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Odd number / no spotwelds?


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When sanding for tail light panel spot welds I saw this:

 

417d622424137f54c4abaafc5ad38ed1.jpg

 

“85” stamped on it.

 

Anybody know what it means?

 

Cheers,

Vincent

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The brazing rod [ gold color metal ] means someone has done some welding work back there already

Might have replaced some parts years ago ... a lot of body shops used brazing rod to do patch work

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The brazing rod [ gold color metal ] means someone has done some welding work back there already

Might have replaced some parts years ago ... a lot of body shops used brazing rod to do patch work

 

Oooooh, I'm finding these all around the tail light panel. This probably means it's been replaced before?

 

I didn't know about the brazing technique, it's like soldering but with higher temps. Now, I was prepared drilling out spotwelds but with brazing the material flows in between the 2 joined pieces so potentially the brazing material is in a much larger area, right? And... does this mean I'm screwed wanting to remove the panel?

 

Any clues on the number 85 stamped in?

 

Thanks!

V.

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The brazing rod [ gold color metal ] means someone has done some welding work back there already

Might have replaced some parts years ago ... a lot of body shops used brazing rod to do patch work

 

Oooooh, I'm finding these all around the tail light panel. This probably means it's been replaced before?

 

I didn't know about the brazing technique, it's like soldering but with higher temps. Now, I was prepared drilling out spotwelds but with brazing the material flows in between the 2 joined pieces so potentially the brazing material is in a much larger area, right? And... does this mean I'm screwed wanting to remove the panel?

 

Any clues on the number 85 stamped in?

 

Thanks!

V.

No clue on the number 85

 

It looks like they drilled out the spot welds and brazed in a new panel, thru the drilled holes

Yes the material flows but not as much as solder. It follows the heat so it depends how hot the person who was

making the repair got it. I"ve taken some panels off where most of the brazing didn't hold at all ... metal was too dirty / rusty

If you drill the same holes and get most of the brazing rod out, the panel may pry apart.

You may have to drill larger hole or if you have a torch start to melt the brazing rod

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Pretty much every panel on a Ford has number codes on it. Do not know if the 85 is a Ford number or not. They code the stamping plant, Woodhaven, Ohio etc. also shift and date. They do that so if there is an issue in assembly they can sort out the parts by mfg. date.

Brazing was actually use on assembly at the factory on earlier cars in some areas but I think was over for 71 - 73. If you have a torch just heat it up and push it apart.

Nothing wrong with brazing. If you flux the parts good and know what you are doing works great.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Thanks guys. I do not have a torch and there might be more metal work to do in the rear as the drop offs are quite rusty as well so have to make a plan first...

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I'll try and take some pics of my rear panel tomorrow as its been stripped back, it also had some number stamps on it and brazing, i definitely got the impression it was factory, i couldnt see any cuts or joins and the internal trunk splatter paint was all the same.

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I'll try and take some pics of my rear panel tomorrow as its been stripped back, it also had some number stamps on it and brazing, i definitely got the impression it was factory, i couldnt see any cuts or joins and the internal trunk splatter paint was all the same.

 

I couldnt find the stamping but here's a pic of the brazing around the panel joins. So IMO these were done at the factory.... Unless proved otherwise.

 

 

sq9k-Nb79-Qc-Gy60-Rb-JBU0-Mw.jpg

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I'll try and take some pics of my rear panel tomorrow as its been stripped back, it also had some number stamps on it and brazing, i definitely got the impression it was factory, i couldnt see any cuts or joins and the internal trunk splatter paint was all the same.

 

I couldnt find the stamping but here's a pic of the brazing around the panel joins. So IMO these were done at the factory.... Unless proved otherwise.

 

 

sq9k-Nb79-Qc-Gy60-Rb-JBU0-Mw.jpg

I have not found any brazing work that was factory on the 71-3's

Ford used spot welds then.

Think about it, why would they drill holes and use brazing rod

Someone drilled out the original spot welds, repaired or replace the panel and brazed through the drilled holes

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I don't think so. All original spot welds were... spot welded.

The brazing is a typical 60-90's practice when most active repair men back then were doing it the "old way".

You would also find Tin vs bondo in many body repairs as well if done during this period.

There is nothing wrong with brazing or Tin when it's well done, in fact its sometime better as you have less chances of warping than with using a MIG.

Another plus is the ease to remove these vs the spot welds, where basically 2 sheets are melted to become one.

 

[unless proved otherwise]

From a Ford fabrication point of view, you bring electrodes, bzzzz, done. Brazing requires surface prep, some kind of flux, then a guy melts a rod with a torch and does some filing work after that. Without any hard evidence, only If you compare time/cost per tech, I'm pretty sure which of the two techs Ford would have picked to fab thousands of cars fast...

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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I don't think so. All original spot welds were... spot welded.

The brazing is a typical 60-90's practice when most active repair men back then were doing it the "old way".

You would also find Tin vs bondo in many body repairs as well if done during this period.

There is nothing wrong with brazing or Tin when it's well done, in fact its sometime better as you have less chances of warping than with using a MIG.

Another plus is the ease to remove these vs the spot welds, where basically 2 sheets are melted to become one.

 

[unless proved otherwise]

From a Ford fabrication point of view, you bring electrodes, bzzzz, done. Brazing requires surface prep, some kind of flux, then a guy melts a rod with a torch and does some filing work after that. Without any hard evidence, only If you compare time/cost per tech, I'm pretty sure which of the two techs Ford would have picked to fab thousands of cars fast...

 

ok fair points. I have found the brazing on my rear panel seams but no evidence of any other bondo repairs, though I am no expert. Could have been small repairs to fill holes i guess.

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I see open spot weld holes at the bottom flange, and brazing material real close to one of them, if not 3 of them.  I think that this was a repair and not a factory braze.

 

My 67 Cougar has brazing welds at all of the panel joints that are factory. At the top of each side of the cowl panel, lower and upper tail light panel were it meets the quarter panel, rear upper panel between the trunk and rear window, also on each door jam at the top and the bottom. All other welds are stop welds. Most of these places you cannot get a spot welder in because of most of the panel shapes and boxes created at the panel joints. My 72 Mustang I have found brazed areas in the exact same places all in the same joints. This has been my experience with the cars I own.

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I see open spot weld holes at the bottom flange, and brazing material real close to one of them, if not 3 of them.  I think that this was a repair and not a factory braze.

 

My 67 Cougar has brazing welds at all of the panel joints that are factory. At the top of each side of the cowl panel, lower and upper tail light panel were it meets the quarter panel, rear upper panel between the trunk and rear window, also on each door jam at the top and the bottom. All other welds are stop welds. Most of these places you cannot get a spot welder in because of most of the panel shapes and boxes created at the panel joints. My 72 Mustang I have found brazed areas in the exact same places all in the same joints. This has been my experience with the cars I own.

 

There are many places that are hand / stick welded ... but that is not torch welded gold color brazing rod that are shown in these repaired spots

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The other side has brazing spots as well. All the panels have the original paint on them so nothing has been replaced I think.

 

0433eba3acfa248338bf1fa8258a178c.jpg

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The other side has brazing spots as well. All the panels have the original paint on them so nothing has been replaced I think.

 

0433eba3acfa248338bf1fa8258a178c.jpg

 

From the factory that seam would look like this ... overlaped and spot welded no filler

025.jpg

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The other side has brazing spots as well. All the panels have the original paint on them so nothing has been replaced I think.

 

0433eba3acfa248338bf1fa8258a178c.jpg

 

From the factory that seam would look like this ... overlaped and spot welded no filler

025.jpg

 

I don't see any differences... Note that the original color of my car is not white but bronze. It has been painted and possible sanded but not underneath the rubber trunk seal.

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