Wrong keys?

crzyfun · Jul 8, 2018

Greetings!

Brand new owner here... just bought a '72 vert mach 1... in a word (or two): Crazy. Fun!

I have an immediate problem that I'd love some advice on.

I bought it from a used car dealership, that got it from a dealer auction that got it from a dealer auction that got it from a previous owner years ago. The two keys they handed me "work" but when put into the ignition, it's hard to turn. And in fact, last night, I couldn't turn it back to "lock" to remove the key. So it's stuck. I tried it pretty forcefully but didn't want to break it.

I had to disconnect the battery or it would have drained. :-(

The other interesting fact is that the keys won't open the trunk or unlock the doors. The "S" shape of the trunk lock (like two vertical bars slightly offset) is exactly opposite of the keys. So they won't go in (think trying to put a key shaped like an F into a lock shaped like an L... if you flip the key, it's still off).

So the fact that (a) the keys won't fit into the trunk lock, and (b) they only kind-of fit in the ignition, and © I can't (now) turn the ignition back to lock to remove the key...

all that makes me think these are simply the wrong keys.

Has anyone else experienced something like this?

Any advice on what to do?

(both how to rectify the immediate issue: can't turn the ignition back to lock to remove the key, and how to solve this long term... i.e. get actual working keys).

Thanks,

Dan

Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs · Jul 8, 2018

The trunk key is different on a Ford. It has a round head and yes cut opposite than ignition. The ignition key should fit the door locks but someone probably change the ignition switch. Try wiggling the steering wheel and the shifter to get the key out. You can remove the locks and take to lock smith and get the door and ignition changed to match. You will have to pick the trunk lock to get it open.

Even though the key has notches on both sides only one side hits the tumblers. It was two sided so you could never turn it the wrong way.

To remove the ignition switch do a search of the forum or look for youtube video. You have to have the key in and there is a hole to insert a pin into to release the lock cylinder. You will have to take the door panels off to get the door locks out. You might come out cheaper to look on ebay for a new set of matching ignition and door locks.

David

Mach_One · Jul 8, 2018

Keys can wear to the point that they don't work anymore. I'd replace all the locks on the car and be done with it.

OMS · Jul 8, 2018

Also these cars have a column lock out rod that prevents the key from being removed if not in park for emergency shut off situations.

If the rod is missing or mis-adjusted it will cause issues with key removal.

Search the forum here as there are some detailed explanations on it

Bru · Jul 8, 2018

The trunk key is different on a Ford. It has a round head and yes cut opposite than ignition. The ignition key should fit the door locks but someone probably change the ignition switch. Try wiggling the steering wheel and the shifter to get the key out. You can remove the locks and take to lock smith and get the door and ignition changed to match. You will have to pick the trunk lock to get it open.

Even though the key has notches on both sides only one side hits the tumblers. It was two sided so you could never turn it the wrong way.

To remove the ignition switch do a search of the forum or look for youtube video. You have to have the key in and there is a hole to insert a pin into to release the lock cylinder. You will have to take the door panels off to get the door locks out. You might come out cheaper to look on ebay for a new set of matching ignition and door locks.

David

"round head and yes cut opposite than ignition" ???

The "cut opposite" I don't get.

I doubled cut one key to fit all locks.

Bru · Jul 8, 2018

The trunk key is different on a Ford. It has a round head and yes cut opposite than ignition. The ignition key should fit the door locks but someone probably change the ignition switch. Try wiggling the steering wheel and the shifter to get the key out. You can remove the locks and take to lock smith and get the door and ignition changed to match. You will have to pick the trunk lock to get it open.

Even though the key has notches on both sides only one side hits the tumblers. It was two sided so you could never turn it the wrong way.

To remove the ignition switch do a search of the forum or look for youtube video. You have to have the key in and there is a hole to insert a pin into to release the lock cylinder. You will have to take the door panels off to get the door locks out. You might come out cheaper to look on ebay for a new set of matching ignition and door locks.

David

Click to expand...

"round head and yes cut opposite than ignition" ???

The "cut opposite" I don't get.

I doubled cut one key to fit all locks.

Sorry, I should have explained what I ment by double cut.

One side of key will fit the ignition and the other side will fit the trunk.

I mark the key so I know which side is which as to not shear the tumbler pins

Hemikiller · Jul 8, 2018

Welcome!

Agree with the above and simply replace all the locks. Personally, I'd stick it to the dealership and make them take care of it, as they sold you a car with keys that don't match - unless you bought it as-is. Don't know the Colorado used car laws.

Since I didn't see anyone mention it , you can't buy a 72 vert Mach 1. You can buy a 72 vert, or a 72 Mach 1. You CAN buy a 72 vert that someone stuck a bunch of Mach 1 stickers and stripes on...

Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs · Jul 8, 2018

The trunk key is different on a Ford. It has a round head and yes cut opposite than ignition. The ignition key should fit the door locks but someone probably change the ignition switch. Try wiggling the steering wheel and the shifter to get the key out. You can remove the locks and take to lock smith and get the door and ignition changed to match. You will have to pick the trunk lock to get it open.

Even though the key has notches on both sides only one side hits the tumblers. It was two sided so you could never turn it the wrong way.

To remove the ignition switch do a search of the forum or look for youtube video. You have to have the key in and there is a hole to insert a pin into to release the lock cylinder. You will have to take the door panels off to get the door locks out. You might come out cheaper to look on ebay for a new set of matching ignition and door locks.

David

Click to expand...

"round head and yes cut opposite than ignition" ???

The "cut opposite" I don't get.

I doubled cut one key to fit all locks.

Sorry, I should have explained what I ment by double cut.

One side of key will fit the ignition and the other side will fit the trunk.

I mark the key so I know which side is which as to not shear the tumbler pins

Click to expand...

I have to say "That dog won't hunt". You cannot put the ignition key in the trunk lock or the trunk in the ignition. If you point an ignition key toward you the way it enters the lock the ignition key had the teeth on the top left and bottom right. If you point the trunk key toward you the teeth are on the top right and bottom left. There is not way to use one key for both trunk and ignition. They are symmetrically opposite for a reason.

I have several ignition keys cut to fit two different locks one way fits the ignition the other the door and the trunk key for my original 73 Mach 1 has the cut to open the trunk on one side the the cut to open the spare tire lock on the other.

You can cut one key to fit two different cars on one key but not trunk and ignition.

I was casting engineer at lock company also. The cycle time on a Dyacast casting machine with 5 slides is only 2 to 3 seconds. Hurd lock actually made Fords locks back when our cars were made I do not know who does now. They were cast in multiple cavity molds and then trimmed off. The tolerances for locks and components are very tight usually +/- .001 INCH.

I cannot find my camera to take pics of double cut keys for two different locks or trunk and ignition but we all have a set, lol. I have too many sets.

David

Don C · Jul 8, 2018

Bru

Sorry, I should have explained what I ment by double cut.

One side of key will fit the ignition and the other side will fit the trunk.

I mark the key so I know which side is which as to not shear the tumbler pins

Curious how you did it, the angle offset on my trunk lock and key is opposite of the angle offset of my ignition/door locks and key, so my ignition key physically will not fit in the trunk lock.

crzyfun · Jul 9, 2018

Welcome!

Agree with the above and simply replace all the locks. Personally, I'd stick it to the dealership and make them take care of it, as they sold you a car with keys that don't match - unless you bought it as-is. Don't know the Colorado used car laws.

Since I didn't see anyone mention it , you can't buy a 72 vert Mach 1. You can buy a 72 vert, or a 72 Mach 1. You CAN buy a 72 vert that someone stuck a bunch of Mach 1 stickers and stripes on...

Yeah, I guess that's what happened here. It definitely says Mach 1 and it's definitely a vert.

Good to know. We'll probably repaint it and restripe/sticker it at some point. I'd rather it be accurate so I'll leave off the Mach 1 part.

Bru · Jul 10, 2018

Bru

Sorry, I should have explained what I ment by double cut.

One side of key will fit the ignition and the other side will fit the trunk.

I mark the key so I know which side is which as to not shear the tumbler pins

Curious how you did it, the angle offset on my trunk lock and key is opposite of the angle offset of my ignition/door locks and key, so my ignition key physically will not fit in the trunk lock.

Now you have me wondering if I changed the trunk lock back in my 'for gotten days'

But I do have a double cut key that starts the car and opens the trunk. I'm in Nevada golfing for the next week , but will take a pictures when I get back

.

David,

Thank you for all the info..... is there anything you haven't done? :angel:

crzyfun · Jul 10, 2018

Keys can wear to the point that they don't work anymore. I'd replace all the locks on the car and be done with it.

Yeah, I think that's what's happened. I took it out for a short drive again and when I got back I could turn the ignition back to Lock and pull the key. So I think it's just worn.

I'll need to replace anyway since I don't have the trunk key.

Time to go ebay/parts shopping. :-D

-Dan

Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs · Jul 11, 2018

Bru

Sorry, I should have explained what I ment by double cut.

One side of key will fit the ignition and the other side will fit the trunk.

I mark the key so I know which side is which as to not shear the tumbler pins

Curious how you did it, the angle offset on my trunk lock and key is opposite of the angle offset of my ignition/door locks and key, so my ignition key physically will not fit in the trunk lock.

Click to expand...

Mustang Data

Now you have me wondering if I changed the trunk lock back in my 'for gotten days'

But I do have a double cut key that starts the car and opens the trunk. I'm in Nevada golfing for the next week , but will take a pictures when I get back

.

David,

Thank you for all the info..... is there anything you haven't done? :angel:

LOL, when you work in tooling you never know what the next job will be a lawn mower part or a sun roof for a BMW. That is why I loved it but the years just flew by.

David

crzyfun · Jul 14, 2018

The trunk key is different on a Ford. It has a round head and yes cut opposite than ignition. The ignition key should fit the door locks but someone probably change the ignition switch. Try wiggling the steering wheel and the shifter to get the key out. You can remove the locks and take to lock smith and get the door and ignition changed to match. You will have to pick the trunk lock to get it open.

Even though the key has notches on both sides only one side hits the tumblers. It was two sided so you could never turn it the wrong way.

To remove the ignition switch do a search of the forum or look for youtube video. You have to have the key in and there is a hole to insert a pin into to release the lock cylinder. You will have to take the door panels off to get the door locks out. You might come out cheaper to look on ebay for a new set of matching ignition and door locks.

David

David (or anyone else)

Any advice on picking the trunk lock?

I basically cleared the excess metal (see picture) so I can see where the key goes and the tumblers on the top. I'm not sure what to try next. I tried a few different flat-head screwdrivers but that didn't work. I'm sure it's because it won't turn with either all tumblers down or all up.

I suppose a call to a locksmith would do it but I'm curious if anyone has any other suggestions I could try.

Thanks!

-Dan

Don C · Jul 14, 2018

Drill it out with about a 1/4" bit, the tumblers should fall out. If not, go a little larger.

Hemikiller · Jul 14, 2018

Drill it out with about a 1/4" bit, the tumblers should fall out. If not, go a little larger.

Yup - keep going.

Don C · Jul 15, 2018

Just don't drill too deep, if the lever and rod fall off the end of the lock you'll be up the creek. Drill only the depth of the key.

rvrtrash · Jul 15, 2018

Or what you could do is remove the rear seat base, then the back, and reach through with a large flat blade screwdriver and activate the lock from the back side.

Steve

Carolina_Mountain_Mustangs · Jul 15, 2018

You can purchase a pretty good lock pic set for less than $20.00. Some states not legal to own, lol. I have a set of course, lol. It come with some L shaped spring steel pieces and the picks that you pull across the tumblers while you keep a rotating force on the lock. As each tumbler gets hooked the plug in the lock rotates a little more. Some go easy and quick some not so quick. You can order clear locks of different types to practice on. If changing you might as well drill it.

I think with the older GM cars you only needed like 7 master keys to open any car they made. They were not very good locks at all.

David

Wrong keys?

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