollerz

 

Will be starting on installing the PowerSurge tank today :)

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What I said (at least meant) is if the sending unit and float that are now in your tank are old or of unknown quality is to replace your old sending unit with the new one and then modify your old one for the vent/return.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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What I said (at least meant) is if the sending unit and float that are now in your tank are old or of unknown quality is to replace your old sending unit with the new one and then modify your old one for the vent/return.

 

Oh gotcha, I probably mis-interpreted it  :shootself:

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bigbox0.jpg

Last weekend, as package was still somewhere in deep usa, I started prep a bit and made a plate

for the old mechanical pump. Made of the very same aluminum plate I've used to make my steering wheel

and few other small parts. Prolly the best $20 investment I've ever made on the mustang :)

 

Yesterday I finally received the baby. Dutch import taxes added almost $400 extra damage.

(if you're dutch and sending comes via UPS, think that you'll have to call UPS and ask how much once you see on tracker it has gone beyond customs,

as they accept only cash, of the exact amount on delivery. They will claim they have mailed you about the costs. As its the third time UPS delivers me parts from usa, I know for sure they don't. If you don't, you're good for another trip in center of country to get your package. On my second experience with them, they claimed they came back, which was a big fat lie.)

 

bigbox1.jpg

So thats how the kit looks like. big box with two boxes. One the sniper kit, the other the pump/fittings kit.

 

bigbox2.jpg

The unit in second box is well protected and with all the promissed wires.

One cheap move from Holley, is that their their tech pdf says the kit has 40ft of fuel lines. Turns out only 20 are provided.

I'll know for sure later on if that's enuff, but at first sight, it seems a bit short to install the return line from engine as well.

As also described in their pdf, the kit comes with some chevy plate for the old pump. hence why I did the plate earlier.

 

bigbox3.jpg

As I have a custom ram-air, made a quick test with spacer...

 

bigbox4.jpg

Here a pict from side. Turns out I'll have to change/redo something as it turns out

alignment is not exactly same as with my Holley 650 DP. There's like 1.5 cm diff.

Chances i'll have to remove the spacer are high.. I wanted keep it to reduce potential

problems that may occur on dual planes.

 

So first thing on the todo: ensure I can close the hood :)

 

@Don C, Gotcha too! Big thx for this vent/sending unit tip. Saves drilling/extra nipple and eases a lot the installation.

It's safe, cheap and very clean.

I don't even really need to fully empty the tank (+- 2 gallons in there) and might even be able to do the swap by dropping the tank just a bit.

As I painted the tank a while back and all clamps are clean, greased, that should not be a prob to lower it down gently.

Unfortunately the sending unit is still in Ohio...

 

Just like NewAgeMuscle, i'll post more picts as I go.

73 modified Grande 351C. Almost done. 

71 429CJ. In progress

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bigbox0.jpg

Last weekend, as package was still somewhere in deep usa, I started prep a bit and made a plate

for the old mechanical pump. Made of the very same aluminum plate I've used to make my steering wheel

and few other small parts. Prolly the best $20 investment I've ever made on the mustang :)

 

Yesterday I finally received the baby. Dutch import taxes added almost $400 extra damage.

(if you're dutch and sending comes via UPS, think that you'll have to call UPS and ask how much once you see on tracker it has gone beyond customs,

as they accept only cash, of the exact amount on delivery. They will claim they have mailed you about the costs. As its the third time UPS delivers me parts from usa, I know for sure they don't. If you don't, you're good for another trip in center of country to get your package. On my second experience with them, they claimed they came back, which was a big fat lie.)

 

bigbox1.jpg

So thats how the kit looks like. big box with two boxes. One the sniper kit, the other the pump/fittings kit.

 

bigbox2.jpg

The unit in second box is well protected and with all the promissed wires.

One cheap move from Holley, is that their their tech pdf says the kit has 40ft of fuel lines. Turns out only 20 are provided.

I'll know for sure later on if that's enuff, but at first sight, it seems a bit short to install the return line from engine as well.

As also described in their pdf, the kit comes with some chevy plate for the old pump. hence why I did the plate earlier.

 

bigbox3.jpg

As I have a custom ram-air, made a quick test with spacer...

 

bigbox4.jpg

Here a pict from side. Turns out I'll have to change/redo something as it turns out

alignment is not exactly same as with my Holley 650 DP. There's like 1.5 cm diff.

Chances i'll have to remove the spacer are high.. I wanted keep it to reduce potential

problems that may occur on dual planes.

 

So first thing on the todo: ensure I can close the hood :)

 

@Don C, Gotcha too! Big thx for this vent/sending unit tip. Saves drilling/extra nipple and eases a lot the installation.

It's safe, cheap and very clean.

I don't even really need to fully empty the tank (+- 2 gallons in there) and might even be able to do the swap by dropping the tank just a bit.

As I painted the tank a while back and all clamps are clean, greased, that should not be a prob to lower it down gently.

Unfortunately the sending unit is still in Ohio...

 

Just like NewAgeMuscle, i'll post more picts as I go.

 

Looks great Fabrice! Hopefully mine clears my hood, haven't checked yet, was planning on keeping my 1" spacer as well. That custom ram air looks really cool as well.

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For the latest update, I am now trying to find a place to put my 3/8" coolant temp sensor. Does it matter if I put it in the head vs the intake manifold? I am running 2v Closed Chamber Australian Heads, anyone know where I could put the sensor? Is there a place to put it in the head? Or should I put it in the intake somewhere?

 

Intake (Edelbrock Performer 2750):

 

IMG_6615.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Crappy picture of passenger side head:

 

IMG_6616.jpg

 

 

image hosting com

 

 

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Adam

 

-EDIT-

 

On the thread https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-coolant-sensor-thread-size?page=2&highlight=coolant+temp+sensor

it shows a place on the water pump I could put the sensor. Will this be fine even though Holley recommends either the manifold or the heads?

 

Could I put it in where the circled bronze plug is?

 

IMG_6617.png

 

Here is the part of the water pump I am referring to:

 

 

IMG_6618.jpg

 

 

 

EDIT EDIT

 

Was just told Clevos don'y even have coolant running through the intake rip  :shootself:

 

Looks like the best bet is that water pump plug?

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351Cs have a dry manifold, no coolant in them. Replace your stock coolant temperature gauge sensor with the sensor for the EFI and move the temperature gauge sensor to the plug on the side of the water pump.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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