Jump to content

C6 conversion to Toploader 4 speed


Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

 Since last weekend I think about rebuild my car with a Toploader instead of the C6

 

I understand that it's not a simple thing to do, but as the car is almost naked, it's a good opportunity to do that. Also I prefer to drive with a manual transmission, this is personnal, everyone has his own preferency.

 

 

I have a Toploader, from a 67 Mustang (RUG M), 28 splines, but with the 14" tail housing, instead of the 17", so the axle shaft I have should be too short... maybe...

 

 

What is needed:

 

 

-clutch

 

-clutch bell,

 

-fork

 

-shifter

 

-transmission mount

 

-transmission cross member

 

-28 splines yoke

 

-clutch and brake pedals...

 

-flywheel, bolts...

 

Thank you for your comment, based on your experience or ideas,

 

Manu

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RUG-M is a '67 390 wide ratio transmission, which has a longer shorter input shaft than a small block toploader. You'll need to swap that out. The particular tailhousing you have will determine which shifter installation kit you need to order, post a pic of the driver's side. Since the input swap necessitates dropping the cluster gear, you'll want to add a rebuild kit to your list.

 

You'll want a pedal support assembly with the clutch & brake pedals that is the same year of your car if possible. There were minor changes to the steering column bracketry. Power or manual doesn't matter, as you can use your existing pedal by trimming down the pad.

 

To add to your list:

 

speedometer cable & gear

pilot bearing

clutch fork boot

shifter boot

Z-bar with bushings, clips, mounts, springs and rods

reverse light harness and switch

 

Image of the 71-73 clutch linkage from the MPC below, also attached as PDF for easy printing.

 

71-73clutch.jpg

71-73clutch.pdf

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can use the pedal assembly of an auto car. You just need to get a clutch pedal bearing kit and the pedal itself.

Edit: you can cut your brake pedal to fit the smaller pad used with the clutch. I have an extra pad i think if you want it.

For the bearing kit i used Scott Drake's.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can use the pedal assembly of an auto car. You just need to get a clutch pedal bearing kit and the pedal itself.

 

 

 

 

Very true, I always forget those are available. A cable conversion is also a possibility. 

 

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/1971-73_Mustang-Cable-Clutch-Conversion.htm

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can use the pedal assembly of an auto car. You just need to get a clutch pedal bearing kit and the pedal itself.

 

 

 

 

Very true, I always forget those are available. A cable conversion is also a possibility. 

 

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/1971-73_Mustang-Cable-Clutch-Conversion.htm

Correct. I installed MD's cable kit and their pedal as well. Not that difficult after you get the pedal assembly out. I removed the steering column and drivers seat when removing the pedals.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That means that I don't need the Z bar if I choose to use the cable kit?

Well sounds good, I will find a Toploader with the 17" tail housing if that can be more simple for me.

 

Here is pics from this 67 Toploader, and you can see as well the input shaft from the Toploader I rebuilt for the Mach 1 Sprint from Mexico, with 17" tail housing, I can see the difference, but the input looks shorter on the RUG-M than the other one...

IMG-20190520-201110.jpg

 

IMG-20190520-201124.jpg

 

Img-180827191246300-1.jpg

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That means that I don't need the Z bar if I choose to use the cable kit?

 

Correct.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That means that I don't need the Z bar if I choose to use the cable kit?

Well sounds good, I will find a Toploader with the 17" tail housing if that can be more simple for me.

 

Here is pics from this 67 Toploader, and you can see as well the input shaft from the Toploader I rebuilt for the Mach 1 Sprint from Mexico, with 17" tail housing, I can see the difference, but the input looks shorter on the RUG-M than the other one...

 

 

I got it bass-ackwards. The 390 input is shorter than the small block unit in the pilot bearing length. There is an available extended pilot bushing, but they really don't work well. 

 

Need a pic of the tailhousing, so we can figure out the shifter arrangement. The Galaxy 17" tail might work, but you would have at tough time with the shifter. I think the costs associated with that and locating the tailhousing and output shaft would be far more than a driveshaft.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will go with the cable, but it is ok with a Toploader and factory 351C bell housing?

Then if it's more easy with a Toploader with 17" tail housing, I will find one. Don't know if it's possible to extend a drive shaft, but sure it's possible to shortened it. Plus if it's too complicate for the shifter as well...

 

IMG-20190520-201117.jpg

 

mettre une image en ligne

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, that's what Hurst refers to as the "433" Toploader and you'll use the parts for the 67-69 390/428 Mustangs. The shifter comes out in the same location so it'll work fine in a 71-73.

 

Shifter - 391-3180

Install kit - 373-5587

 

Set the shifter up with it bolted to an engine stand outside the car so it'll be all adjusted when you install it.

 

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/499012-67-390-mustang-top-loader-hurst-shifter-question.html

 

 

-

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, that's what Hurst refers to as the "433" Toploader and you'll use the parts for the 67-69 390/428 Mustangs. The shifter comes out in the same location so it'll work fine in a 71-73.

 

Shifter - 391-3180

Install kit - 373-5587

 

Set the shifter up with it bolted to an engine stand outside the car so it'll be all adjusted when you install it.

 

https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/499012-67-390-mustang-top-loader-hurst-shifter-question.html

 

 

-Very cool thanks :) 

 

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I receive a quotation from Modern Driveline. The cable kit can be used with a new bellhousing that fit T5 or other modern trans, and I want to use a Toploader. The only way could be to use an hydraulic system.

 

At the mean time I receive a message from a member that propose me a set of pedal and Z bar. So I think I go for it.

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Marti report could give sometimes mistakes? My Mach1 vin is 3F05Q......

Marti report says that this car came with  front brake dics but I have drums, with power booster.  

 

As a great member propose me a set of pedal with the Z bar, how could I be 100% sure this will fit on my car? I know some of you guys did this swap ...

 

IMG-4141.jpg

 

IMG-4142.jpg

 

IMG-4143.jpg

 

IMG-4144.jpg

 

IMG-4145.jpg

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The MD cable setup is intended for use with the 5.0L T5 bellhousing and fork as Fox body Mustangs used a cable setup so the bell and fork are designed that way. You can’t use your Toploader with a 5.0L bell as the T5 bell’s trans bolt pattern is different and the T5’s input shaft is longer.

 

71-73 pedal supports interchange, BUT- there are differences in the supports for cars that had tilt steering columns and differences at the firewall for cars that power brakes. You can compare photos if you don’t know what kind of car that other support came out of, but you should be able to get it to work.

 

Also- I don’t think 71-73’s used a long tail trans, I’m 99% sure hat all mustangs used a 24” long gearbox, only full sizes (Galaxies, Ltds) and 70-up Torino’s, Rauncheros, Fairlanes, falcons used the 27” box.

 

I may be wrong but I think this is the case. You may need a new driveshaft simply because your swapping auto for manual...

 

Good luck!

 

-Matt

Matt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just one guy's opinion but, if you are using an "Long Style" clutch stay with the mechanical linkage, ie. Z bar, rods, and bushings. Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Some update.

 

I finally go for a Toploader, as my rear end is 3.25, I'm afraid about the 5th gear front a TKO. Anyway, I found, and I am luck for that, a RF D2AR-7006-CB W1, need a complete rebuild. The Hurst shifter is with the trans. Plus a bellhousing (explosive proof) plus the starter, and all this is 125 miles from me! I pick up that next saturday.

 

I will receive a set pedal + Z bar (thanks to MeZaPu).

 

Also, I found a pair of D1ZF-DA (2A11), actually I don't need, but it's not everyday I can find those for 250 US Dollar.

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just glanced at your list (first post) but now reading ....you have a chance to get a complete set much better IMO.

 

You will also need, Flywheel, pilot bearing, hardened bolts for trans, frame mount and rubber mount, speedo cable (or at least the 4 speed end) reversed light switch and harness shifter upper and lower boot and drive shaft 50 3/4 inch.

 

Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Manu, if I may make a suggestion that will greatly help reduce the amount of effort needed to push the clutch down, before you install the pedals, buy the clutch shaft bearing kit from Mustang Steve and have it installed. Scott Drake also sell a kit, but I preferred the Mustang Steve kit. Sorry I don't have any pics of when I did mine.

I also bought bronze bushings to replace all the plastic garbage Ford chose to use on the original set-up. This modification made a HUGE difference to the pedal pressure. I also used the Centerforce II 11" diaphragm clutch, but there are many choices in clutches, but I have found the Centerforce very adequate with a stockish 351 C 4V. 

If you do not have machining skills or capability, It would be worth paying to get this mod done, your left leg will thank you!!

All the best with the mod.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a thread I started about installing the clutch pedal and bearing:

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-bearing-kit-for-clutch-pedal

20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It must be this?

 

https://www.mustangsteve.com/product/bbk/

 

I take any advise that would be better for me and my car.

 

Thank you everyone.

 

Yes, that's the kit I bought. Also read the post in the link above in Tony Muscle's post. 

When I did mine, I found that the bracket sides were not parallel which meant the bearing carrier rings needed to be ground some to get the bearings and shaft to line up correctly. I hope that make sense to you. The bracket you have (or getting) may not need this slight alteration. The aim is to get it all working without any resistance.

It will be a worthwhile upgrade for sure although quite a bit of work.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know now why I was unsure about the 14 or 17" tailhousing.

The Mach 1 Mexican Sprint, which has as well a Toploader, with the 17" tailhousing. The reason is because those cars came from factory with Dana 44 rear end. I didn't measure the drive shaft yet, but I am almost sure it will be around 47", the one used on A/T.

 

That said, I found a RUG BJ or BJ1, no tag on it. This is the same transmission I've got on my 73 Grandé.

Plus I also came back with a Lakewood 15200 blowout proof, Hurst compétion shifter, fork, equalizer bar, crossmember and the best , a drive shaft, 50+, the one with the C6 is 47+.

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Is roller bearings C5ZZ-2478-rb is what I need to adapt brake and clutch pedals on my 73 AT pedal bracket?

 

IMG-20190617-182324.jpg

 

IMG-20190617-182711.jpgImg-190618195714918-1.jpg

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that's what people are using, Tony-muscle did the roller conversion IIRC.

 

The 71-73 pedal shafts are divorced, the clutch pedal pivot shaft rides in bushings that are pressed into those two "double d" shaped holes.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, good info here as well

 

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-bear...utch-pedal

 

I read, from 73pony that it's not absolutly necessary to weld on the AT pedal bracket as the circlips (SD roller bearing kit) are so tight that it's hold the pedal axle.

 

Also, I noticed that the mounting from the AT brake pedal is wider than the one from the MT brake pedal.

Is this bearing kit catch up the gap?

AT-brake-pedal.jpg

 

MT-brake-pedal.jpg

Mustang, beer and rock'nroll

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...