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Battery apron replaced....fender mounting holes?


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I have the original apron to use as a template.  I am thinking a combination of drilling and dremel i can make something reasonably decent looking.  Is there a preferred way to make these holes?  Thx in advance

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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Be a lot easier and a lot less work to just replace.  You can get a new one at Ohio Mustang for $50.

 

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=327

I did replace the entire part BUT all of the ones I looked at have the fender mounting areas as "blank".  These are the slot and square hole that use the spring type plate nut (or captive nut, not sure of the actual name).  That is an older pic before welded in.

20190825-172609-resized.jpg

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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Be a lot easier and a lot less work to just replace.  You can get a new one at Ohio Mustang for $50.

 

http://www.ohiomustang.com/store/order_page.asp?itemid=327

Here's a cupla pics as it is now20190928-181616.jpg

 

20190928-181328.jpg

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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Sorry about that - I thought you were trying to make an apron. When I did mine I laid the fender on and matched the existing bolt holes first and then mark where the new ones needed to go. Then you can use your old one as a template from there.

 

As far a cutting the new ones in I used a drill, dremel and file. Have to remember the fender will cover these so they don't have to be perfect. I'm for sure there are others who do it differently.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Sorry about that - I thought you were trying to make an apron.    When I did mine I laid the fender on and matched the existing bolt holes first and then mark where the new ones needed to go.  Then you can use your old one as a template from there. 

 

As far a cutting the new ones in I used a drill,  dremel and file.  Have to remember the fender will cover these so they don't have to be perfect.  I'm for sure there are others who do it differently.

Even though part of my job is communicating doesn't mean I always do it well!  I could have been more clear (pic would have made it clear but i am not a big forums user). I am a DIY type person so i plan to do it all myself.....except engine related machining.....so i am going to be asking lots of questions and advice.

 

Thx...I guess i will be drilling and dremeling!

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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No problem. Pics always help. There is all kind of help available here. You might wait a little before getting started to see if anyone else chimes in with a better way.

 

Like a lot things, there isn't always a right way or wrong way - but sometimes there is an easier way.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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You did a nice job on your install there.

I've just begun removal of mine tonight, and noticed the absence of the holes in my replacement panel. I remember someone else mentioning this in another thread.

 

Just curious, what method did you use to break all the spot welds? There's no shortage of them, that's for sure.

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You did a nice job on your install there.

I've just begun removal of mine tonight, and noticed the absence of the holes in my replacement panel.  I remember someone else mentioning this in another thread.

 

Just curious, what method did you use to break all the spot welds? There's no shortage of them, that's for sure.

I used a spot weld cutter. It is basically a piloted spot face bit. I bought 2 sets of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pc-HSCO-Titanium-Spot-Weld-Drill-Bit-Cutter-Flat-Shaft-1-4-5-16-3-8-Cobalt/293127453962?pageci=b6125e23-a17d-479a-a241-cbfb3e846c37

 

I recommend using a punch if you have one. Not required but makes it cleaner. I do have a question for others. I am questioning my weld quality. Is this pic ana acceptable weld?

 

20191016-191832.jpg

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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Doesn't look like your hot enough. and not enough weld in there. Don't be afraid to turn it up a little on these panels. There is little to no chance of warpage and they are pretty thick. You want to fill your plug weld completely and not see the circle of the edge of the hole. When you hit it with the grinder to level it down you shouldn't even be able to tell there was a weld there. Grind they black off and hit it again but fill the entire hole, you want both base materials to melt together, not just melt wire into the hole.

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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Getting through some of these spot welds is a bit of a chore. I'm having to use different tools to get the apron loose.

Many of the spot welds aren't perfectly round, often oblong and upwards of a half inch long in places.

 

Down the shock tower edge I used a 3" cutoff wheel to cut down the welds.

Across the top edge I used a Milwaukee shockwave 7/8" hole saw. (uses a smaller pilot bit, looks to be 3/16" bit). I've also used drill bits and a grinder stone in a drill.

I may order actual spot weld cutter bits today, just didn't feel like waiting for them to arrive to start the job.

 

I'm having to do mine with the engine in the car as well which makes it a little tougher.

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Getting through some of these spot welds is a bit of a chore. I'm having to use different tools to get the apron loose.

Many of the spot welds aren't perfectly round, often oblong and upwards of a half inch long in places.

 

Down the shock tower edge I used a 3" cutoff wheel to cut down the welds.

Across the top edge I used a Milwaukee shockwave 7/8" hole saw. (uses a smaller pilot bit, looks to be 3/16" bit). I've also used drill bits and a grinder stone in a drill.

I may order actual spot weld cutter bits today, just didn't feel like waiting for them to arrive to start the job.

 

I'm having to do mine with the engine in the car as well which makes it a little tougher.

 

Check your local Harbor Freight.  They did carry them.  If you buy from there get at least 2 of them.  They wear out fast.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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My town, Heath just opened up a new Harbor Freight store a couple weeks ago.

I did go there and check, they aren't carrying the spot weld bits at this time.

They did have the 1/2" Bandfile Belt sander, but looked really cheap. And neither Lowes or Home Depot carry those mini belt sanders yet.

 

I won't get any time tonight or tomorrow to work on it, but I'll have the old apron out of there on Sunday. I've got half of the welds broke now.

The hole saw is designed for thin metal and does a really clean job. The 3" cutoff wheel is effective, but slower and creates a lot of dust and debris.

 

I always had plans of doing all of this work slow and methodical, but my father recently put a bug in my ear that's altered my timeline a bit.

 

He told me he'd like to drive the car once before he kicks the bucket. ( he's a month away from his 79th birthday, and had quadruple bypass surgery last winter ).  He got excited when I bought the car back in 2015, but he didn't think I would take this long to get started on it. He raced cars in his youth, and loves old fords. He helped me do most of the work on my first 72 Mustang. It also reminds him of the 69 Cougar that he owned.

 

My issue is I work a lot of overtime, I have 6 grandkids, help coach little league ball, and go to all of their other sports and school activities. And we also ride and race motocross and GP's when we can fit it in.

 

But I'm committed and into it now. The Mustang is getting done.

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https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-double-sided-rotary-spot-weld-cutter-63657.html?_br_psugg_q=spot+weld+cutter

 

I tried the harbor freight items at the link above. It came in handy but i prefer the spotfacing type (ebay link is dead, see the amazon link below from hemikiller).

 

i also used the ebay ones to help cut in the holes for the fender mounting bolts (still in work). Lots of ways to get it done and i have a single data point for reference so keep that in mind. Others on here are much more experienced. Mine worked well enough that i would not hesitate to do it again (even though my welds kinda sucked).

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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I stopped using spot weld cutters, as the "hole saw" types leave the "nugget" for you to grind off creating a lot of extra work. I had switched about halfway through doing my 71 to using a spot weld drill, which removes the nugget for the most part, with only minimal cleanup needed. I bought mine from a body supply house, but this is the style I'm talking about. It helps to center punch the weld.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-10050A-Drill-Titanium-Coated/dp/B000MOKBTE/ref=sr_1_36?keywords=spot+weld+cutter&qid=1571407221&sr=8-36

 

Sometimes it's just easier to grind the spot welded flange down paper thin with a flap or grinding wheel in a 4 1/2" grinder and then use a chisel to pry the panels apart. You can also get a spotweld panel ripper if you have an air chisel, or use one of the manual ones.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Steck-20015-Seam-Buster/dp/B000JFJMJ6/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/130-1465162-7814324?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000JFJMJ6&pd_rd_r=bba89964-b6a0-4963-a0c9-b7c76823d02b&pd_rd_w=TOqF7&pd_rd_wg=aLigp&pf_rd_p=09627863-9889-4290-b90a-5e9f86682449&pf_rd_r=MEQB4GQ87XTN9GZ7V0SK&psc=1&refRID=MEQB4GQ87XTN9GZ7V0SK

 

https://www.amazon.com/Steck-Manufacturing-20016-Right-Buster/dp/B0015DU8QW/ref=pd_bxgy_263_2/130-1465162-7814324?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0015DU8QW&pd_rd_r=10d769f5-6fe2-42b5-a610-c4fc03bb5c61&pd_rd_w=knKM7&pd_rd_wg=YLvkE&pf_rd_p=09627863-9889-4290-b90a-5e9f86682449&pf_rd_r=SED0S3Y2KDYQJ5X0CY1N&psc=1&refRID=SED0S3Y2KDYQJ5X0CY1N

 

 

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A little progress update from my last post:

Before I begin, I spent a good deal of time taking measurements and studying over my front end subframe alignment. Not the easiest task, that's for sure.

Trying to be sure that I am getting good spots to measure from is what I probably spent the most time on. I found the alignment holes back near the hood hinges.

I did the cross diagonal measurements to the alignment holes on the far ends of the radiator support.

 

I also transferred a line from the front edge of the rear holes, down the side of the car and then measured both sides to the front face of the car body (cab). Measured the same on both sides off the face. So I developed a little confidence that I could measure from them. I installed all-thread studs in the holes to give my tape measure something to grab onto. I was also able to pull a string from side to side, to establish a center point.

I also stuck my magnetic laser level on the sides of the cab, pointing the laser up, and then measured to find the center of the car with a piece of tape on the windshield. I then pulled a string across between shock towers, measured from vertical flat to vertical flat again, to establish a center.

In the end I found that my nose is kicked to the passenger side 1/4".

I also checked the height of the radiator support corners from the underside of the frame-up, to make sure they are the same. They are within 1/16".

 

Not happy about the 1/4" offset on the radiator support, but at this point I don't have the time to send it out to the frame shop to make it right. I'll just have to make adjustments as I reassemble to try and keep things in alignment for now. Down the road when I eventually do a full tear down and repaint, it'll get done then.

 

IMG-3460.jpg

 

IMG-8626.jpg

 

IMG-8628.jpg

 

Last Sunday I got the old fender apron removed.

Since then I've been prepping for the replacement. Got a good dry fit on it today, and will weld it in tomorrow.

 

IMG-3448.jpg

 

IMG-3457.jpg

 

IMG-8621.jpg

 

IMG-8623.jpg

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By the way, I recall reading in one of the other threads about guys having issues with the sizing of the replacement battery tray's that are available. Just so that I don't have to bounce between threads to get an answer, does anybody have the scoop on getting the correct replacement tray ?

 

Thanks.

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One observation I had was the vertical interface/mate to the radiator support was no where near the original. The new one was further out and at an angle relative to the original. I used a magnetic inclinometer and the new one is vertical. I had to fill holes in the radiator support.

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I bought a new battery tray. I had concerns when I ordered it after reading reviews from other buyers about the tray sizing.

I received it, and thought I better size it up tonight before prepping it for primer and paint.

 

Here's what I ended up with:

I have a Sears Diehard battery, but it has the bottom battery clamp mount's , or whatever you would call them. It makes the total width of my battery 7-1/4" wide.

The battery tray is only 7".

So of course, as I feared. It doesn't fit.

 

I'm sure I'm not the first to get snagged on this. Are there any options besides buying a different battery without the lower side mounts?

 

IMG-3462.jpg

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I ran into this problem quit a few years ago on F150. I ended up filing the bottom flanges off the sides of the battery. I used a wood plane to do it and shaved a little at a time until I got it to fit.

Kilgon

 

 

"The only dumb question is the one not asked"

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Just catching up on some of the posts. 

Looks like you did get one of the reinforcements for the battery tray which is great. 

On the battery tray. If you get the Daniel Carpenter repo he uses the original Ford tooling so there should be no issue. 

Also you can go to the Ford dealer and get a Motorcraft battery that is the correct size and posts on the correct side also. I got one for my 73 Mach 1 and it sat in the Mustang Owner's Museum for 6 months without charging and it started the car up with no jump box. 

I posted the measurements for the front end couple years ago. The computer they were on died so I could not post again. There are tooling holes in the cowl and radiator support that were used to locate everything at the assembly plant that are used to position the parts. 

While you have the fenders off go to store and get you some stainless steel scrubber pads and cut off section and stuff in the cowl drains on each side. Also put 1/4" box wire mesh under your plastic cowl vents on the top of the cowl. This prevents mice from getting in there and building nest in cowl or the heater box.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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That's great advice on the mouse proofing steps on the cowl. With my car being a 20 year garage find, my heater blower box was home to mice at one time. My cowl and blower had a pretty good collection of acorn shells and nesting. My biggest fear is them chewing on the wiring. They'll chew into anything. I keep plenty of glue traps down and even keep one in my car on the floor.

 

I've been reading back through a lot of the old post and seen mentions of Daniel Carpenter parts, but wasn't aware of the website or the availability. I just pulled up their website. Again, thanks for the info. I've been relying on Ohio Mustang, CJPony parts, Dallas Mustang (now gone), and of course Ebay. Awesome to have good parts sources.

 

My confidence on successfully rebuilding my car has developed considerably, not having to fear tackling different project issues. You guys make it all too easy.

In correcting my cars issues, especially the body work, I'm trying to stick with my original parts as best I can, but you do reach a point where you just have to utilize replacement parts, and thank goodness, they are available, and decent quality.

 

So far I've straightened damage to my radiator support and driver's side front fender apron, replaced the passenger side apron, and battery tray.

I had to replace my driver side bumper bracket, as mine was bent up considerably and cracked. Now working on the headlight assemblies and grille supports.

 

I've already begun to shift my thinking to my tail light panel, as mine, like so many others has some rust holes around the lights, and pretty good rust along the bottom. Up to this point there was no way I would consider replacing the whole panel, and intended to try and salvage and repair. But again, after reading, watching the video's, and doing a major body panel replacement up front,... I can do this, and it will turn out very good.

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Today I took a look at my old rusted battery tray, presuming it's original, and noticed that both sides had been pried out, probably to permit a battery with lower mounts like my Die Hard. The hold down clamps were missing and it needed a new battery when I bought the car.

I went ahead and prepped and primered the new tray. At this point, I'm satisfied the issue is the battery, and not the part.

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