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New camshaft time! 377 in Cleveland with CHI 2V heads. IT RUNS! Video on page 2


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BFE508_EC_7_CEA_44_D4_8_C69_C66_CA13588_F7.jpg

 

Long story short I need a new cam and lifters.

 

Engine is a stroked 351C (377 now) with CHI 2V heads (60-66cc chamber depending on where the numbers come from)

 

Static compression with .040 head gaskets is just about 11:1 dead on.

 

Cam that was in it was a Crower 15244

 

I want a hydraulic flat tappet setup that is similar (if not identical). Going over .550 lift does not really gain me anything with the CHI heads.  The engine made 425/425 with the 15244, while it was eating a couple lifters.  Some level of vacuum for a brake booster is needed.

 

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-238041-09

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/isk-431281

 

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7168

 

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-10320703

 

 

Ideas?

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Just curious why you want to go with flat tappets, again, after your experience with the last flat tappets cam?

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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What are you going to use for fuel? Did you like the old cam? What oil are you using? Chuck

 

I’d like to run pump gas...  might reduce static compression with thicker head gaskets if needed.

 

Unknown on the oil, a couple of the lifters died on the the dyno, and I didn’t find out until this past week.

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Just curious why you want to go with flat tappets, again, after your experience with the last flat tappets cam?

 

I am happy in the 415-450 horse range.

 

Also seems like several folks have had roller lifter failure, which does not inspire confidence.  Between this forum and Mustang steve’s site there have been a few comp roller lifter failures.  Flat tappet is simpler if I can get them to break in without death.  All that being said, I am no expert.

 

The outfit that built the engine up for me isn’t really around anymore.  They chose some pretty heavy valve springs with a closed pressure of 124 or 129 pounds (can’t decipher the hand writing.  Open pressure was 365.  I do not know if they just ran the outer springs for cam break in, or what combo of lube they used.  All I know is that 2 lifters are on the highway to doom,

 

I am taking those valve springs and tossing them in the trash.

 

Going with some beehives that are about 110 closed and 336 at .575.

 

 

I need to get on something that allows me to use your dynamic compression calc (my phone won’t work). Then go ahead and order up whatever cam / lifter / head gasket combo that will get me where I can squeak by on pump gas

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Sorry to hear it died on the dyno, I know what that feels like. One indicator that cam and lifter break-in will go well is to index the top edge of the lifter and the lifter bore with a Sharpie, assemble the valve train and turn the engine over by hand several times to see if all the lifters are rotating. If they are it is a good sign, if not it doesn't bode well. An EDM oiling hole in the lifter is said by many to reduce wear. The Driven or Schneider assembly grease works well. The Maxima break-in oil also works well, as do several others. 11:1, pump gas, and mid-range cam could be a real problem. Whatever you decide to go with, I hope all goes smoothly. Chuck

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I dug up the ancient IBM laptop and got Dons calc on it.

 

So, with .040 head gaskets my static is 11.08:1 with flat pistons, mine actually have reliefs in them so I need to measure  the volume and correct my static.

 

Using Dons calc my dynamic with the Crower 15244 works out to 8.4:1

Edelbrock 7168 7.45:1

 

 

 

 

More info...

2_E41932_A_46_D6_4_BA9_8_C7_C_34_E8_C58_FB735.jpg

 

C27_DE959_3_EB0_42_DE_A3_AE_E0_DD4_DBC518_E.jpg

 

21801_DFE_57_D5_4_F53_BB87_74_FDBA623_B06.jpg

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I believe that 2 reliefs are in the 15cc range.

 

8.4:1 puts you into the pump gas range, especially with aluminum heads.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Took it the rest of the way down today, and confirmed some numbers.

 

Think I am going to go with this, a little more conservative than what I had, but still keeps me in the pump gas dynamic compression range.

 

Howards.

 

Stock #: MC230041-12DL

UPC #: 840793148097

Camshaft Series: Max Certified

Camshaft Type: Hydraulic Flat Tappet

Duration Exhaust: 289

Duration Intake: 279

Duration at 050 Exhaust: 235

Duration at 050 Intake: 225

Engine: 351C, 351M, 400

Firing Order: 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

Intake Centerline: 108

Lobe Separation: 112

Engine Manufacturer: Ford

RPM Range: 2400 to 6400

Valve Lift Exhaust: .542

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Hi

 

Im running this cam with 2v Chi heads(65cc) and AIRgap intake. Sniper EFi . With flat pistons compression is 10.1

 

Camshaft Type: Hydraulic Flat Tappet

Duration Exhaust: 281

Duration Intake: 281

Duration at 050 Exhaust: 227

Duration at 050 Intake: 227

Engine: 351C, 351M, 400

Firing Order: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

Intake Centerline: 104

Lobe Separation: 108

Engine Manufacturer: Ford

RPM Range: 2400 to 6000

Valve Lift Exhaust: .542

For knowing your limit you have to pass it ::thumb::

 

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I think you should consider a custom cam from one of the well known builders that have real experience with clevelands like Dave McClain, Brent Lykins, or Randy Malik to name a few. There is so much more to a cam than lift and duration @ .050.

73 conv. 460, D0VE large valve heads, Performer RPM manifold, Voodoo 227/233 cam, Holley 950 HP carb, C6 trans, 3.25 trak-loc.

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  • 3 weeks later...

rollers are fine as long as you use good ones. comp cams lifters have been crap for at least 20 years. i use morel roller lifters. both lunati and howards sells one style of morels under their own name and the lunato ines are a little less unless you get them from colorado speed.

 

i would get a custom cam as was suggested but i would only use chris straub.

 

http://www.straubtechnologies.com/

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Cam decision is locked down.

I bought the Howards flat tappet MC230041-12DL kit.

 

Had to go with .062" thick Cometic head gaskets to squeak me into the pump gas range at 10.95:1 static, about 8.5:1 dynamic.

 

Appreciate the info from everyone, if I ever get a money tree I will build up an aluminum block Clevor and go no holds barred on that build.

 

In a few weeks I should have it back on the engine stand to break in the cam and see what happens.

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Cam decision is locked down.

I bought the Howards flat tappet MC230041-12DL kit.

 

Had to go with .062" thick Cometic head gaskets to squeak me into the pump gas range at 10.95:1 static, about 8.5:1 dynamic.

 

Appreciate the info from everyone, if I ever get a money tree I will build up an aluminum block Clevor and go no holds barred on that build.

 

In a few weeks I should have it back on the engine stand to break in the cam and see what happens.

 

i hope you bought crane anti pump lifter or crower cool face lifters also.

 

you would not have had to use $200.00 head gaskets is you had a custom cam made.

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Cam decision is locked down.

I bought the Howards flat tappet MC230041-12DL kit.

 

Had to go with .062" thick Cometic head gaskets to squeak me into the pump gas range at 10.95:1 static, about 8.5:1 dynamic.

 

Appreciate the info from everyone, if I ever get a money tree I will build up an aluminum block Clevor and go no holds barred on that build.

 

In a few weeks I should have it back on the engine stand to break in the cam and see what happens.

 

i hope you bought crane anti pump lifter or crower cool face lifters also.

 

you would not have had to use $200.00 head gaskets is you had a custom cam made.

 

Rocking mystery Howards lifters that came with the kit.  

I don’t have a Delorean with a flux capacitor otherwise I might have gone with something different.

 

The head gasket I am not sure I would have got around.  With a standard .040” gasket my static was 11.57:1.  I don’t think the most gifted cam grinder in the world with deep black art knowledge would have been able to come up with a flat tappet magic grind that would get the dynamic compression ratio low enough for premium pump gas, and give me enough vacuum for power brakes, with some level of streetability with a stock head gasket.  That being said I never called any of them and asked.

 

I know the Gaskets are spendy, but running a MLS gasket with the aluminum heads seems like a good investment.

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Honestly I don’t know what brand they were.

 

Scratch that!

 

Found the invoice.  Lifters were Comp brand

 

those lifters are complete junk and may also prematurely wear your cam. probably the worst lifters i have ever seen and i am a comp cams dealer.

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  • 1 month later...

[video=youtube]

 

 

Let there be life!

 

Finally got it together.  10.95:1 static, running on the stand with premium pump gas with octane booster.  

 

This is the Cleveland with that flat tappet setup from Howards.  MC230041-12DL

 

 

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Hello,

I'll jump in here, your cam and set up is very stout.

Im not a fan of roller lifters, too many friends have flat spotted the roller and broken needle bearings that wipe out the cam lobes.

With high lift #'s watch your valve spring compression and clearances, and dual springs is worse.

 

I've had alot of success with less lift and more duration and lobe separation.

Lobe separation 108 - 114*

112* and above = Driveability better low end torque

108* and below = Rough idle and increase cylinder pressure

 

I hope this may help with a cam selection.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Oh Man!!

             I watched the video.....and the oil pressure reading on the guage, or lack thereof, was freaking me out! if I could only have ONE guage in a race car, I'd want to know what my oil pressure is at all times. Was it just not connected in the video, and why?

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Oh Man!!

             I watched the video.....and the oil pressure reading on the guage, or lack thereof, was freaking me out! if I could only have ONE guage in a race car, I'd want to know what my oil pressure is at all times. Was it just not connected in the video, and why?

 

I should have covered the gauge with tape or something, the Bosch gauges were not the best, and we had a nice Mac manual oil pressure gauge hanging off the side of the stand out of view.  There was plenty of oil pressure (70 cold idle), and a gauge, it just wasn't in view.

 

 

 

oil_pressure.jpg

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