3D printers

7173Mustangs.com

Help Support 7173Mustangs.com:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
1,389
Reaction score
4
Location
England
My Car
1971 Mustang Grande
With the introduction of 3D printers unavailable plastic parts should soon be widely available. All thats requied is a C.A.D designer and a original part. There are also some reproduction parts out there that are not fir for purpose so those parts makers could be challenged in their production.

Are there any plastic parts that are not reproduced or badly reproduced that people need?

 
From another forum, a person attempted the 3 pin door jamb connector, but had lots of problems with it; the final product didn't pass muster as the 3 pin switch wouldn't mate well.

 
Like they say, garbage in, garbage out.

It's going to depend on the quality of the scanner and printer, plus the software and the person editing the scans.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok guys, I've worked with what has become known as 3D Printing for years, like from the mid 80's. It was then known as Stereo Lithography and yes, the process has come a LOOOONGG way since then. Originally we could only make small parts that were more for "look-see" rather than actual working parts. I still made prototype air cleaner and related parts by vacuum forming right up till about 10 years ago when usable "3D printed" parts were becoming available and at cheaper pricing. I could still cut a weld most of these pieces when quick changes were needed. What really got interesting was we could now "print" a complete air induction manifold that usually only needed minor touch up to be fully functional. Before it entailed building a temporary injection mold costing many tens of thousands of dollars. Even then those "printed" manifolds would cost anywhere around 10 grand a piece. These were made from a Nylon based material and were very strong and withstood all the testing required to verify for production.

Yes it's a great tool, but it is NOT in my opinion a replacement for injection molded parts good enough for our cars. Problem is, these "printed" parts are built up in layers. The thinner the layer, the better the quality, but that brings a higher price tag as it take way longer to "print". As I said, this technique has come a long way in the last 10 years and will continue to evolve and someday it may make very satisfactory parts, but not yet.

Geoff.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So, being an engineer, I have one part I want to get a 3-d model of and try to print with a Nylon or ultem material.

What is it?  The power window bezel clip.  Originally made of stamped steel, this part could easily be printed and function properly.

I do have a pair of clips, but have lost my modeling skills after taking on management roles.  

kcmash

 
Ok guys, I've worked with what has become known as 3D Printing for years, like from the mid 80's. It was then known as Stereo Lithography and yes, the process has come a LOOOONGG way since then. Originally we could only make small parts that were more for "look-see" rather than actual working parts. I still made prototype air cleaner and related parts by vacuum forming right up till about 10 years ago when usable "3D printed" parts were becoming available and at cheaper pricing. I could still cut a weld most of these pieces when quick changes were needed. What really got interesting was we could now "print" a complete air induction manifold that usually only needed minor touch up to be fully functional. Before it entailed building a temporary injection mold costing many tens of thousands of dollars. Even then those "printed" manifolds would cost anywhere around 10 grand a piece. These were made from a Nylon based material and were very strong and withstood all the testing required to verify for production.

Yes it's a great tool, but it is NOT in my opinion a replacement for injection molded parts good enough for our cars. Problem is, these "printed" parts are built up in layers. The thinner the layer, the better the quality, but that brings a higher price tag as it take way longer to "print". As I said, this technique has come a long way in the last 10 years and will continue to evolve and someday it may make very satisfactory parts, but not yet.

Geoff.
Well said. Appreciate your candid point-of-view.  Confirms my understandings as well.

Ray

 
I also worked in the tooling world for most of my life. I have never really seen a 3-D printed part that could come near what  molded part is. Lots of molded parts had strands of fibers mixed in to reinforce and link the part together. With the printed parts is is like stacking sheets of paper together and gluing them. There is no real link between the layers like molded parts have.

The printers are great for proof of concept and for prototypes to be held looked at and be a visual thing. The printed parts can be used as cores to produce castings if the correct materials are used.

They use the printers in dental work a lot now but only to make the molds to produce the permanent dental repair.

The power window clips in question would be pretty much impossible to do in the plastic materials. The parts have to be too thin to have any structure. You still need the springs steel for them to function and fit into the assembly.

I was working with John Deere on producing a Steel hood to replace their plastic hoods on their huge tractors. The exhaust has to be so hot to burn off the pollutants that it was melting the plastic hoods. I wanted to get a scale model printed for a presentation of concept. They could not do it because when you have a steel part say .5 mm thick and you scale it down there could not print it that thin and it work.

Maybe someday they will come up with something for materials that will solve the current issues.

Hey look at the new Densified wood that the University of Maryland came up with. Stronger than steel and even stronger than carbon fiber and yes it is wood. Sounds like science fiction but so does anything new. I can see it now a roll cage in a race car made from wood that is stronger than steel and lighter, lol.

When you reverse engineer parts you have the issue of not having a true basis for a perfect part. Our cars were just before CAD came into play so were still blue prints. Even if you have a NOS part you do not have the fixture to hold it in perfect shape to do a laser scan to produce a solid model from. The costs go up really fast for sure. In a shop the highest machine rates are for CMM and laser scan work. CNC mills are cheaper by the hour.

D

 
So, being an engineer, I have one part I want to get a 3-d model of and try to print with a Nylon or ultem material.

What is it?  The power window bezel clip.  Originally made of stamped steel, this part could easily be printed and function properly.

I do have a pair of clips, but have lost my modeling skills after taking on management roles.  

kcmash
No better time to brush up on them. AutoCAD offers Fusion360 for free. There's also Onshape if you're more Solidworks oriented.

 
Talking about 3D printers, a local company wanted to hire my younger son to troubleshoot their printer. He's a programmer and used to work for DOD, and wanted me to help him with the electro-mechanical side of it. However, when we checked into it more the problems were all mechanical, so we declined. We would have needed heavy duty equipment, it prints modular housing sections that they ship overseas, works like a gunite robot from a central pivot.

 
Well today while at "work", yes my old boss dragged me out of retirement to run a CNC mill for a few days, an engineer from the company I used to do the prototyping for, called to ask If I was available to revise up to 30 parts that are made in PA6 Nylon thinking I could vacuum form the insert I would have to weld in. Well vacuum forming nylon is not easy, so guess what I suggested. You got it, 3D print the parts in nylon and it looks like that is what they'll do. All I have to do is cut out and insert the printed part and hand weld it and hope for the best!!

Geoff.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I also worked in the tooling world for most of my life. I have never really seen a 3-D printed part that could come near what  molded part is. Lots of molded parts had strands of fibers mixed in to reinforce and link the part together. With the printed parts is is like stacking sheets of paper together and gluing them. There is no real link between the layers like molded parts have.

The printers are great for proof of concept and for prototypes to be held looked at and be a visual thing. The printed parts can be used as cores to produce castings if the correct materials are used.

They use the printers in dental work a lot now but only to make the molds to produce the permanent dental repair.

The power window clips in question would be pretty much impossible to do in the plastic materials. The parts have to be too thin to have any structure. You still need the springs steel for them to function and fit into the assembly.

I was working with John Deere on producing a Steel hood to replace their plastic hoods on their huge tractors. The exhaust has to be so hot to burn off the pollutants that it was melting the plastic hoods. I wanted to get a scale model printed for a presentation of concept. They could not do it because when you have a steel part say .5 mm thick and you scale it down there could not print it that thin and it work.

Maybe someday they will come up with something for materials that will solve the current issues.

Hey look at the new Densified wood that the University of Maryland came up with. Stronger than steel and even stronger than carbon fiber and yes it is wood. Sounds like science fiction but so does anything new. I can see it now a roll cage in a race car made from wood that is stronger than steel and lighter, lol.

When you reverse engineer parts you have the issue of not having a true basis for a perfect part. Our cars were just before CAD came into play so were still blue prints. Even if you have a NOS part you do not have the fixture to hold it in perfect shape to do a laser scan to produce a solid model from. The costs go up really fast for sure. In a shop the highest machine rates are for CMM and laser scan work. CNC mills are cheaper by the hour.

D
 Good comments David.

I think that most people hearing about this relatively new technique of 3D printing get the impression it's the be-all and end-all of modern processes, a fix all if you like, but it's not quite there yet.

 
Can we get 3D printed Benjamins? That would help all of us fund out projects!

 
One thing that could maybe help is to 3-D print the tool to make the part. You will have to add in the mold shrinkage. I do not know how much shot a 3-D printed mold could take either or how many parts you would get. Maybe do rotary mold so not pressure involved but not a super strong part either. Could maybe put some glass fiber in the mix to help strength.

Again holding your NOS part in the correct shape would be the key to getting correct laser scan. You would think Ford would have an archive of data and prints of past vehicles. But they are not a restoration shop so why bother to keep them.

A friend of mine that owns a tool & die shop use to make the quarter panels for Richard Petty racing. The tool was made from epoxy base. Pretty much all prototype dies in automotive are made from Kirksite Zinc. You can cast to size if you have a 1 mm tolerance or CNC cut after casting to get closer. Can be welded and repaired. Have seen several hundred parts come from those tools.

 
Back
Top