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Help with camshaft choice.


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OK guys. I have contemplated a stroker build and decided the stock stroke Cleveland will suffice. The engine will boast about 9.3:1 compression. I will use the factory 1973  small valve 4V heads with stainless valves, Crane stud adapter kit, and Comp Cams 1.73 roller rockers.  The block will get BHJ bronze lifter sleeves, Moroso oil restrictor kit, and a MPG windage tray. The engine will get either a FiTech or EZ EFI system on a Performer RPM or Blue Thunder intake. The transmission will be an AOD with 2200-2500 stall. The rear gears will be 3.50-3.70:1. The camshafts I am currently looking at are the Howards Street Force 2 or the Lunati 10320702 Voo Doo. I am kind of leaning towards the Voo Doo with the added lift and duration.

 

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Howards Cams, Street Force™ Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft, Ford 351C/M 400

Ford Cleveland/M 351C-351M-400

Cam Series: Street Force™

Advertised Duration: 269/279

Duration @ .050": 215/225

Valve Lift w/1.73 Rockers: .513/.536

Lobe Separation Angle: 112

Intake Centerline: 106

Valve Lash: Hyd./Hyd.

1600-5400. Street Force™ 2, good idle & throttle response, needs 4 barrel & good exhaust.

 

Voodoo Hyd Cam - Ford 351C-400M 262/268

#10320702

Previous Part #62502

Hydraulic. Torque Master for 351C with 4BBL heads on daily driven street performance vehicle. Good torque and horsepower production with heavier emphasis on the lower mid thru upper RPM ranges. Use 3.55 rear gears. Choppy idle!

  • Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .540/.552
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1800-5800

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The FI units require cams with certain characteristics to run well-I would start by contacting them and the cam makers to try and optimize your cam choice.

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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Have you checked where the cams you're looking at will put your dynamic compression ratio? This should be one of the things you consider.

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-engine-and-compression-calculations

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Just as an aside, I ran a Federal Mogul cam in one of my stock rebuild 4V Clevelands that was nearly identical in specs to the Howard cam you listed. It was a very street friendly cam that tolerated everything from a 3.00 to 3.91 rear gear. It pulled down 18mpg hiway with the 3.00 gear, toploader and an 800DP. I had that engine in four different cars and it always did very well. The only time it was not happy was when I blew the C-6 in my 70 Torino GT to bits and had to put a stock low stall converter into it. Not. Happy. This was back in the day when I daily drove my musclecars from just after the last snow, to the first snow.

 

Only "issue" I had was I accidentally used stock hydraulic lifters and they would pump up and kill the power at about 6k.

 

IMO, I'd run the 3.70 or maybe even more with the AOD. With a .67 OD, your cruise is going to drop a lot, down into the 2000 rpm area, which I am not certain a 4V engine is going to like, especially if you go with the larger cam.

 

 

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Just as an aside, I ran a Federal Mogul cam in one of my stock rebuild 4V Clevelands that was nearly identical in specs to the Howard cam you listed. It was a very street friendly cam that tolerated everything from a 3.00 to 3.91 rear gear. It pulled down 18mpg hiway with the 3.00 gear, toploader and an 800DP. I had that engine in four different cars and it always did very well. The only time it was not happy was when I blew the C-6 in my 70 Torino GT to bits and had to put a stock low stall converter into it. Not. Happy. This was back in the day when I daily drove my musclecars from just after the last snow, to the first snow.

 

Only "issue" I had was I accidentally used stock hydraulic lifters and they would pump up and kill the power at about 6k.

 

IMO, I'd run the 3.70 or maybe even more with the AOD. With a .67 OD, your cruise is going to drop a lot, down into the 2000 rpm area, which I am not certain a 4V engine is going to like, especially if you go with the larger cam.

 

Would a 3.90 be better? I am swapping in the new AODE gear set (4R70W/AOD Conversion) so the gearing will be a little different. Overdrive I think will be the same though.

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Have you considered a custom grind? This is my thinking for picking a hydraulic cam find the one you think is right then go 1 bigger in the same catalog. This usually puts you where you want to be power wise. Just my 2 cents worth. I personally would rather have it slightly rowdier than feel like its not what it should be.

He has all the vices I admire and none of the virtues I despise

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Have you considered  a custom grind? This is my thinking for picking a hydraulic cam find the one you think is right then go 1 bigger in the same catalog. This usually puts you where you want to be power wise. Just my 2 cents worth. I personally would rather have it slightly rowdier than feel like its not what it should be.

 

Thank you for your suggestion. I will take it under consideration. I probably needed to mention to everyone that this build is for my 14 year old son. Yep, it is going to be his first vehicle. So if it seems like I am going pretty tame it is because i am. I know these Cleveland's make huge power. Later if he wants to explore that I welcome it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just my .02, Of those two choices the smaller Howard is the better for a street car,in both lift at the valve, and duration @.050". The Howard grind should also have more bottom end grunt at 106, over the Voodoo. Of ALL the things done by enthusiasts to hop-up their engines, over-camming is the NUMBER ONE silly thing that people do. We all picture our cars as lumpy idling , nasty , mean, even scary machines that everyone will idolize us for being able to tame.....It's a machismo thing.

I have some experience here....I've done it too, when I was younger. Now, as it so turns out, I build engines for a living, and have learned by my mistakes and other peoples mistakes. Here now, is a very simple way to look pragmatically ( realisticly ) at the issue......You can always "enhance" the breathing characteristics of a cam of smaller "events" with better intake manifolding, headers, head work............BUT trying to make a cam that's too big for the street, street-friendly, takes choking it down and the engine will never fully run right, let alone you'll probably kill off a bunch of bottom end and vacuum to adequately power those power brakes. Just like tuning on the dyno, the key is to give the engine what it likes, not what you want to give it.

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