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Hello,

 

      Have posted about this in the past ... still chasing the Gremlin !  At app. 39-45 mph I have a noticeable left/right shake of the steering wheel.  Feels like it is in the front end to me. All the front end components were replaced as were all the shocks a few years ago.  Front end was aligned.  Vehicle tracks straight.  More recently I had the drive shaft balanced and replaced the Harmonic balancer.  Within the last few weeks I was told by not one but two mechanics after evaluation that I had a bad front right tire and wheel. (Magnum 500's).  Since the tires were 7 years old I decided to get a new set of Cooper Cobra Radial GT's.  I ordered a new Magnum 500 wheel from Jegs which was manufactured by Vintique. Took it to the tire shop to have it checked before tire was mounted.  The brand new wheel was bad, worse than the one I am replacing.  Sent it back and ordered a new wheel from Coker Tire.  Wheel manufactured by Specialized Wheels.  Coker Tire checked it before they shipped and it was fine.  My tire installer also checked it and agreed.  He mounted the new tire and balanced it with no issues.  The shake is still there. I have had an old school transmission shop check the drive line and they found no issues.  I also determined that my right rear brake drum was warped and not spinning smoothly, I have replaced that.  

 

 

       What am I missing ? Could it be an issue with wheel bearings, they seem fine, no noise ?  Can the steering box cause this kind of issue ?  My steering box is original and does leak a small amount of fluid.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks

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Wild guess but you might check the steering box mount bolts. I had this death wobble on a car in my teens and that was it.   Ed Raver

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You might try a different tire shop. I had a vibration problem and finally took mine to a different shop, problem solved. Either the shop I normally went to had a worn out machine, or it was out of calibration.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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You might try a different tire shop. I had a vibration problem and finally took mine to a different shop, problem solved. Either the shop I normally went to had a worn out machine, or it was out of calibration.

Both good suggestions, I think the tire balancing issue is good since I have been to two different shops. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.  THanks\

Steve

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Jack the front end up and check the front end for looseness - upper and lower ball joints, tie rod ends, pitman and idler arm. Any of those being loose could cause your problem.

 

It's possible you still have a bad tire or rim. Have someone spin the tires one at at time. Watch the tire from the front for any bulges or signs of the tread wandering left<-> right. Watch it from the side to look for bulges and any obvious out of round conditions. Do the same thing with the rims. If you don't see anything, repeat the process for the rears, if those look okay, then I'd swap them front <-> rear and test drive.

 

In my experience - 99% of the time when you have a steering wheel moving, it's a bad tire with a shifted or broken belt.

 

 

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Jack the front end up and check the front end for looseness - upper and lower ball joints, tie rod ends, pitman and idler arm. Any of those being loose could cause your problem.

 

It's possible you still have a bad tire or rim. Have someone spin the tires one at at time. Watch the tire from the front for any bulges or signs of the tread wandering left<-> right. Watch it from the side to look for bulges and any obvious out of round conditions. Do the same thing with the rims. If you don't see anything, repeat the process for the rears, if those look okay, then I'd swap them front <-> rear and test drive.

 

In my experience - 99% of the time when you have a steering wheel moving, it's a bad tire with a shifted or broken belt.

Tires are all brand new, replaced a bad rim and all have been balanced.  Front end is fine. I checked the 3 bolts that hold the steering box to the frame rail and they are tight.  Could there be a problem inside the steering box ?  Does this sound like an alignment problem ?  Thanks

 

steve

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Just my thought on it. If all else checks out front and back, then I would for sure look at the steering box. I take it is power? without re-reading, I'm not sure.

There could be a few things inside that I think might cause a problem. The sector shaft bearing shot, the sector shaft "teeth" are badly worn or the rack piston is badly worn. However I think you would more likely feel the car wandering around more than shaking side to side. If the PS box is original, good chance it needs a rebuild anyway, so might be a good time to look at that option. You can buy a quick ratio already to bolt on. Several rebuilders out there to chose from.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Just my thought on it. If all else checks out front and back, then I would for sure look at the steering box. I take it is power? without re-reading, I'm not sure.

There could be a few things inside that I think might cause a problem. The sector shaft bearing shot, the sector shaft "teeth" are badly worn or the rack piston is badly worn. However I think you would more likely feel the car wandering around more than shaking side to side. If the PS box is original, good chance it needs a rebuild anyway, so might be a good time to look at that option. You can buy a quick ratio already to bolt on. Several rebuilders out there to chose from.

Geoff.

It is power and both the steering box and pump leak a little fluid.  They are original to the car.  Don't want to keep throwing more money at this problem, but probably couldn't hurt to rebuild/replace those two components.  Thanks

steve

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Just my thought on it. If all else checks out front and back, then I would for sure look at the steering box. I take it is power? without re-reading, I'm not sure.

There could be a few things inside that I think might cause a problem. The sector shaft bearing shot, the sector shaft "teeth" are badly worn or the rack piston is badly worn. However I think you would more likely feel the car wandering around more than shaking side to side. If the PS box is original, good chance it needs a rebuild anyway, so might be a good time to look at that option. You can buy a quick ratio already to bolt on. Several rebuilders out there to chose from.

Geoff.

It is power and both the steering box and pump leak a little fluid.  They are original to the car.  Don't want to keep throwing more money at this problem, but probably couldn't hurt to rebuild/replace those two components.  Thanks

steve

 Good call. Your life might depend on it!

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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You might want to check out Lares Corp at www.larescorp.com Go to catalog, power steering and manual steering gear, load your year and engine etc and look for remanufactured power steering box number 806. It does NOT give a ratio, so I guess it would be the stock 17.5:1. You may be able to send yours in for rebuild and return especially if it's a variable ratio SPA-T (on the tag), didn't look into that option. You would also need to buy a 201 rag joint coupler. Use one of those anyway even if you don't buy the box from them

There is also www.powersteering.com , www.steerandgear.com in Ohio to list a couple.

You could rebuild your own. However from my own experience, the main problem won't be buying a rebuild kit, Rock Auto, Edelmann 7858 comp. with bearings, but the lower end of the sector shaft will in all likelihood, be scored from years of dirt build up. There is no dirt seal as there is on the input shaft. The way to fix that is have a machine shop turn the damaged area and get it hard chromed and ground to size = expensive. I do know they can be bought already done, but no idea where. I redid my own as I am/was a machinist with a helpful ex-boss and a shop full of equipment.

My own 'story' started when I sent my V/R box to a nearby rebuilder who royally f'd it up and I decided I'd better figure it out for myself. That's how I know resurfaced sector shafts are available as he installed one and that's about the only thing he did right.

There are many video's on YouTube, but beware, lots are from people who really don't know too much. None the less, there is useful info to be gleaned from them.

To get rid of play on the steering wheel, do NOT just tighten the adjuster screw on the box cover. Some adjustment is in order, but only about 1/4 to 1/2 turn clockwise. Much more than that and you could ditch the car. The way is to replace the 22 or 24 balls in the ball screw is with a larger size ball. Ford list 5 or 6 sets, but you'll not find any these days. They are measured to 5 decimals. There have been post on this subject if you care to search.

Sounds a bit daunting I know, so probably best to buy outright. If you go that route, look for a quick ratio conversion like 12.7:1.

Geoff.

steering1.thumb.jpg.9a9d97c286338ec4c621eed0edcffe57.jpg

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I'm going in a different direction. When I bought my 73  there was a terrible vibration that I could only feel thru the steering wheel when within a certain speed range. Actually felt like the steering wheel would "wobble" back and forth, especially when cold. After going through all the motions and aggravation that you have been thru, it was finally diagnosed and fixed as a worn tailshaft bushing in the trans.  Last place to check since I could only feel it in the steering wheel and nowhere else, not even on the shifter.

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Tires are all brand new, replaced a bad rim and all have been balanced.  Front end is fine. I checked the 3 bolts that hold the steering box to the frame rail and they are tight.  Could there be a problem inside the steering box ?  Does this sound like an alignment problem ?  Thanks

 

steve

 

New tires and rim do not guarantee that one isn't bad. I had two bad brand new tires on my Outback and had to bring the car back to the tire place twice before they finally listened. Ran the car on jackstands and you could see just how out of round the tires were. Balance was good on them too, but if they had a road force balancer, it would have shown up immediately.

 

 

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Just my thought on it. If all else checks out front and back, then I would for sure look at the steering box. I take it is power? without re-reading, I'm not sure.

There could be a few things inside that I think might cause a problem. The sector shaft bearing shot, the sector shaft "teeth" are badly worn or the rack piston is badly worn. However I think you would more likely feel the car wandering around more than shaking side to side. If the PS box is original, good chance it needs a rebuild anyway, so might be a good time to look at that option. You can buy a quick ratio already to bolt on. Several rebuilders out there to chose from.

Geoff.

It is power and both the steering box and pump leak a little fluid.  They are original to the car.  Don't want to keep throwing more money at this problem, but probably couldn't hurt to rebuild/replace those two components.  Thanks

steve

  Hello,

 

        FYI, checked the tire pressure cold yesterday and found that the tire/wheel in question had been over inflated at the tire shop t0 35PSI, other tires were all around 30 PSI.  Set all tires to 30 PSI and found the issue was somewhat less today.  I mispoke earlier when I said the steering wheel moved left/right.  After watching it very carefully today I noticed that it is more of a vibration felt in the steering wheel and front end of the vehicle.  Comes on at 39 mph, worse at 43, goes away at app. 45 mph. Definitely in the front end and not "seat of the pants". Next time I have the car in the air I will recheck all the front end components for "play" and both front wheels for horizontal and vertial movement.  Any other suggestions appreciated  ..... thanks.

 

steve

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Just my thought on it. If all else checks out front and back, then I would for sure look at the steering box. I take it is power? without re-reading, I'm not sure.

There could be a few things inside that I think might cause a problem. The sector shaft bearing shot, the sector shaft "teeth" are badly worn or the rack piston is badly worn. However I think you would more likely feel the car wandering around more than shaking side to side. If the PS box is original, good chance it needs a rebuild anyway, so might be a good time to look at that option. You can buy a quick ratio already to bolt on. Several rebuilders out there to chose from.

Geoff.

It is power and both the steering box and pump leak a little fluid.  They are original to the car.  Don't want to keep throwing more money at this problem, but probably couldn't hurt to rebuild/replace those two components.  Thanks

steve

  Hello,

 

        FYI, checked the tire pressure cold yesterday and found that the tire/wheel in question had been over inflated at the tire shop t0 35PSI, other tires were all around 30 PSI.  Set all tires to 30 PSI and found the issue was somewhat less today.  I mispoke earlier when I said the steering wheel moved left/right.  After watching it very carefully today I noticed that it is more of a vibration felt in the steering wheel and front end of the vehicle.  Comes on at 39 mph, worse at 43, goes away at app. 45 mph. Definitely in the front end and not "seat of the pants". Next time I have the car in the air I will recheck all the front end components for "play" and both front wheels for horizontal and vertial movement.  Any other suggestions appreciated  ..... thanks.

 

steve

 That's good that you may have the situation narrowed down. Get's frustrating for sure only to find it's something 'simple'. Been there, done that! As have all of us I'm sure.

On the steering box, look for a leak around the pitman arm. If it's leaking then for sure the seal area has been compromised. If not, try to clean as much muck as you can from the seal area with brake cleaner or similar. That may help it last a bit longer while you save up for a rebuilt box.

Geoff.

 

EDIT: I took a pic of what a worn out sector shaft looks like in the area of the 2 seals. Dirt get in and then acts as sandpaper scoring the cast steel. If there was a dirt seal as on the input shaft, this damage would be less likely and would save very costly repairs. This one was a major leaker.

 

IMG-1010.jpg

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I know you replaced a drum on the rear but did you check the rotors. Had a similar problem with a 2012 F150.  Had a slight vibration in the front end between 30 to 40 mph.  Above 40 it would almost disappear but you could still feel it a little. Tried all the usual things to find the problem, wheel balance, rotation, checked all the steering components.  Out of warranty but took back to dealer and the even they couldn't find the problem.  While at the dealer noted that the front pads were getting low.  Took back home and decided to go ahead with a brake job over the weekend.  During the process of replacing the driver side I found that the rotor was warped.  I had no pulsing in the brake pedal when the problem was occurring.  Got new rotor and problem was solved.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Are you driving the car far enough to get the tires warmed up? Some tire are more susceptible to flat spotting than others when parked, and have to warm up some.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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Are you driving the car far enough to get the tires warmed up? Some tire are more susceptible to flat spotting than others when parked, and have to warm up some.

Hello,

 

      Thanks for all the great advice !  I will look into all of this over the next few weeks.

steve

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One more question concerning the tail shaft bushing in the C6 trans. One mechanic that was trying to locate the vibration told me it was the tail shaft bushing. This was based on the following : he grabbed the driveshaft just aft of the tail shaft housing and was able to move the tail shaft up and down app. 1/8" to a 1/4 " . He said that was the problem, worn tail shaft bushing. I had the car at an old school transmission shop. The owner did the same thing and stated, "no problem here, normal movement" Said it has to have some play in it or it would wear out prematurely. After looking at varius sources it seems like there should be no play, that is what the u-joints are for. Who is right ? Thanks

 

Steve

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By any chance have you tried swapping the front tires to the rear to see if the condition changes? It may narrow the troubleshooting down a little if the symptoms move or if they don't then you know it's probably not the tire that causing the vibration. Good luck.

 

Tom

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By any chance have you tried swapping the front tires to the rear to see if the condition changes? It may narrow the troubleshooting down a little if the symptoms move or if they don't then you know it's probably not the tire that causing the vibration. Good luck.

 

Tom

Hi,

 

    Have not because they are brand new tires and 3 good wheels along with one brand new wheel. I have 235's in the front on 15x7 wheels and 245's in the rear on 15x8 wheels. Not sure if I could put those up front.  If I can I might try that at some point.  Thanks

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Yesterday, I went to a car show about 45 miles away, so a nice drive to and from (except for crappy weather on the way home!)

Now, I know all the front end on my car is good and I too have new tires, BFG's on newish Magnum 500's. 235 x60x14 on 7'

s in front and 245x60x14 on 8's in the rear. However, I noticed a slight vibration that was not apparent before hand. Even my daughter noticed it and she's for sure a gear head! I suspect a wheel has thrown a stick-on weight. Or one or more of my wheels was not balanced correctly, but that is unlikely as the vibration was not that apparent before. 

As it's getting close to putting the car away for winter and I plan on dropping the rear axle for a rebuild/service, I'll take my wheels back to be checked, ready for spring and that can't come soon enough!!

Message here, check your wheel weights and rebalance if necessary.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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One more question concerning the  tail shaft bushing in the C6 trans.  One mechanic that was trying to locate the vibration told me it was the tail shaft bushing.  This was based  on the following :  he grabbed the driveshaft just aft of the tail shaft housing and was able to move the tail shaft up and down app.  1/8" to a 1/4 " .  He said that was the problem, worn tail shaft bushing.  I had the car at an old school transmission shop.  The owner did the same thing and stated, "no problem here, normal movement" Said it has to have some play in it or it would wear out prematurely.  After looking at varius sources it seems like there should be no play, that is what the u-joints are for.  Who is right ?  Thanks

 

Steve

No play. The yoke must fit as a glove, the bushing is there to do what bushings do. not support or compensate any play.

Just redid my 71 driveshaft and u-bolts must have zero play other than be able to move freely and smoothly in the perpendicular plane to the shaft for the rear and on two axes for the front one. Any u-bolt with play will generate vibrations are are likely to break under load or at sustained speed very quickly. If the front one breaks that can lead to a very dangerous situation too.

 

If u-bolts bearings are worn, usually when one of the needles breaks, the play should be small at first. if more, as you describe, its been neglected/ignored for way too long.

 

If you do the fix yourself, I'm sure many manufacturers do good parts, but I know after replacing both sets of my mustangs, that Moog offers very good quality. These are inexpensive ( +- $15 a piece) and can be replaced in matter of minutes if you do not restore/paint the shaft.

 

Know that you do not need special tools other than sockets if you like me do not have a big enough vice to press them out (I do since this weekend).

In case its your first time, if of any help, here's the step my step procedure that I did for my old rusty 71 driveshaft 3 or 4 weeks ago.

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-fabrice-s-429cj-71-project?page=36

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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By any chance have you tried swapping the front tires to the rear to see if the condition changes? It may narrow the troubleshooting down a little if the symptoms move or if they don't then you know it's probably not the tire that causing the vibration. Good luck.

 

Tom

Hi,

 

    Have not because they are brand new tires and 3 good wheels along with one brand new wheel. I have 235's in the front on 15x7 wheels and 245's in the rear on 15x8 wheels. Not sure if I could put those up front.  If I can I might try that at some point.  Thanks

 

 

I'm running 255/60-15 on the front with 15x8 wheels, and could probably go larger. Swap them front to back.

 

 

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By any chance have you tried swapping the front tires to the rear to see if the condition changes? It may narrow the troubleshooting down a little if the symptoms move or if they don't then you know it's probably not the tire that causing the vibration. Good luck.

 

Tom

Hi,

 

    Have not because they are brand new tires and 3 good wheels along with one brand new wheel. I have 235's in the front on 15x7 wheels and 245's in the rear on 15x8 wheels. Not sure if I could put those up front.  If I can I might try that at some point.  Thanks

 

 

I'm running 255/60-15 on the front with 15x8 wheels, and could probably go larger. Swap them front to back.

 

 

As always great advice and help !!! Anyone know where you can get an inexspensive tail shaft bushing puller ?  I would like to pull the tail shaft bushing without removing the tailpiece ?  Thanks again.

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