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Blackout hood paint


jpaz
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I cannot tell you but I see very few painted to look correct. The black out for sure has a texture to it same with the spoiler, the places beside the tail lights and if a 73 around the front marker lights and the marker lights. On all cars the bottom rear of the hood go the flat black to hide the area, see yellow hood. I do not have a really good macro lens so I cannot get a great close up of my original. I stayed away from the black when I waxed the car for sure.

Both of these cars are Factory paint. The yellow has the Decor Group so bottom half is black. They missed a big place on one side on the quarter panel but was down low. It also has big runs in it and is a vert.

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When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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69-70 had a slight texture to the paint, 71-73 did not. The color of the paint is simply black, nothing special.

 

an excellent source for detailing info is the 429 Megasite

 

http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/paint_info.htm

 

Halfway down is the pre-flattened clear used over a black base coat. Adding a flattening agent to regular clear often dries to a milky look. If using a single stage paint, I've had good success with the "eggshell" recipe.

 

As David noted, be very careful about the hood blackout shape. Lots of bad info out there and most get it wrong. The Mustang Monthly template article was totally incorrect. David has two original paint cars and can supply you with the correct shape.

 

 

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Ok thanks guys for more great info. I was wondering more about the color and texture than the shape. Mine was wrong when I bought it, knew as soon as I looked at it. The color was wrong too cause it was gloss black, not semi gloss like it should be.

I’m going to make sure it’s correct cause the way my hood was really bugged me. I have always wanted to put it back to the semi black and I just want it to look right.

The shop that’s doing the work on my car has a really sharp looking 69 Mach1 on their website, but the blackout on the hood looks like it has more texture than our cars have. I don’t think I have to worry about the shape of the blackout cause the owner has an original unrestored 71 429 Mach1. He said he has the perfect formula for the blackout paint, but said it can’t be waxed and to use pledge on to take care of it. I’ve heard of that before but that’s old school, isn’t it?

Anyway I’m going to go there to see his place and a sample of the blackout paint before that gets done. I do plan on showing him the hood paint on the 429 mega site. Not sure if he knows about that, but I really do love that site. Have used it many times to get the details for my car correct. I really do like the sample of the hood on there.

John - 72 Q Code

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I suggest SEM Hot Rod Black  and if you wish, a coat of SEM Hot Rod Clear  over it as long as your painter doesn't get too much build-up or there will be quite a 'step' between the black-out and body color on the hood.

The color and sheen are in my humble opinion, perfect and hard wearing. I even use Mother's quick detailer on my hood without ANY ill effects to the sheen. i.e. it does not change the look of the finish. I found that out by mistake when I spilled some on the hood and was surprised I hadn't F'd it up.

If you're doing a concours job, you can still buy PPG 9381 Black from your local PPG supplier...……. or at least in Canada I can!

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I suggest SEM Hot Rod Black  and if you wish, a coat of SEM Hot Rod Clear  over it as long as your painter doesn't get too much build-up or there will be quite a 'step' between the black-out and body color on the hood.

The color and sheen are in my humble opinion, perfect and hard wearing. I even use Mother's quick detailer on my hood without ANY ill effects to the sheen. i.e. it does not change the look of the finish. I found that out by mistake when I spilled some on the hood and was surprised I hadn't F'd it up.

If you're doing a concours job, you can still buy PPG 9381 Black from your local PPG supplier...……. or at least in Canada I can!

Geoff.

Thanks Geoff, I did mention that to him from reading your thread about it. But he said he did have the correct formula for it. I’m going to find out exactly what that is before any painting is done. And I do need to get my ass there ASAP, just so busy with work right now.

I will definitely check out all options beforehand, cause I want it to be easy to take care of. My car is a driver and that’s what I want. Even though when I get it back I’m going to be afraid to drive it for awhile. That accident is giving me nightmares, keep seeing the smash into the pole and the hood going up from it. Over and over, friggin driving me nuts!

John - 72 Q Code

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I would agree with the finish comments thus far. No texture in the 71-73 colors. I have also used the SEM Hot Rod black on a Jeep I have been working on and it turned out to be a great finish. Maybe something to consider for a nice driver occasional show car. Allen Shepley from the 429 Megasite painted my car, so I can vouch for his process. Although, my driver side rocker panel had a pass with the buffer over it and shined it up a little more than the passenger side . Plan to fix than someday.

BKDunha

72 Mach 1 H-Code (Concourse driven restoration)

67 S-Code Factory GT with 4-Spd

68 Mercury Cyclone (Pro-Street project)

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I would agree with the finish comments thus far. No texture in the 71-73 colors.  I have also used the SEM Hot Rod black on a Jeep I have been working on and it turned out to be a great finish. Maybe something to consider for a nice driver occasional show car.  Allen Shepley from the 429 Megasite painted my car, so I can vouch for his process. Although, my driver side rocker panel had a pass with the buffer over it and shined it up a little more than the passenger side . Plan to fix than someday.

I was going to look to see what you used for your hood. Glad to hear you got it from the mega site and wow, you got that guy to paint your car to. Very cool. I am definitely going to show them this. Thanks!

John - 72 Q Code

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I suggest SEM Hot Rod Black  and if you wish, a coat of SEM Hot Rod Clear  over it as long as your painter doesn't get too much build-up or there will be quite a 'step' between the black-out and body color on the hood.

The color and sheen are in my humble opinion, perfect and hard wearing. I even use Mother's quick detailer on my hood without ANY ill effects to the sheen. i.e. it does not change the look of the finish. I found that out by mistake when I spilled some on the hood and was surprised I hadn't F'd it up.

If you're doing a concours job, you can still buy PPG 9381 Black from your local PPG supplier...……. or at least in Canada I can!

Geoff.

Thanks Geoff, I did mention that to him from reading your thread about it. But he said he did have the correct formula for it. I’m going to find out exactly what that is before any painting is done. And I do need to get my ass there ASAP, just so busy with work right now.

I will definitely check out all options beforehand, cause I want it to be easy to take care of. My car is a driver and that’s what I want. Even though when I get it back I’m going to be afraid to drive it for awhile. That accident is giving me nightmares, keep seeing the smash into the pole and the hood going up from it. Over and over, friggin driving me nuts!

 

 You should be able to buy the kits for SEM Hot Rod Black at a good auto vendor that sells auto paints like the SEM range. I have no idea about the US vendors, but if there is a Ray-Mac or CARQUEST or similar they should sell it. I wouldn't suggest mixing this, best to buy the proper "kit" which is 2 parts.

 Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I agree the SEM is good stuff. It comes in a box with a qt. of paint, half pint each of activator and reducer. Depending on how you reduce it and/or spray it you can end up with different textures. I used it on my brother in law's 70 Torino Cobra 5yrs ago and it has held up well. And isn't too bad to maintain. The cost is about 100.00 for the "kit". I have used it since on a lot of stuff. So I'll share A couple of things. It dries slow so dust can be a problem. If you have primer spots its best seal the whole area or chances are the spots will show . It's sensitive to humidity. I use an Iwatta 1.3 gun and spray it wet with a 70% or so overlap. On body panels 600 grit is good , engine compartments etc. you can get away with 320 or 400 grit. If you are doing stripes carefully untape before it's totally dry, the edges will be softer. Re doing stripes leaves a thick edge so I hope these tips are helpfull. Axalta Hot Hues hot rod black is also really good stuff.

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I have to disagree with the finish. My car has some roughness to it not smooth by any means. Not textured like heavy but for sure not smooth. Over time I am sure washing the car smooths it out but my car has not been washed in 36 years, lol.

Long gone now but use to get from DuPont I do not know if anyone could find their code and get it mixed some way. I used on a T-5 project I did back in the 70's.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I have to disagree with the finish. My car has some roughness to it not smooth by any means. Not textured like heavy but for sure not smooth. Over time I am sure washing the car smooths it out but my car has not been washed in 36 years, lol.

Long gone now but use to get from DuPont I do not know if anyone could find their code and get it mixed some way. I used on a T-5 project I did back in the 70's.

 

 David, don't get me wrong, I'm not picking on your comment about texture as I can't really answer that one.

 For me having a nice driver car and not a concours show trailer queen, the most important consideration to me is the SHAPE of the hood black-out. This as we know has been discussed many times here and your original hood is obviously exactly as it should be. Even from the factory, I'm sure there were slight variants to the positioning and shape. After all, the line painter only had minutes to do what we would take hours to do.

We see it all the time in picture on the forum, at shows and even in books on our Mustangs. The shape, positioning and sheen is just plain wrong. My car is no exception. The black-out on mine is wrong too, but too late and expensive to change or worry about. In my case, the Light Pewter metallic would be near impossible to rematch to the rest of the car, so it is what it is. In my case, the black-out is an inch too far from the hood front edge at 3". The shape is acceptable and done from a template, but my painter misunderstood when I told him 2" from the front of the hood, but I was also partly to blame as I forgot the trim molding was not yet on the car. I see this mistake all the time, but to most, no-one knows although to honest, it bugs me so at shows, I raise the hood. Many people enjoy looking at a nicely detailed engine bay over a correctly painted hood anyways!!

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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69' s were smooth 70 up has a light texture as far as I know. The texture can be reproduced with a wet coat then a dust coat right over it. It takes a practice peice to time it just right. My 2 cents.

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Ok thanks guys, more great info.

 

  Graphics Express in Florida have the template I used. Is it perfect, maybe not, but it's pretty damn close. My painter used it as a set-up guide only, then masked in the 1/4" line with 1/2" plastic line tape, you know, the blue stuff!

Paying attention to the details is what will get you where you want to be with it.

By the way, I bought my stripe kit from them as well. It was the best quality I found at the time and on the correct 3M material. There are other good brands out there...… except the junk NPD sell sold me (before I was told about Graphics Express) and had to re-do it.

Good luck,

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I used the graphic Express template and it had issues... It did not fit the hood as cut and delivered in the box, we had to cut it in order to expand it so that we could get the proper form on the hood. Even then, my painter was off by a 1/4" in one location which ultimately ended our "business" relationship... Three times the hood had to be repainted and I still could not get it done exactly as requested. In the end, it still looks good, but for the $$ I invested; I wanted perfect... We haven't spoken since... oh well.

"Yes dear", has kept me in the hobby a long time...

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I used the graphic Express template and it had issues... It did not fit the hood as cut and delivered in the box, we had to cut it in order to expand it so that we could get the proper form on the hood. Even then, my painter was off by a 1/4" in one location which ultimately ended our "business" relationship... Three times the hood had to be repainted and I still could not get it done exactly as requested. In the end, it still looks good, but for the $$ I invested; I wanted perfect... We haven't spoken since... oh well.

 

 That's unfortunate that your experience with the Graphics Express template caused you issues. I know how particular you are with your ultra rare 429 vert and so you should be. It's one beautiful car and deserves only the best.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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DSC-2475.jpg

 

David, I pulled this picture from your post on P1. I'm sure it's been measured before and noted, but could you do me a favor and measure the distance from the  outside edge of the 1/4" stripe to the very edge of the hood at the windshield and just where the curve starts. ON BOTH SIDES

I'm curious because I have it at 6" and that was from other info I found. Perhaps that was in the Mustang Monthly article, I can't remember.

Also, as noted on the 429 megasite, the "expert" Bob Perkins notes that the black-out paint is NON textured PPG 9423. That's interesting because from the scan of an actual original PPG color chart for 1971 & 72 Mustang (and others) the black-out paint is  Ditzler/PPG 9381. I could not find reference to the 9423 anywhere on those charts, back or front. My local PPG supplier tells me he can still match 9381.

See below. I posted the 72 as jpaz has a 72 Q code.

 

 

 

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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The owner of the shop where my car is says the blackout paint and texture should be the same from 69-73. They are painting  a 69 Mach 1 this week and I asked him if the blackout paint is the same for my car and he said yes. He has been doing Mustang restoration for about 35 years, so I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about. But I will definitely be checking out this paint before he does mine. Like I said before, he ownes an original and unrestored 71 429 Mach 1, so I am confident in what he is doing.

I will be going there before they start on my car, probably not for another week or so. I will let you guys know about their operation for sure. Can’t wait to see his 429 car either.

John - 72 Q Code

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The owner of the shop where my car is says the blackout paint and texture should be the same from 69-73. They are painting  a 69 Mach 1 this week and I asked him if the blackout paint is the same for my car and he said yes. He has been doing Mustang restoration for about 35 years, so I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about. But I will definitely be checking out this paint before he does mine. Like I said before, he ownes an original and unrestored 71 429 Mach 1, so I am confident in what he is doing.

I will be going there before they start on my car, probably not for another week or so. I will let you guys know about their operation for sure. Can’t wait to see his 429 car either.

 

 Sorry , but I believe he is wrong. At the end of the day, it's your car, your way.

Enjoy.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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The owner of the shop where my car is says the blackout paint and texture should be the same from 69-73. They are painting  a 69 Mach 1 this week and I asked him if the blackout paint is the same for my car and he said yes. He has been doing Mustang restoration for about 35 years, so I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about. But I will definitely be checking out this paint before he does mine. Like I said before, he ownes an original and unrestored 71 429 Mach 1, so I am confident in what he is doing.

I will be going there before they start on my car, probably not for another week or so. I will let you guys know about their operation for sure. Can’t wait to see his 429 car either.

 

 Sorry , but I believe he is wrong. At the end of the day, it's your car, your way.

Enjoy.

I’m still not sure about that either to tell you the truth. I’m not doing a concourse restoration or anything like that, but I would like it to be accurate. I sure do like the way your hood turned out and I also want it to be easy to take care of.

John - 72 Q Code

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DSC-2475.jpg

 

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David, I pulled this picture from your post on P1. I'm sure it's been measured before and noted, but could you do me a favor and measure the distance from the  outside edge of the 1/4" stripe to the very edge of the hood at the windshield and just where the curve starts. ON BOTH SIDES

I'm curious because I have it at 6" and that was from other info I found. Perhaps that was in the Mustang Monthly article, I can't remember.

Also, as noted on the 429 megasite, the "expert" Bob Perkins notes that the black-out paint is NON textured PPG 9423. That's interesting because from the scan of an actual original PPG color chart for 1971 & 72 Mustang (and others) the black-out paint is  Ditzler/PPG 9381. I could not find reference to the 9423 anywhere on those charts, back or front. My local PPG supplier tells me he can still match 9381.

See below. I posted the 72 as jpaz has a 72 Q code.

 

 

 

 

 

The expert with name that starts with P wrote the MCA rules to fit his needs not fit what the car was. I personally know he changes the mileage on the cars to his advantage.

Here is pic I had with a ruler on the hood might give you something. Dark now no power in the barn.

Stating a visual observation on the surface is too open. If the surface could be checked with profilometer and then compared is only real way of knowing. Opinions are just that you have to have facts to end it.

The black out is way off center as most are. They threw down the mask and sprayed the car.

 

DSC-2477.jpg

 

DSC-2478.jpg

 

DSC-2479.jpg

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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DSC-2475.jpg

 

David, I pulled this picture from your post on P1. I'm sure it's been measured before and noted, but could you do me a favor and measure the distance from the  outside edge of the 1/4" stripe to the very edge of the hood at the windshield and just where the curve starts. ON BOTH SIDES

I'm curious because I have it at 6" and that was from other info I found. Perhaps that was in the Mustang Monthly article, I can't remember.

Also, as noted on the 429 megasite, the "expert" Bob Perkins notes that the black-out paint is NON textured PPG 9423. That's interesting because from the scan of an actual original PPG color chart for 1971 & 72 Mustang (and others) the black-out paint is  Ditzler/PPG 9381. I could not find reference to the 9423 anywhere on those charts, back or front. My local PPG supplier tells me he can still match 9381.

See below. I posted the 72 as jpaz has a 72 Q code.

 

 

 

 

 

The expert with name that starts with P wrote the MCA rules to fit his needs not fit what the car was. I personally know he changes the mileage on the cars to his advantage.

Here is pic I had with a ruler on the hood might give you something. Dark now no power in the barn.

Stating a visual observation on the surface is too open. If the surface could be checked with profilometer and then compared is only real way of knowing. Opinions are just that you have to have facts to end it.

The black out is way off center as most are. They threw down the mask and sprayed the car.

 

 

David, thanks for taking the time to do this. It would definitely appear my info was a bit off as would be the Graphics Express template. The dimension I got (and I wish I could find that info), was 6" from the outside of the 1/4" stripe to the edge of the hood. Yours looks more like 5" and that make a bit more sense of what our friend, 7173Vert, with the powder blue 429 Vert was saying. Your comment on "they would throw down the mask and paint the car" makes sense, but we as restorers of our cars want them to be 'perfect' and we all know that doesn't often happen.

As for the "expert" I have no personal knowledge of his ethics or experience, but you're not the only one to question him from all accounts.

As for the texture, yes or no, I tried in vain to contact PPG in the hopes of finding the truth about what was what for the paint code numbers they used. Unfortunately, I could not get an email to go through. Maybe I'll try again if I can find another way. I'm as curious as all hell to find out as well now.

I did find another forum of sorts where this subject was the topic. It would seem the same misinformation and confusion is all over. Time to put the 'detective hat' on I guess!

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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