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Just got a text from a friend that has built dozens of Mustangs. I asked how long to wet sand and buff to remove orange peel. He said 10-15 hours. Hmm. Guess the bodyshop owner wants our Mach 1 gone. 

Brett

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Brett, 

first, congratulations to your finished paint job. It is always an overwhelming feeling when it's done and you see it the first time. And I can understand your feelings watching it the second time. You want it good and you paid for it. From the one picture of the rear quarter I must say that is too much orange peel and if the whole car looks like this... that's not a result of a good, experienced professionell painter. What Kilgon said about ist absolutely correct. What your paint guy said is BS. It isn't a factor of money If your clear coat have to look good although higher quality paint costs more. It is more a factor of the paint guy who ist not experienced enough and has not learned his lessons with a paint gun.

My painter was a professional painter from Mercedes Benz and painted the car in a climate controlled paint cabin I paid for. The car was prepared one day before painting in this cabin. The paint has absolutely no orange peel but here and there a tiny dust corn if you look at it in a certain angle of light like a picky pennypicker. My paint guy said that's how it goes but it is not a Problem. It is a matter of the so called finish he will do after the paint has completely dried out after months and when I assembled the car. Then he would need the car ONE day and it will be finished. The finish will be included in the price. To prove this he finished the hood with the TuTone paint. The result ist absolutely outstanding: flat and shiny like a mirror without any spots. 

So in a work of a professional painter a so called finish is and should normally always included. Surely, with such orange peel it will be some more work than with a flat surface. But that's his fault and should be his problem to do it right. That said I would nail him on the above said. 

But no matter was I said the car and its color looks great and the orange peel could be removed. As long as the paint work is not cloudy, no paint peeling, no overspray, no bubbling, it will be a matter of time and experience

Edited by timachone
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Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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Posted (edited)

I slept on it (not well). I am disappointed. And yes the whole car does have the orange peel. The passenger side rear quarter looked worse. Which may have been due to that being the shady side and no direct sunlight.

Back side of doors not painted. To keep dirt out or something along those lines as to why that happened.

Front fenders are not original and were from a non-Mach 1 Mustang. So the fender emblem holes are still there. This did not register while at the body shop, looking over the fresh paint. I recalled it later last evening and zoomed in on the pictures. Yup. Holes are still there. Wife remembers that conversation months ago and that they were to be filled. Can't wait to hear his response this a.m. when my wife texts him.

Passenger rear quarter should have been replaced. Bottom where it meets the rocker is bowed out 1/2". It shows up with paint. I never noticed it in primer and neither did the painter. I'm sure not many will notice. We'll live with that.

His solution for the front edge of the hood piece looks bad. We had 2 trim pieces. The straightest one was installed. Both had missing studs. The trim piece was "metal bonded" (glue) on. He then filled and blended with the hood. From a distance it looks like the trim piece is missing. We'll have to live with it.

From talking to two other friends and reading here I have come to understand that "cut and buff" post paint should be a matter of course for a paint job. Orange peel is quite common.

Driving into work this morning I started to get a little red under the collar thinking about the paint job. To this point I have had my wife be the contact point for this job. I wanted her to feel as though this really is her car and her decisions are how things will be done. I've stepped in when appropriate. So this morning I've came up with an idea. If he is reluctant to do anything. I'll let him know I won't be doing any work on the Mach 1 for a while. But it will be going to car shows on a trailer. Every one I can find for the next 12 months in my geographical area. With a big sign that says "judge my paint job that I paid XXX dollars for". The above listed items will be on the sign. Along with the paint shop name and address.

To quote my friends text from last night "if they'd put their cell phones down and stop taking smoke breaks, maybe they'd get some work done." This is funny to me because I can hear in my head,  my buddies Georgia drawl and his special way of sounding condescending.

The sign thing might be a bit harsh and over the top. Just irritated right now.

Edited by 72Mach168Cam
clarity.

Brett

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1 hour ago, 72Mach168Cam said:

I slept on it (not well). I am disappointed. And yes the whole car does have the orange peel. The passenger side rear quarter looked worse. Which may have been due to that being the shady side and no direct sunlight.

Back side of doors not painted. To keep dirt out or something along those lines as to why that happened.

Front fenders are not original and were from a non-Mach 1 Mustang. So the fender emblem holes are still there. This did not register while at the body shop, looking over the fresh paint. I recalled it later last evening and zoomed in on the pictures. Yup. Holes are still there. Wife remembers that conversation months ago and that they were to be filled. Can't wait to hear his response this a.m. when my wife texts him.

Passenger rear quarter should have been replaced. Bottom where it meets the rocker is bowed out 1/2". It shows up with paint. I never noticed it in primer and neither did the painter. I'm sure not many will notice. We'll live with that.

His solution for the front edge of the hood piece looks bad. We had 2 trim pieces. The straightest one was installed. Both had missing studs. The trim piece was "metal bonded" (glue) on. He then filled and blended with the hood. From a distance it looks like the trim piece is missing. We'll have to live with it.

From talking to two other friends and reading here I have come to understand that "cut and buff" post paint should be a matter of course for a paint job. Orange peel is quite common.

Driving into work this morning I started to get a little red under the collar thinking about the paint job. To this point I have had my wife be the contact point for this job. I wanted her to feel as though this really is her car and her decisions are how things will be done. I've stepped in when appropriate. So this morning I've came up with an idea. If he is reluctant to do anything. I'll let him know I won't be doing any work on the Mach 1 for a while. But it will be going to car shows on a trailer. Every one I can find for the next 12 months in my geographical area. With a big sign that says "judge my paint job that I paid XXX dollars for". The above listed items will be on the sign. Along with the paint shop name and address.

To quote my friends text from last night "if they'd put their cell phones down and stop taking smoke breaks, maybe they'd get some work done." This is funny to me because I can hear in my head,  my buddies Georgia drawl and his special way of sounding condescending.

The sign thing might be a bit harsh and over the top. Just irritated right now.

If he won't work with you I wouldn't hesitate to let the public know what kind of work he does and that he won't make his mistakes right.  You paid for a good looking paint job, not an orange peel paint job. I would also report him to the BBB, any other organizations in your area that list businesses and even on social media.   Call him out and see what happens.

Edited by Kilgon

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Ok, handling with a painter is always a sensitive thing. Don't ask me how I know... I would not go in with a sledge hammer conversation wise in this stadium. Although you could explode like a steam cooking pot try to handle with care! First try to explain in a friendly manner what are your concerns and overthink before you speak what you have to speak. 

All in all the finish in the paint job doesn't look too bad but it needs a good finish job! And there are always some spots which could be better and which were forgotten or showed the first time after paint. I think this is what every guy with a painted car here knows - every car has its hidden spots... But so they where also from the factory. I want to say you have to live with one or two imperfections which are not obvious for the first and the second watch and could only be known by the owner of that car until he shows it to a visitor. Otherwise it will be never known... But it should be not that obvious. 

What would piss me really off are the filled hood molding and the uneccessary holes in the fender! For a 71-73 Mustang lover it's simply not right. There are greater problems on the world than this but I would react the same. Its only a matter of time the hood molding shows cracks to the hood. He could have glued it onto the body without filling it and it would have looked like original. But why didn't you buy a better molding before teh job? 

The paint structure could be perfected and is only a matter of negotiations and then experienced handling. The color and its spread look fantastic! 

So go in the negotiations eeeeasy and see how it will evolve... If it will turn out bad you could pack out your steam hammer anyway. 

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Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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The car does look good, it just needs finished. No painter worth a damn stops at this point on a car of this caliber.  Wet sanding and buffing is the normal next step in the process.  Unless it’s a beater car that you run back and forth to work.  Better clearcoat does lay down nicer but so can cheaper clear if you shoot it properly.  And any clear can be sanded flat and buffed to a glass like finish.  I agree the hood will probably crack later down the road.  I don’t understand how bodyshops stay in business  doing work in this fashion. I spray all my stuff in a small 2 car garage and it comes out very nice.  No spray booth needed if you follow up with a nice cut and buff.  I would definitely have a talk with him. 80 hours for cut and buff is ridiculous.  15-20 hours should suffice.  Especially if it’s still in pieces like it is. 

Here’s a few pics of the last car i wet sanded and buffed  It’s a good bit of work but hoes fast if you know what you are doing  

 

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Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Very nice turtle5353! I read through that build and it helped plan ours.

After a couple of back and forth texts that were less than acceptable. The "manager" (a.k.a. my wife) of this project has informed the bodyshop to fix the emblem holes and we will hire a professional to wet sand and buff. He's had her Mach 1 for far too long and it is time it comes home.

Edited by 72Mach168Cam
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Brett

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If you guys were closer I would help ya out in a heartbeat.  Good luck in the rest of the build. 

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Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Kevin! Yourself and many, many members here have been a great help. I sure wish we all lived in the same town.

Edited by 72Mach168Cam
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Brett

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I've been following this thread sort of in the background so to speak. I know what you mean and it's frustrating when things just don't get done right. I could list a pile myself with my car's repaint and refit of parts, but that's not why I'm here posting today.

On your car, my only hope if the "kid" who painted it (he looks like a kid in the pic) put sufficient clear coat on to cope with removing half of it during wet sanding. If he blows through it, he'll have to clear it again and that may cause other problems. 

Anyway on the plus side, while I'm not a fan of green anything (unless it's a Grabber Lime Mach 1) that car is going to look awesome when finally done. Trust me, once all the "stuff" is back on it, you will love it.

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Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Thanks Geoff! I'm not a fan (normally) of green myself. But I agree it will look awesome. 

The kid said he applied 4 coats of clear. We plan on hiring someone else to cut and buff. We probably could handle the task ourselves. But I don't want to make a mistake. I'm ready to get wrenching. I usually do ok with that and am humble enough to own up to my own screw ups.

For the life of me I can't remember why on earth we did not seek out and buy a "perfect" hood trim piece. 

Brett

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35 minutes ago, 72Mach168Cam said:

Thanks Geoff! I'm not a fan (normally) of green myself. But I agree it will look awesome. 

The kid said he applied 4 coats of clear. We plan on hiring someone else to cut and buff. We probably could handle the task ourselves. But I don't want to make a mistake. I'm ready to get wrenching. I usually do ok with that and am humble enough to own up to my own screw ups.

For the life of me I can't remember why on earth we did not seek out and buy a "perfect" hood trim piece. 

Bret, talking of the hood trim piece, that is probably the one aspect of my cars repaint that pissed me off the most. The left side outer little attachment post, tiny little bugger, was broken off and I knew that. The problem was the painter/body guy had the entire front end slightly off line, so instead of readjusting the fenders and hood as he should have, he just "adjusted" the trim piece and used body adhesive to glue it in place. The result is I have a large gap between the hood and trim on that side and there's NOTHING I can do about it without replacing it completely and hoping the paint will match and that isn't to likely. The hood black-out is also wrong, but that's on me for forgetting the the trim piece was not yet on when I told him to set the front of the black-out 2" back. It is of course now 3" back. Oh well we see many like that and no-one really notices except people like us.

As for a perfect replacement OE trim piece, I had one, but a guy offered me way too much money, so I sold it, big mistake!

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Posted (edited)

The Project Manager contacted several bodyshops and detail shops today. No bodyshop will touch this car with a ten foot pole. But a few did recommend the same detail shop that does wet sand and buff.

The detail shop that was recommended was nice to my wife over the phone and offered to come over and give a quote when we get it home.

Every shop she called except collision repair outfits the wet sand/ buffing IS performed post paint for every car they paint.

My wife did have a nice and detailed conversation with the owner of one of the high end bodyshops in town. It takes him 40-60 hours to wet sand / buff. This is for SHOW CARS. The kind that have velvet ropes attached to shiny metal poles surrounding them. 

I doubt my wife's Mach 1 will be the only paint job that is sent out the door this way. Long term it will not be good for business. 

Edited by 72Mach168Cam
clarification.

Brett

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So, please remind me (us) why this painter is NOT going to finish the job for the quoted price? You don't do a 2 stage paint job and not cut and buff. While I'm no expert on painting cars, I have several friends who are and I'm damn sure they would agree. If you wanted an original 1971-73 appearing paint job, you would have use a single stage enamel or similar for that "factory painted" look.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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Nice to see that he will do that for you.  I would ask him if there is anything you can do to help cut the cost down while still getting a  good looking finish.  Never hurts to ask.   

I was able to work out a good deal with my painter on the bases that I lay out his business card at any cruise in or show that I go to.  He did mess the hood up on the stencil and offer to redo at no charge.  After seeing it for a few times I sorted like it so I told him I was fine with the way it is.   He said if at any time I change my mind to let him know.  This is what good business does for their customers.  He knows the power of word of mouth and what it can do.

Stencil is correct at front but he ran it inward at the rear.  Other than that the rest of the car turned out great.  After seeing it a few times I like the way it fades in at the rear.  Haven't had any body notice or at least say anything about it yet.

20191220_100514_resized.thumb.jpg.496a098d6688921728269401f79e0dbc.jpg

 

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Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Stanglover said:

So, please remind me (us) why this painter is NOT going to finish the job for the quoted price? You don't do a 2 stage paint job and not cut and buff. While I'm no expert on painting cars, I have several friends who are and I'm damn sure they would agree. If you wanted an original 1971-73 appearing paint job, you would have use a single stage enamel or similar for that "factory painted" look.

He said that if we wanted the orange peel gone it would be an additional 80 hours labor ($5200).

The agreed upon $18k turned into $19100 two days ago. After he said he had some additional hours in sanding just before the paint booth. I agreed to the extra $1100. But I won't do $5200. I even asked what could we get for 40 hours. He balked at that, stating that few hours would only remove the peaks and still leave texture.

He said we paid for a factory looking paint job and that is what we received.

 

Edited by 72Mach168Cam
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Brett

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Beautiful Mustang Kilgon!!

 The painter of our car should be the one to "finish" our car not some detail shop. Just before our painter painted the body I expressed my hopes that it turns out well enough to "show" the car and like you have business cards available. Also if we did put a poster board together that his shop would be listed as paint and bodywork. Unless he changes his mind in the very near future, which I doubt, I won't be recommending his shop.

I get the impression our painter is pushing us to pay and get lost.

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Brett

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7 hours ago, 72Mach168Cam said:

He said that if we wanted the orange peel gone it would be an additional 80 hours labor ($5200).

The agreed upon $18k turned into $19100 two days ago. After he said he had some additional hours in sanding just before the paint booth. I agreed to the extra $1100. But I won't do $5200. I even asked what could we get for 40 hours. He balked at that, stating that few hours would only remove the peaks and still leave texture.

He said we paid for a factory looking paint job and that is what we received.

 

Brett, 

really?!? For that price and if there were no major body repairs included the finish or cut and buff some said MUST have been included! That's not a 5.000 Dollar-job! You gave him 19.000 !!! That's a whole lot money and for that price you shoud get a good, even finish. He laid down 3 layers of clear and screwed that up that way?!? My painter laid down 2 layers of clear and it is almost even like glass. Without any cut and buff! Man, that is way too much paint for this outcome. 80 hours labor for cut and buff?!? What will he do in that time?!? That's a whole week including saturday and sunday for one car! Yes, our cars came from the factory with some orange peel here and there but not overall and you went to a so called professional for a good, remarkable paint shop. Sorry Brett, but this guy has pulled you over the barrel! As before said, in this price range the cut and buff should be included! And that should be done from the painter itself. Most other paint shops will not do the work from someone other. Man, reading this makes me slowly angry and really feeling sad for! It's always the same with (most) that paint guys... 

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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Here, my example, freshly painted, without cutt and buff, 1 layer primer, 2 layers base, 2 layers clear, all in one noon: 

 

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  • Like 2

Tim

 

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly :runninpony:

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