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Circle Track 3 Speed Manual


jdwest711
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Hello Everyone,  I'm new to this site and I'm reaching out because I know very little about manual transmissions.  Here is the back story:

 

I've been racing a 72 Coupe at the local dirt and pavement circle tracks in the Factory/Bomber division.  In 2015 we won the Bomber Championship.  In 2016 I let my daughter drive.  In 2017 they won't allow Mustangs in the Bomber division anymore so I'm forced to move up the Pro Stock division.  I am the only Ford out there running against the OTHER manufacture.  I won't ever mention that name because they makes me sick.

 

Since I've stepped up to Pro Stock I've been getting faster every race.  My current best lap time is 19.58.  I need to knock off 1.2 more seconds to be competitive with the leaders. I know that is a lot but I am going to give it one heck of a try.

 

During the last race I was black flagged around lap 13 for smoking.  The transmission is leaking bad and flinging oil onto the exhaust.  I believe I am going to have to rebuild it.  I would love to be able to lighted it by removing 1st gear and/or lightening 2nd and 3rd.  I've seen this with the OTHER manufacture but I don't know if it possible with the Ford 3 speed.

 

The two transmissions I currently have to work with are "RAN BW 012198" and "HEF BK 041270".  I'm not opposed to buying something else if it gets me to where I need to be.

 

 

If anyone knows tricks, tips, how to, parts suppliers, or just want to BS about racing, please let me know!!!

 

Thanks, Jim

 

436224031_72MustangWin.jpg.8963b7c4c790f3704be00fcdfb2e7662.jpg

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Hello from North Carolina and welcome to the site.

It has been too long since I worked in the race shop, lol. Back in the 60's and early 70's.

I will not assume anything but only make suggestions of what we use to put into cars back then.

Have you removed ever bit of weight from the roof sail panels and all reinforcements and sanded the metal to nothing. Get all the weight off the upper parts of the car and put weight down low to make your min. weigh in.

Have you altered any of the front suspension geometry? I cannot give you what you need but should be on the net. Simple things like Shelby did with the early mustangs like relocating the control arms I think 1" to lower the car big help. Also mount a video camera under the front of the car to watch your suspension. You might have to mount in several places to get good views. Look for control arms twisting. sway bars not working correct etc.

I do not know what engine you are running, 240 6 cyl. 300 6 cyl. 302, 351 W, 351C??? Again I do not know your rule book. Can you alter valve train what are the limits. Any weight you can get off the front to balance the car more do so ounces count up.

What are you allowed to do in the rear? Have you set the rear at an angle to improve handling? Are you allowed to use a cable of chain to limit the body lean in corner? I am sure you have full roll cage so body twist should not be an issue. You need a strong platform and let the suspension do it's job.

Any weight you can remove from the un sprung weight do so looks like the wheels you have have lots of holes to remove the weight. Use the lightest brake rotors and drums you can get by with.

The shop I worked in was Roger Ingram. His brother Jack Ingram won the NASCAR National sportsmans class I think 7 times. He had the most wins in NASCAR in the old Busch series except for one other driver Mark Martin and he is in the NASCAR hall of fame. He never had a car on the track that was 100% to the rules and legal. You have to push every rule you can to the limit or you will never win.

There were times he ran a 6 cylinder and beat the V-8 back in the 60's. I won't say how but it was not legal and never got found in inspection or tear down.

When the rules use to tell the tech inspector to pull the right head and measure the front cylinder for displacement. The other 7 cylinders were bored to the max and six of the other cylinders had a longer stroke. Then they went to checking through plug hole or pulling both heads and checking all cylinders that ended, lol. He use to laugh and say "He who cheats the most wins the most".

They closed down the little 1/3 mile track in Asheville years ago due to noise. There use to be some great drivers here back then.

Me and my son used some of the rule bending tricks when we race WKA carts and did quite good and never got caught in tech inspection. Even had one of the head tech inspectors tear down once and he did not find.

It sounds bad but the guys that are winning are not legal somewhere I am sure. They find every loop hole in the rules and maybe bend some also. The last race that Richard Petty won he was torn down and found to be not legal, engine was oversize on CI. His car was never legal when he raced. You have to think outside the box and get creative. Seeing what is going on in your front end will tell you where to work on it so do the video.

Be nosy and look at other cars and what they are doing different.

Curious, why no Mustangs in the old class? I know in the past the 4 cylinder mustangs in FOX bodies were the cars to run on dirt and short tracks here. Lots of SVO's got used up. I quit going to races but I understand you being addicted to it.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Great suggestion!!! Thank you. Here is a little more information on my car. It is running a 351C, 3 speed manual and a 9”. The engine has just been rebuilt and it is 9.5:1, flat top pistons, roller tip rockers and a decent cam suggest by Comp. It runs good.

 

The car is heavy. I like your ideas of ways to lose weight. This winter it is going on a diet!

 

The Shelby modification doesn’t work on the 71/73 because the area where the A-arm is bolted to matches the contour of the bushings. When lowered it doesn’t fit. (Ask me how I know). Serious modification would have to be done to the mounting area. Plus I read that Ford fixed the geometry issues that that modification would help for the earlier Mustangs.

 

I have lowered the car and it has good springs up front but the rear spring I have to get specially made enable to run similar equipment as the OTHER manufacture. Currently the best spring I found and installed are 152lbs and 138lbs. That is the only mod I’ve done to the back. I’m going to special order 200 & 225lbs springs eventually. I like your idea of using a camera to watch the suspension.

 

Wheels are racing wheel but I could probably find a lighter rotor.

 

I just found out last race that the competition is using aluminum sheets to build door panels and fender instead of using stock parts. Their body lines are easier to duplicate then the Mustang but that is also something I might try.

 

I’ve never wanted to remove structural weight from the sail panels and roof. I always thought of that as extra protection. But I think you are right, it’s time to remove weigh and let the cage do its job. It’s a good professional built cage so there should be no issues.

 

Currently my issue is the transmission, it leaks and I need to rebuild it and hopefully lighten it. So if there is anyone with information out there, please let me know. THANK YOU!!!

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Do you have to run the Ford transmission, or can you go with a Falcon or Brinn aluminum 2-speed?

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Below is how the rule reads.

 

Only standard volume produced domestic type transmissions are permitted. No aftermarket Production transmissions are permitted. Automatic transmissions are allowed. Stock-style converter required.

 

Although I believe if you paint it blue the Techs wouldn't know the difference. (Hope they don't read this)

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I am glad that has stirred you thoughts. Anything that requires a force to rotate is a candidate for weight reduction. The parts in the transmission can have the guts cut out of them. You have to carbide hard turn them or use and EDM Electrical Discharge Machine to remove material. Flywheel can have lbs. cut off unless they allow aluminum. Every time you take rotating weight off you make your rotating assembly accelerate faster. It does not matter if it is in the engine, transmission, rear, brakes, wheels anywhere you get rid of weight it gains. Work on all the little things and get the video. You might add some extra reinforcements. Look at using some of the HSS or UHSS High Strength Steels or Ultra High Strength Steels. You can gain 4 times the strength with the same thickness just use good steel. Find someone in your area that does stampings. See if you can get some scraps to use. You can make huge gains.

Tell me more about your engine specs?

You can port an aluminum intake without a grinder you know.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Just some other food for thought. I went to an auction at a 6 bay automotive service center. I got the brake lathe for $350 the alignment machine went for $350 also. If you had one of those you could play with your front and real alignment for no cost. Nobody wants the old ones without lasers. But would be great for you to play with your race car. The alignment of the rear is a big part of handling. We call it dog tracking here. If you were to drive behind the car the rear is offset from the front. Makes it much better in turns but have to muscle it in the straight. It is a balance act you have to find the sweet spot. See if you can find one for your shop. Do you have scales to weight the car out?

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Below is my 351C build sheet. We put this together in my garage and it's running strong. Nothing illegal here, it's built right at the limit. Our max compression limit is 9.5:1 Maybe I could have gone bigger on the cam but it's the one I Comp recommended. No porting and polishing allowed.

 

Most of my front end alignment is done with a bubble gauge from Speedway Motors and and tape measure. It isn't as good as a machine but at least I can get it close in my garage. My buddy has scales, I use them sometimes. We also have scales at the track to let me know information on the changes that I do.

 

Screw in Studs and Guild Plates $16.12 * 8 $128.96

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-52655-2?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-crane-cams&gclid=Cj0KCQjwub7NBRDJARIsAP7wlT_Og6ml-WQconHfW_kP1-pAe4ZPIwMVxzohtlS0L8KJFGOhQ68Ng8IaAtasEALw_wcB

 

Roller Tip Rocker Arms $119.99

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/351C-429-460-Ford-Steel-Roller-Rocker-Arms,6796.html

 

COMP Cams High Energy Hydraulic Lifters 832-12 $82.99

http://www.jegs.com/i/Lunati/638/71900G-16/10002/-1

 

COMP Cams 32-224-4 Magnum Hydraulic Camshaft, Ford 351C/351M/400 $144.99

Part # 282322244

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/COMP-Cams-32-224-4-Magnum-Hydraulic-Camshaft-Ford-351C-351M-400,218830.html

 

PUSHRODS, FORD 351C, 8.408" X 5/16 HARDENED $37.39

https://www.alexsparts.com/pushrods-ford-351c-8-408-x-5-16-hardened/

 

ARP Oil Pump Drive Shaft $20.26

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-154-7905

 

Melling High-Volume Oil Pump $51.25

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-m84ahv?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-melling&gclid=Cj0KCQjwub7NBRDJARIsAP7wlT-Fv8HK9zOsTkKMO9r9hdTA3DgFqSaV6pzFrdkI2AmV2ELQlO28gnQaAkBWEALw_wcB

 

Mr. Gasket Intake Gasket Sets 211 $19.93

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-211

 

Water Pump $69.97

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-312469/overview/make/ford

 

Fuel Pump $48.84

http://www.jegs.com/i/RPC/707/R2306/10002/-1

 

Water Plate Restrictor $28.51

https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/waterrestrictplate.html?attribs=85

 

Heads @ Gary's $421.00

New Intake Valves

New Keepers

Valve Job

Reused Springs and Retainers (They are matched for the cam)

 

Flat Top Pistons L2379 .30

Block bored .030

Crank ground 10-10

 

March Performance Crankshaft Pulleys 1614-08 5.5 Diameter $81.97

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mch-1614-08/overview/make/ford

Front Hub Not Installed Yet, It's on Back Order

 

Edelbrock Performer Intake

Comp Headers

Holley 4412

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You might try a set of the Australian heads with the intake port size of the 2-V but with big valves. They sell them on eBay all the time and we have members there you might convince to ship you a pair. On a small track the low rpm torque is what you need to pull you out of the turns. You probably never get reved up enough to need the big ports. They work on 1  1/2 mile and up tracks.

I do not think you need to port a cleveland for your track. If anything too big all ready.

A way the guys cheated on the 4 cyl. 2.3 Ford engines they used acid to eat the intake ports out larger, lol. Still has the rough cast look.

Is anything in the rules about altering the intake to have smaller ports? If you can run the Edlebrock Performer intake it has 4-V carb opening and 2-V head port sizes.

You need to make the clevo scream to make it's power unless you get the air flowing better on the low end.

That sucks to have such low compression. If you could pump that up would make way more HP.

I got a couple pictures of the intake I was talking about and it by a CC high compression head. Much smaller ports for sure. Good for low end torque. I picked that one up on one of my parts buying tours for $35.00. He put it on and crashed and totaled the car couple weeks later an M code Mach 1.

 

100_3000.jpg

 

100_3001.jpg

 

100_3002.jpg

 

100_3003.jpg

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I have a set of Australian heads, but I can't use them. The small combustion chamber would push me way past 9.5:1. The only intake I'm allowed to run is the Edlebrock performer. No modifications allowed. The next race I'm going to have 3 changes done to it.

 

1 Aluminium 1 Grove Front Engine Pulley (Much light and it's smaller to slow down the PS & Water pump).

2 New 5.69 rear end gears which will allow me to run in 3rd. Slowing down internals in the transmission and slowing down the drive shaft.

3 New right rear tire. I'm only allowed 1 tire a race. Right front was new last race.

 

The 28th is the last race of the year. My goals for the off season are to put the car on a diet of around 200lbs and rebuild and lighten a transmission. If anyone knows how to light a Ford 3.03 3 speed tranmssion, please let know!!!

 

Thanks for all the ideas, tips and tricks!!!!

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I have a set of Australian heads, but I can't use them.  The small combustion chamber would push me way past 9.5:1.  The only intake I'm allowed to run is the Edlebrock performer. No modifications allowed.  The next race I'm going to have 3 changes done to it.

 

1 Aluminium 1 Grove Front Engine Pulley (Much light and it's smaller to slow down the PS & Water pump).

2 New 5.69 rear end gears which will allow me to run in 3rd.  Slowing down internals in the transmission and slowing down the drive shaft.

3 New right rear tire.   I'm only allowed 1 tire a race. Right front was new last race.

 

The 28th is the last race of the year.  My goals for the off season are to put the car on a diet of around 200lbs and rebuild and lighten a transmission.  If anyone knows how to light a Ford 3.03 3 speed tranmssion, please let know!!!

 

Thanks for all the ideas, tips and tricks!!!!

Can you not get pistons dished to drop the compression?

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I guess I can use dished pistons and I have a brand new set already on rods. I didn't know the valves were bigger. I thought they were the same as the 2V head except for the combustion chamber.

 

Anyway, the motor I have is running strong and the 3/8th mile track I'm running at is going to require better cornering than motor at this point. That's where I'm going to find most of my time. Once I get the weight down and the car lowered, I'll think about upgrading the motor.

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I guess I can use dished pistons and I have a brand new set already on rods.  I didn't know the valves were bigger.  I thought they were the same as the 2V head except for the combustion chamber.

 

Anyway, the motor I have is running strong and the 3/8th mile track I'm running at is going to require better cornering than motor at this point.  That's where I'm going to find most of my time.  Once I get the weight down and the car lowered, I'll think about upgrading the motor.

 

I am not 100% on the valve size I was told they had the large valves with small ports. The smaller ports would help on the short track since you need the low end torque.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I am running Aussie 2V heads. I had them machined for the larger valves. Specs below in my signature. It is a beast.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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I am running Aussie 2V heads. I had them machined for the larger valves. Specs below in my signature. It is a beast.

 

What kind of pistons are you running?  Do you know what compression ratio you have?  Are you still running pump gas?  I can wait to try the set I have but it wont be on this race car.  I have an IMCA modified that I will someday use them for.  For now my motor is running strong.  I need to lighten everything and rebuild a transmission.

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I am running piston with a very small dish about 4cc. compression is around the 10.5 range. I can run pump gas (91 or 93 octane) with no issues. Occasionally I will mix in a little race gas which allows me to throw a little more timing at it, but just the reg pump gas it is a ton of fun.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

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