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Who is using EFI in their cars


jbojo
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Just curious who and which system you put in your cars and what you think about it.

 

I'll start with my setup:

MSD Atomic, installed about 3 years ago.

Using a 6AL ignition control

MSD mechanical advance distributor (Advance is locked out)

 

Using a return fuel system with the ECU controlling timing.  So far no issues with the system and good fuel economy and power.

 

Con:  when starting the first time I have to crank it over a few times before it starts.  Can probably fix this issue but not really that bad to deal with.  Learning curve was difficult setting this system up but once its set up it works great.

 

Pro: price has dropped significantly.  Motor runs really well.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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On my 65 fastback I'm using the Holley terminator with the aeromotive stealth tank

 

 

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My efi looks like a double pumper

I can fix it easier than a carb

I can tune it easier and faster

With the exception of a couple of wires it looks like a carb.

Drivability is way better, better performance. When I get to the point on my boss 1 car, forget that $5k carb, fuel injection and 6 speed for that car too

 

 

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My 73 vert is the stock 351C, but my 69 convertible restomod has the original vehicle 302c.i. block converted in 2006 to Accel Gen 7 DFI multiport fuel injection with Edlebrock Air Gap intake machined for multiport injectors, Edelbrock 3878 1000cfm Throttle body, ProComp 175 Al heads (extensively reworked by the builder), Accel Dual Sync Distributor and Accel 24 lb injectors.  Engine Dyno turned 281 HP / 287 Ft # at 5100 rpm.  The target was primarily for reliability and mild street performance.

 

 

DSCN1101.jpg

 

I'm not particularly happy that the builder choose the ProComp heads, but it was 2006 and he did extensive work on them and I've never had an issue so far.  I have the computer mounted under the dash above the radio and can plug my laptop into the USB cables that are coiled inside the glove compartment.

 

With the AOD transmission and 3:55 Eaton Tru Trak rear end, it's a lot of fun to drive.  Instant start and mid-20's mpg.

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I'm running fast efi 1.0 The car runs better then it did with the 750dp but still has a few quirks due to the low vacuum (6-7inHg at idle). Cold start is ok but you need to keep it running for the first 15 seconds or so. the system supports up to 650hp. I'm running on a 4v OC Cleveland with Torker single plane intake and a pretty big erson cam.

 

Power band is great, runs nice and smooth and fuel mileage is noticeably better (haven't calculated though)

Running it off a full return fuel system that I built feeding off factory feed line and returning to a bung I Added. Feed is braided SS Teflon, and return is adapted to the factory fuel line with the braided ss line.

 

Pro's

Cheap (got mine used)

F.A.S.T was one of the first to use a system like this, they have quite a good reputation.

Throttle body is compact enough to use a drop base air cleaner due to the external ecu (an often overlooked item as far as hood clearance goes.)

can control fan (one output)

can control fuel pump

 

Cons:

no ignition control

no boost support

dated handheld (does the job though and there is an upgrade option)

no laptop tuning

no cam profile selection

no (official) nitrous support

 

Other thoughts; it would be nice to be able to turn off the learning function for some circumstances; or revert back to some form of saved file. (if you ever get an exhaust leak it will basicly make itit practically inoperable)

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I'm running fast efi 1.0 The car runs better then it did with the 750dp but still has a few quirks due to the low vacuum (6-7inHg at idle). Cold start is ok but you need to keep it running for the first 15 seconds or so. the system supports up to 650hp. I'm running on a 4v OC Cleveland with Torker single plane intake and a pretty big erson cam.

 

Power band is great, runs nice and smooth and fuel mileage is noticeably better (haven't calculated though)

Running it off a full return fuel system that I built feeding off factory feed line and returning to a bung I Added. Feed is braided SS Teflon, and return is adapted to the factory fuel line with the braided ss line.

 

Pro's

Cheap (got mine used) although not compared to some other budget setups.

F.A.S.T was one of the first to use a system like this, they have quite a good reputation.

Throttle body is compact enough to use a drop base air cleaner due to the external ecu (an often overlooked item as far as hood clearance goes.)

can control fan (one output)

can control fuel pump

 

Cons:

no ignition control

no boost support

dated handheld (does the job though and there is an upgrade option)

no laptop tuning

no cam profile selection

no (official) nitrous support

 

Other thoughts; it would be nice to be able to turn off the learning function for some circumstances; or revert back to some form of saved file. (if you ever get an exhaust leak it will basicly make itit practically inoperable)

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I'm kind of still a wannabe.  A lot of guys suffer from 'it's too dang cold to work on the car' over the winter... and I've hit that point in the year where 'it's too damn hot to work on the car,' with our 100+ degree days.  The sub-100 degree days usually get sucked into chores, then I don't want to work on the car.

 

But, I do have a complete Edelbrock E-Street w/supply tank still in-box in the garage.  I'm trying to figure out when will be a good time to take it in to get the O2 sensor bung welded in before I can start the install... but I already have an inline Holley 'lift-pump' pushing go-juice to the Edelbrock 1406 the TBI will replace.  I'm still kind of 'breaking in' the engine as well, which I figure I'll stick with the carb through that.

 

So, I suppose I'm kind of halfway there... "ish."   :whistling:

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

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Holley Sniper, Holley billet pump and filters along with a stainless fuel tank. I chose Holley since their name is tangible with the Ford name, I wanted to keep an oem look to the car and the Holley did it for me. Otherwise most any EFI system currently on the market does the job well.

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I am running FiTech's GoEFI 600 over a 1" phenolic spacer and an Edelbrock Performer manifold. For fuel delivery, I am running the stock tank and mechanical pump feeding a RobBMC PowerSurge pump. I modified the top of the tank with an old sending unit to use as a return point through the charcoal canister vent line. The pump is located where the charcoal canister was. The pump is insulated and shielded to protect it from header heat.

Right now I am not using the timing control feature. I will wait until I stroke the motor to set the timing control. Vacuum is right at 13. The oxygen sensor is in the adapter between the collector and pipe, approximately 2" behind the collector on the right side bank.

 

I have run two tanks so far. I am not seeing much improvement in mileage. I am at 10-12 MPG. However, a lot of these miles have been under a lot of constant acceleration to test the system.

Pros: starts right away on cold or hot; car doesn't stall when cold; the engine bay still looks very stock unless you really look hard and see extra wires, hoses and fuses. I love the LCD screen which is taking the place of the ashtray in my center console.

Cons: still tweaking the acceleration pump parameters. Right now it bugs down slightly under soft and hard acceleration.

 

20170523_235115.jpg

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Currently installing a Sniper and planning FMX-AOD swap in not too far future.

@tony-muscle, what's your trans & rear end ratio?

@4mm Any pict on the fuel pump location/install? Also is it much noisy vs an in-tank one?

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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Currently installing a Sniper and planning FMX-AOD swap in not too far future.

@tony-muscle, what's your trans & rear end ratio?

C6 and 3.00

This will change over the winter to a TKO600 and unknown rear end ratio. After the mods, I will start with the stock 3.00 in the rear and depending on how it feels I may change it or not. I am also stroking to 408 so I will have enough low end torque. For sure I will eventually add a Truetrac, but don't know what gear yet.

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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@tony-muscle

TKO600 requires new pedals set, modification of the steering lock, interior, shiftter no?

Sounds like a nice winter project!

 

I was asking kuz, I'm hoping to get much better mileage on the 73 with the Sniper first and overdrive later on.

I'm sure I will. It can't possibly be worse than with my 650 DP carb that seams make the car run on pure fuel with no to little air in mixture...

Never been able to tune the carb so it gave me an acceptable balance between cruise and fun. Always been one or the other.

So lets just assume its me sucking big time at carb tuning.

 

Your 10-12MPG is like (19-23 liters per 100 km). Even if you said most was done while you had your lead shoes on. Is still very high to me.

My 93 5.0 HO T-bird, like 2 tons in weight with more than 250k miles on, gives me 1/2 of that in average. It drives daily 70 kms at mainly @130-140 kph

(80/90 mph) on highway and 25% of the trip is city stop/go. Even if not the youngest driver, i'm not driving like a 70yo guy.

So sure you can't really compair both cars (tho the 5.0 feels strangely similar to the cleveland in many ways), the injection is more complex, the EC4 comp knows more at cyl/injector level than an carb replacement EFI would. It also has overdrive,

has much better aero dynamics than our beloved Mustangs designed as parachutes. But my 73, is also at least 600 kilos lighter.

 

So I wonder where the most of efficiency loss goes. I don't mind it's thirsty at times. I mean, I'm not trying to build an economical car either,

just seeking at a way to lower costs greatly when driving like a civilised person on highway.

For info, fuel is about an average of 1.6 euros per liter here, thats 7.3 dollars a gallon, which might help you get why I'd love save a few drops here and there.

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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@tony-muscle

TKO600 requires new pedals set, modification of the steering lock, interior, shiftter no?

Sounds like a nice winter project!

 

I was asking kuz, I'm hoping to get much better mileage on the 73 with the Sniper first and overdrive later on.

I'm sure I will. It can't possibly be worse than with my 650 DP carb that seams make the car run on pure fuel with no to little air in mixture...

Never been able to tune the carb so it gave me an acceptable balance between cruise and fun. Always been one or the other.

So lets just assume its me sucking big time at carb tuning.

 

Your 10-12MPG is like (19-23 liters per 100 km). Even if you said most was done while you had your lead shoes on. Is still very high to me.

My 93 5.0 HO T-bird, like 2 tons in weight with more than 250k miles on, gives me 1/2 of that in average. It drives daily 70 kms at mainly @130-140 kph

(80/90 mph) on highway and 25% of the trip is city stop/go. Even if not the youngest driver, i'm not driving like a 70yo guy.

So sure you can't really compair both cars (tho the 5.0 feels strangely similar to the cleveland in many ways), the injection is more complex, the EC4 comp knows more at cyl/injector level than an carb replacement EFI would. It also has overdrive,

has much better aero dynamics than our beloved Mustangs designed as parachutes. But my 73, is also at least 600 kilos lighter.

 

So I wonder where the most of efficiency loss goes. I don't mind it's thirsty at times. I mean, I'm not trying to build an economical car either,

just seeking at a way to lower costs greatly when driving like a civilised person on highway.

For info, fuel is about an average of 1.6 euros per liter here, thats 7.3 dollars a gallon, which might help you get why I'd love save a few drops here and there.

 

Overdrive made a huge difference on mine. Running a built 351c with a 750 DP and 3.70 gears and I got around 16 MPG on the Hot Rod Power Tour this year (good mix of highway and stop and quite a bit of rather spirited driving, not to mention numerous burnouts in the hotel parking lots at night). I swapped out the old FMX for a T5 with a 0.68 OD. Made a massive difference in mileage and fun factor at the same time.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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@tony-muscle

TKO600 requires new pedals set, modification of the steering lock, interior, shiftter no?

Sounds like a nice winter project!

 

I was asking kuz, I'm hoping to get much better mileage on the 73 with the Sniper first and overdrive later on.

I'm sure I will. It can't possibly be worse than with my 650 DP carb that seams make the car run on pure fuel with no to little air in mixture...

Never been able to tune the carb so it gave me an acceptable balance between cruise and fun. Always been one or the other.

So lets just assume its me sucking big time at carb tuning.

 

Your 10-12MPG is like (19-23 liters per 100 km). Even if you said most was done while you had your lead shoes on. Is still very high to me.

My 93 5.0 HO T-bird, like 2 tons in weight with more than 250k miles on, gives me 1/2 of that in average. It drives daily 70 kms at mainly @130-140 kph

(80/90 mph) on highway and 25% of the trip is city stop/go. Even if not the youngest driver, i'm not driving like a 70yo guy.

So sure you can't really compair both cars (tho the 5.0 feels strangely similar to the cleveland in many ways), the injection is more complex, the EC4 comp knows more at cyl/injector level than an carb replacement EFI would. It also has overdrive,

has much better aero dynamics than our beloved Mustangs designed as parachutes. But my 73, is also at least 600 kilos lighter.

 

So I wonder where the most of efficiency loss goes. I don't mind it's thirsty at times. I mean, I'm not trying to build an economical car either,

just seeking at a way to lower costs greatly when driving like a civilised person on highway.

For info, fuel is about an average of 1.6 euros per liter here, thats 7.3 dollars a gallon, which might help you get why I'd love save a few drops here and there.

 

Overdrive made a huge difference on mine. Running a built 351c with a 750 DP and 3.70 gears and I got around 16 MPG on the Hot Rod Power Tour this year (good mix of highway and stop and quite a bit of rather spirited driving, not to mention numerous burnouts in the hotel parking lots at night). I swapped out the old FMX for a T5 with a 0.68 OD. Made a massive difference in mileage and fun factor at the same time.

 

I get about 17 mpg with 3.89 Tru-Trac, C6 and GV overdrive.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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@jbojo was looking at GV overdrive for FMX.

http://www.gearvendors.com/product/automatic-3-speed-fmx-3/?TYPE=STREET-STRIP

At transport/taxes rate we have here, I must say the price tag cooled me down right away vs the AOD alternative.

Same for T5/6 option, comes for me here at a +-5k. while a new TCI streefighter at +- 1.5k. Even much lower if I buy another donor 91-93 t-bird here,

However this system looks very nice, how does that work? you got the factor OD applied on demand, on all speeds?

 

If you guys say you get 16-17mpg (13-14 liters per 100 km) average that gives me good hope i'll get similar once done. Thx for the feedback.

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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@jbojo was looking at GV overdrive for FMX.

http://www.gearvendors.com/product/automatic-3-speed-fmx-3/?TYPE=STREET-STRIP

At transport/taxes rate we have here, I must say the price tag cooled me down right away vs the AOD alternative.

Same for T5/6 option, comes for me here at a +-5k. while a new TCI streefighter at +- 1.5k. Even much lower if I buy another 91-93 t-bird here,

However this system looks very nice, how does that work? you got the factor OD applied on demand, on all speeds?

 

You can operate it in manual or auto mode.  I always use auto so I get 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then OD.  In manual mode you can get 1st, 1st OD, 2nd, 2nd OD and so forth.  It will be like a 6 spd gear box.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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Neat! Prolly a very nice option to have while driving in mountainous regions.

Did you need shorten your trans axle?

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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Neat! Prolly a very nice option to have while driving in mountainous regions.

Did you need shorten your trans axle?

 

Yes but not much.  I wound up having a new one made and kept the original one in case I wanted to convert it back.

-john

(jbojo)

351C 4V cc heads, 10.5 : 1 CR, 290 Herbert cam, Flat top forged pistons, forged connecting rods, Atomic efi,

C6 with Gear Vendor overdrive, 3.89 Tru Trac, Hooker Super Comp with 2 1/2" Pypes Exhaust.        

 

Some Mod pictures can be seen at: [button=http://www.7173mustangs.com/forum-garage?filterxt_uid=2026]Bojo's Garage[/button]

 

 

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