Jump to content

Carb recommendations?


Recommended Posts

My motor is a .030 over Q code.  I think it has a mild cam.  It does have an edelbrock torque intake.  I've got a 650 dbl pmp Holley on it now however it is not in good shape even after a rebuild.  Its running very rich and the AF mixture screws do very little when adjusted.  Right now they are a full turn out on both sides.  It is shooting fuel up from the throat (Not needle and seat) every time I open the throttle.  Its like the fuel from the shooters is hitting the choke plate and deflecting up in the air.  There is also play in some of the linkage.  I am thinking about giving up on this carb and putting something else on it.  I really don't want to spend $400 + on a new carb.  There is a 750 edelbrock (1407) reman on ebay for $270 + $20 S&H.  Are there any other suggestions???

 

Anyone have a good carb they want to get rid of?

Thanks!

Wade

1972 Mach 1 351 cj 4speed

"We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it."--Thomas Jefferson

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a fan of edelbrock carbs at all. Just my opinion. I have heard good things about the Summit branded carbs as an economical option. Here are two 750's below the $400 mark.

 

Vacuum Secondary

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-m08750vs/overview/

 

Mechanical Secondary

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-m08750ms/overview/

 

Quick Fuel Brawler series are also good bang for the buck.

73 Grande H Code. Headman long tube headers, T-5 Transmission, 3.70 Traclok, Lowered 1" all around, Aussie 2v heads w/ 2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust, screw in studs, full roller cam 608/612 lift 280/281 duration LSA 112, Quick Fuel 750 CFM double pumper, AirGap intake.

 

- Jason

 

 

082-hot-rod-power-tour-2017-1970-1970s.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually AM an Edelbrock fan... however, I think a 750 might too much carb for a 351C.  I have a 351C-2V with an Edelbrock 1406 on top of a Performer intake and a mild/mid cam from CompCams (see 'My Garage' for engine specs), and it's just about right.  

 

Having said that, you can always re-jet to back off the flow a bit if needed.  Don't forget to read the instructions when installing - a lot of people (including my pal who was a 40+ year master mechanic) just toss 'em on and fiddle with the adjustments until it all 'feels' right.  After he did all that, it actually did run really well, but I read the instructions, and made some more adjustments, which made it run even better (he was impressed as well, and realized that he'd just learned a little bit more about his favorite carbs as well).

 

I like 'em because they're very simple, and only have one main body gasket at the top which ensures it will not leak all over the place unless something is severely wrong (unlike just about every Holley I've ever encountered).  That's not a bash against Holley just to start a flame war, either... just my observations, which are not very numerous, to be honest.  If you prefer Holleys and can make them work and be happy with them, more power to you - go with what works for you.

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WELL you maybe hell bent on REPLACING .....but (not being a Edelbrock Fan -nothing to due with an action bay Vic 30 years ago) I watch this video

 

Now I know Holley Carbs - and just dealt with an accelerator pump issues ...so my effort on you behalf was to learn IF could be same as my issue.

 

WHEN I SEE "although recently rebuilt" - I always think WHAT was done wrong/missed or incorrectly! At first I thought could this be a case of the NOZZLES being turned?? Watching the video - I would question if the check ball was an issue.

 

Again - you seem to be talking yourself into a carb - but waffle with the don't want to spend the money. Personally I would take about and LOOK at it again. (that is free)

 

Mark

P.S. MY issue was the opposite (not enough fuel despite) new diaphragm and clean nozzles. After having the bowl off a number of times I FINALLY disassembled the bowl parts them self and found a small hard deposit IN THE exit passage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having said what I said about the Edelbrocks, I think Mark is onto something there.  I'd recommend hitting up as many Holley guys as you can find and make sure your 650 DP's really not worth saving before pulling the trigger on something 'new.'

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I don't like the look  of the Edelbrook as it looks like it's on 'sideways' I have no experience with how well they work so no comment there.

I chose the Holley 80670 670cfm 4V vac secondary's, but I had issue with it running very rich at idle. I took the car to a tuning specialist and he drilled  a 3/32" hole in each primary throttle plate and that helped the problem no end as well as resetting the transfer slots which I had set way too far open trying to get that extra air. I also recurved my distributor. Now it runs about as good as it can get.... for now.

I am looking at swapping that out for a Quick Fuel HR 735 as it is more tunable on each corner. I often feel my engine needs just a bit more air. Before I do make up my mind, I am going to borrow a friends air/fuel ratio meter just to see exactly where it's really at to take the guess work out. Perhaps I'll just stick with the Holley 670.

Just my thought on it,

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check out Browler which is Holley's economy brand.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless you know who "remanufactured" the eBay carburetor I wouldn't even consider it as a possibility. Someone may have just dunked it in a bucket of carburetor cleaner and called it good.

 

I agree with what Mark said.

 

Idle air adjustment problems is usually a sign of plugged passages. It likely just needs a proper rebuild.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless you know who "remanufactured" the eBay carburetor I wouldn't even consider it as a possibility. Someone may have just dunked it in a bucket of carburetor cleaner and called it good.

 

I agree with what Mark said.

 

Idle air adjustment problems is usually a sign of plugged passages. It likely just needs a proper rebuild.

 

 Totally agree with what both you and Mark said. I didn't see Mark's reply as I was adding my 2 cents worth at the time.

 The only comment on the DP is why chose a DP on a street car, aren't they harder on gas and harder to tune the secondary's? 

 

 The car I have had a Holley 670 when I bought it, but it ran like total crap and I could not get it to idle. That's when I just replaced it with a custom built Holley 650 4V.

 Eventually, I bought a new 670 which is still on the car. On thorough inspection of the original carb, it was found that the right side idle passage was over drilled for the idle mixture screw, so any adjustment to that screw had zero effect. It was a factory defect apparently. All I really needed was to replace the primary metering block. Could have save several hundred dollars!

My point here now is, find out why before you replace.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i like the edelbrock's.. i feel they are easier to work on and easier to adjust. i hate that bowl adjustment on the holley... when i got my stang it had a holley on it.. it came off right away and got a used edelbrock and rebuilt it and have not touched it in 2 yrs... holley is bagged up on the shelf.

the worst part is holley is my last name also... but no money from them..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes - Don C brought up a VERY good point, regarding the ebay carb.

 

As far as the Edelbrocks looking like they're on 'sideways,' I'd never really considered anything like that before.  Interesting you should mention that.  I think it's pretty much just what you're used to and/or prefer.  Once you get 'em adjusted right and working happily with the rest of the engine package, it really doesn't matter which way you go.

 

Although, I would be suspect of a product based on the thought of having to drill holes in throttle plates just to get it to work right.  Just sayin' ;)  :whistling:

 

:cool:

Eric

mach1sig2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually AM an Edelbrock fan... however, I think a 750 might too much carb for a 351C.  I have a 351C-2V with an Edelbrock 1406 on top of a Performer intake and a mild/mid cam from CompCams (see 'My Garage' for engine specs), and it's just about right.  

 

A 2V engine is a very different animal than a 4V. Even with a mild 214/224 cam, I ran an 800DP with zero issues and instant throttle response. It's all in the how you tune the accelerator pump. Those big ports need a big shot of fuel immediately to get things going.

 

 

My motor is a .030 over Q code.  I think it has a mild cam.  It does have an edelbrock torque intake.  I've got a 650 dbl pmp Holley on it now however it is not in good shape even after a rebuild.  Its running very rich and the AF mixture screws do very little when adjusted.  Right now they are a full turn out on both sides.  It is shooting fuel up from the throat (Not needle and seat) every time I open the throttle.  Its like the fuel from the shooters is hitting the choke plate and deflecting up in the air.  There is also play in some of the linkage.  I am thinking about giving up on this carb and putting something else on it.  I really don't want to spend $400 + on a new carb.  There is a 750 edelbrock (1407) reman on ebay for $270 + $20 S&H.  Are there any other suggestions???

 

Anyone have a good carb they want to get rid of?

 

 

Sounds like the accelerator pump discharge nozzle was installed upside down. The tubes or the holes in the it should face down to the boosters, not up towards the choke plate. 

 

Most times when the mixture screws are ineffective, the fuel level is too high. With the engine running, make sure that fuel is not dripping out the boosters. If it is, lower the floats until it stops. The sight plugs are a reference, not a hard and fast setting. I've had to run carbs with them above or below for best performance.

 

If you do give up on the 650, the Summit carbs are a great value and perform very well. I'm presently running the original Holley 4010 600DP on the 302 in my 71. The carb is based off the Autolite 4100 with annular boosters.

 

 

holley-accelerator-pump-discharge-nozzles-513.gif

 

 

121-135.jpg

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even though I'm not in the market for a new carburetor, if I were it would be a Summit, it looks to me like they combined the best features of the Ford 4100 and Holleys into their carburetor.

 

I've had, and worked on, Carter and Edelbrock carburetors and Edelbrocks are at the bottom of my list for potential new carburetors.

 

My next replacement is likely to be FiTech fuel injection.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes - Don C brought up a VERY good point, regarding the ebay carb.

 

As far as the Edelbrocks looking like they're on 'sideways,' I'd never really considered anything like that before.  Interesting you should mention that.  I think it's pretty much just what you're used to and/or prefer.  Once you get 'em adjusted right and working happily with the rest of the engine package, it really doesn't matter which way you go.

 

Although, I would be suspect of a product based on the thought of having to drill holes in throttle plates just to get it to work right.  Just sayin' ;)  :whistling:

 

:cool:

 

 Yeah, it's funny but they just looks wrong to me and you're probably right that it's what is most commonly seen and we're used to.

 

As for my carb issues, It's been hashed over many times on here before and to be honest I was reluctant to let the guy do it. This tuner specializes in stock cars (Mud Puddle racers I call 'em) and is a trick often used. Heck, even my daughter who used to be involved with stock cars, knew about it.

**Bottom line is it worked to balance out the air ratio and my plugs reflect that**. Perhaps this s something many are simply not aware of. I do agree though Holley carbs should not need to be tweaked in this fashion, but then  '71 351C 4V's are not the normal engine set up.

Geoff.

 

Edit note; ** I should have clarified this is to balance the A/F ratio at idle. Once off idle, it has no effect.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On a side note here...…...Holley Carburetor was an OEM supplier to Ford as far back as the Model T days. The Holley 4160 carb ( that we all know today ) was designed originally for the 1957 Ford T-Bird 312 and was original equipment on it. Holley's Dominator carb was designed originally for the big Ford Boss engines running Nascar. The 4150 Holley carbs were OEM on various Boss 302 and 428 Fords. Holleys are appropriate on Fords, and are quite simple. That said, the Summit carb was DESIGNED and marketed by Holley around 1989. Summit bought the rights to sell them cast as their own, but have been around for years, and are very decent carbs, and they have the one piece body and down-leg boosters as the Ford 4100 carbs were famously designed with ( the 4100 is a good carb in it's own right, I think Ford stopped putting them on their 4bbl engines around '68) . Holley released the model 4010 carb ( the Summit carb ) around 1989. Even though the Edelbrock carb is a Weber re-do of the original Carter AFB, for some reason, they don't run as well as the old Carter AFBs, especially the "Competition Series" AFBs, which were great.

Personally, I like the Holley 4160 and Summit carbs on the street with an automatic. I'd go to the 4150 if I had a hotter 4 speed. But , in any case, I find that I'll trust rebuilding as long as the carb was purchased new by me in the first place ...…….otherwise, you may never know of internal problems. The very best rule of thumb, if you're not well versed in carburetors, is to just buy a new one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even though I'm not in the market for a new carburetor, if I were it would be a Summit, it looks to me like they combined the best features of the Ford 4100 and Holleys into their carburetor.

 

I've had, and worked on, Carter and Edelbrock carburetors and Edelbrocks are at the bottom of my list for potential new carburetors.

 

My next replacement is likely to be FiTech fuel injection.

 

My experience mirror's yours. I have run the Summit carbs on two applications and found it to be one of the best carbs out there for the street. Those big annular boosters are just what the doctor ordered for a Cleveland and I like the fact that you can change jets without spilling fuel. A 750 VS would work fine. On the flip side, the Summit carb may give up some HP vs, a traditional Holley or Quick Fuel that is equipped with traditional downleg boosters. I've seen it on the dyno with my 306 Windsor and also read similar in carburetor shootouts. It would not be my first choice on a car that I raced however; the throttle response, quick starting and good fuel mileage are what you want on a street cruiser.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can get a brand new summit carb, 750 cfm w/electric choke for 315 bucks and free shipping. Why would you take a chance on something used on flea bay? For about 20-25 bucks more you get a great carb that’s brand new. Sounds like a no brainer to me. Even if you don’t get that one, I think you will have less headaches with a new one. Just my thought. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

John - 72 Q Code

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I just did not know or realize until recently, that Quick Fuel carbs are made by Holley. I always thought they were an off-shoot carb designed by some ex Holley engineers. Maybe my info was wrong from the start. Last week, I was looking at new carbs and went to the Holley website only to find Quick Fuel listed as well. On the Holley website, one can enter the specs for your engine. For a 351 @5500rpm max with mild modifications, it listed carbs between 570 and 600 cfm. This does not take into account the 351C 4V's massive valves and ports. I was also looking at the Summit brand. 

 

Reading the latest post from Spike and others and if cost is a consideration, the Summit brand would probably be top of the list. I forget which of the Australian members said he had the summit and was very happy with it.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

On a side note here...…...Holley Carburetor was an OEM supplier to Ford as far back as the Model T days. The Holley 4160 carb ( that we all know today ) was designed originally for the 1957 Ford T-Bird 312 and was original equipment on it. Holley's Dominator carb was designed originally for the big Ford Boss engines running Nascar. The 4150 Holley carbs were OEM on various Boss 302 and 428 Fords.  Holleys are appropriate on Fords, and are quite simple.  That said, the Summit carb was DESIGNED and marketed by Holley around 1989. Summit bought the rights to  sell them cast as their own, but have been around for years, and are very decent carbs, and they have the one piece body and down-leg boosters as the Ford 4100 carbs were famously designed with ( the 4100 is a good carb in it's own right, I think Ford stopped putting them on their 4bbl engines around '68) . Holley released the model 4010 carb ( the Summit carb ) around 1989.  Even though the Edelbrock carb is a Weber re-do of the original Carter AFB, for some reason, they don't run as well as the old Carter AFBs, especially the "Competition Series" AFBs, which were great.

Personally, I like the Holley 4160 and Summit carbs on the street with an automatic. I'd go to the 4150 if I had a hotter 4 speed. But , in any case, I find that I'll trust rebuilding as long as the carb was purchased new by me in the first place ...…….otherwise, you may never know of internal problems. The very best rule of thumb, if you're not well versed in carburetors, is to just buy a new one.

 

Spike, Amen to all that you just stated. Ron

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I just did not know or realize until recently, that Quick Fuel carbs are made by Holley. I always thought they were an off-shoot carb designed by some ex Holley engineers. Maybe my info was wrong from the start. Last week, I was looking at new carbs and went to the Holley website only to find Quick Fuel listed as well. On the Holley website, one can enter the specs for your engine. For a 351 @5500rpm max with mild modifications, it listed carbs between 570 and 600 cfm. This does not take into account the 351C 4V's massive valves and ports. I was also looking at the Summit brand. 

 

Reading the latest post from Spike and others and if cost is a consideration, the Summit brand would probably be top of the list. I forget which of the Australian members said he had the summit and was very happy with it.

 

Holley bought QF a few years ago along with MSD and a good portion of the hot rod parts industry. In turn, Holley is owned by Sentinel Capital. That is why everything is priced the same no matter where you buy it. In the old days we called that price fixing. Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn’t know that either. I bought a Quick Fuel carb last year and I really like it. It’s very responsive and with the Blue Thunder intake on my newly built motor it’s really running great. Hopefully they don’t turn theses into crap, but don’t hold your breath. I guess theses summit carbs are looking like the way to go.

John - 72 Q Code

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I just did not know or realize until recently, that Quick Fuel carbs are made by Holley. I always thought they were an off-shoot carb designed by some ex Holley engineers. Maybe my info was wrong from the start. Last week, I was looking at new carbs and went to the Holley website only to find Quick Fuel listed as well. On the Holley website, one can enter the specs for your engine. For a 351 @5500rpm max with mild modifications, it listed carbs between 570 and 600 cfm. This does not take into account the 351C 4V's massive valves and ports. I was also looking at the Summit brand. 

 

Reading the latest post from Spike and others and if cost is a consideration, the Summit brand would probably be top of the list. I forget which of the Australian members said he had the summit and was very happy with it.

 

Holley bought QF a few years ago along with MSD and a good portion of the hot rod parts industry. In turn, Holley is owned by Sentinel Capital. That is why everything is priced the same no matter where you buy it. In the old days we called that price fixing. Chuck

 

 Thanks for the clarification Chuck.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...