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Does your car have subframe connectors? They might help. Is the plate present under the driveshaft tunnel that is unique to convertables and are all the bolts present and tight? Is there any slop in the steering center link, tie rods or the strut rods to the LCA's?

 

Cowl shake is a result of an engineering flaw-it happens in many convertibles and IF there is a solution, it is often a modification away from stock.

 

Are the springs all stock or have you stiffened some or all of them?

http://www.7173mustangs.com/gallery/1_01_07_15_8_53_18.png

 

"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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The cowl braces and shock tower caps are correct. Only deviation from stock I see is the use of nylock nuts vs the factory flange nuts.

THanks for all the info.  All front end parts were replaced 4 years ago, the stiffening plate under the car is present, I installed new leaf springs  a year ago, just stock replacements.  The shocks are KYB, gas/hydraulic standard fit for my car.

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The cowl braces and shock tower caps are correct. Only deviation from stock I see is the use of nylock nuts vs the factory flange nuts.

THanks for all the info.  All front end parts were replaced 4 years ago, the stiffening plate under the car is present, I installed new leaf springs  a year ago, just stock replacements.  The shocks are KYB, gas/hydraulic standard fit for my car.

No sub frame connectors and everything else is stock.

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Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?

Hi,

 

Thanks for your info.   I don't think a video would capture the vibration but I will drive later today and see if I can do that.  THanks

Steve

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Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?

Hi,

 

Thanks for your info.   I don't think a video would capture the vibration but I will drive later today and see if I can do that.  THanks

Steve

If you have a go pro or a small video camera you can mount under the car you might see something. The front suspension on a Mustang is scary to watch on a video under the car shows how weak it really is.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Over the years I have owned 7 mustang convertibles and never had any kind of vibration issues. Yes there were issues in some of the newer Mustangs and they actually put a device in the trunk to kill the harmonic vibration you were told about. 

I worked in the lawn equipment industry for several years. The garden tillers we sold to Craftsman had a horrible harmonic vibration in the handle bars. The solution was what people thought was a brush guard on the front of the high end model. There was a cross bar that had the Craftsman name on it. The position of that bar up and down and the thickness of the bar is what killed the harmonic vibration and solved the issue. 

If the issue is a harmonic vibration has to be coming from engine, transmission, drive shaft or some rotating component. The body cannot make the vibration. 

I wish I were near you to take a ride in the car. Might be something that is normal and just new to you. Can you shoot a video to show the vibration?

Hi,

 

Thanks for your info.   I don't think a video would capture the vibration but I will drive later today and see if I can do that.  THanks

Steve

If you have a go pro or a small video camera you can mount under the car you might see something. The front suspension on a Mustang is scary to watch on a video under the car shows how weak it really is.

Hello, Drove it today with the top up made no difference at all.  The cyclic vibration is definitely in the steering wheel only, not felt anywhere else.  Not in the body, seat or pedals.  It comes on then fades away as slow as 20 mph and is at its worse at 40 -50.  It feels like something in the front tires/wheels/suspension.  No clue at this point.  I will be taking it to a shop in a couple of weeks, I'll post any new information here.  Thanks for your help !

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A cyclic vibration usually is caused by at least two rotating components being out of balance or out of round. They are rotating at different speeds and can cancel each other out and then both vibrate as they go in and out of phase. Makes it even more difficult to diagnose the cause.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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I am sure you have swapped out the front tires to see if it is them? Did you check the center hole diameter to see if they fit the hubs to center the wheels?

In racing you get what is called caster vibration but I doubt you could put enough caster into the front end to cause on this model. The same thing happens with a shopping cart when the front wheel goes crazy shaking back and forth. 

I did go to the internet and found a pretty informative video that goes through most areas you should be looking at. The cure for this car was to add braces that kill or change the frequency of the vibration through the body. It is on a Buick but like I said previously we had same issue with a garden tiller and did similar to change the frequency of the machine and stop the vibrations. 

They do show checking hub, tire, wheel run out and also balancing the drums and rotors if you have disc. 

We had a frequency generator at the lawn mower plant. We could put components on the machine and accelerate the failure of the part to see where it would fail. One component on a mower that is considered very critical is of course the blade. Each batch of blades got tested. You could make a mower blade break in half in 3 min. on the tester if there were any tool marks that concentrated the stress. Parts were rejected and tool mark fixed to eliminate the issue. 

This video will give you areas to ask your shop to check closely. 

 

 

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I've not gone back to check your earlier thread on this or stuck my nose into this one, but I don't remember if you mentioned what wheel rims you have on your car. I'm assuming factory with hub caps, BUT if by chance you have Magnum 500's, likely aftermarket, then these wheels MUST be balanced on a centering adaptor. One cannot use the wheel center to mount on a balancing machine. The hole is just from the stamping process and is NOT machined to center it. 

Earlier this summer, I bought a set of new BFG's from a local guy and when I drove the car the vibration was terrible. Knowing what the problem was, I took the car to another tire shop where they balanced them properly, no more vibrations.

I just thought I'd mention that.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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I've not gone back to check your earlier thread on this or stuck my nose into this one, but I don't remember if you mentioned what wheel rims you have on your car. I'm assuming factory with hub caps, BUT if by chance you have Magnum 500's, likely aftermarket, then these wheels MUST be balanced on a centering adaptor. One cannot use the wheel center to mount on a balancing machine. The hole is just from the stamping process and is NOT machined to center it. 

Earlier this summer, I bought a set of new BFG's from a local guy and when I drove the car the vibration was terrible. Knowing what the problem was, I took the car to another tire shop where they balanced them properly, no more vibrations.

I just thought I'd mention that.

Geoff.

Geoff,

In the video link I posted he shows the adapter to use for the Magnum 500 and in this case the GM aluminum wheels need it. 

That is one reason I do not like the Mag. 500 there is nothing to center it on the hubs but the lug nut holes and that is not very good.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I've not gone back to check your earlier thread on this or stuck my nose into this one, but I don't remember if you mentioned what wheel rims you have on your car. I'm assuming factory with hub caps, BUT if by chance you have Magnum 500's, likely aftermarket, then these wheels MUST be balanced on a centering adaptor. One cannot use the wheel center to mount on a balancing machine. The hole is just from the stamping process and is NOT machined to center it. 

Earlier this summer, I bought a set of new BFG's from a local guy and when I drove the car the vibration was terrible. Knowing what the problem was, I took the car to another tire shop where they balanced them properly, no more vibrations.

I just thought I'd mention that.

Geoff.

Geoff,

In the video link I posted he shows the adapter to use for the Magnum 500 and in this case the GM aluminum wheels need it. 

That is one reason I do not like the Mag. 500 there is nothing to center it on the hubs but the lug nut holes and that is not very good.

 David, yes for sure the Magnums are a PITA. The amount of weight needed for each wheel was very different, from about 1 oz to 6ozs. and that is the difference with the rims themselves. Egg shaped holes is why I had to buy a new set a few years back. The reason, people insist on using impact wrenches to tighten them without allowing the lug nuts to center themselves. Always do these by hand, then torque.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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In a previous thread on the same subject, he states he has Magnum 500 rims and replaced one.

 

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-steering-vibration?pid=354660#pid354660

 Yes, I seem to recall that now. Thanks for searching that and posting the link.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello,

 

Just catching up on these most recent posts. When I last had the Magnum 500 wheels balanced I told the tech that they had to be balanced "lug centrically" He used an adapter that attached thru the 5 lug holes. Was this the correct way to balance ? I will look at my lug holes over the next few weeks and see if they have worn in an elliptical fashion. Also double check the torque, beleive they are torqued to 80 lbs. Am also going to check the steering coupler/rag joint for excessive play, believe it to be original to the car. Having trouble finding a reputable shop that knows how to address this issue, will continue to look. Thanks for all the great suggestions !

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The rag joint would not be the source. 

Just some new thoughts I have. If this vibration is a harmonics situation on other models that Ford wanted to have a smoother ride and better overall feel they did one thing different. If you got a better model the driveshaft will have a harmonic balancer on the front end of it. What made me recall this I was cleaning up in the garage and found a driveshaft I took out of a Granada which was pretty much the same type unitized body as the Mustang, front spindles with interchange just different tie rod connection. They added that so that it cancelled out any harmonics that might come into play at different speeds or RPMs. They did not worry about that on low end models like the Mustang. They put them on several of the V-6 models due to a V-6 cannot be balanced to zero neither can a V-8 only inline 6 and V-12 can have perfect balance. I think even Ranger P.U. had them due to vibration issues.

I can get you a picture of it and you should be able to add as long as it clears everything under the car. I did find a stock picture on the net of one. CV-Slip-Yoke-Balancer.jpg

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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The vibration has to be caused by something that rotates faster than you can turn the steering wheel.

 

Yes, lug centric balancing is required for wheels that do not have a center hole that is machined to fit the exact size of the hub. I believe that aftermarket Magnums fit that category. However, just because they balanced it correctly does not mean it is correctly balanced. Balancing machines have to be maintained and calibrated. I have encountered tire places that have balancers that should be called un-balancers. Every time they balanced the same tire/wheel the weight locations changed.

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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The tire wheel scenario should be easy to eliminate. Just swap them out for some others that you borrow from a friend.

These cars do not ride like a cloud never have and never will were not meant to be luxury riders they were kind of middle of the road. You had Pinto and Maverick below them.

Wish we could see, feel what you are experiencing might be normal.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Hello, what I am feeling is definitely not normal. It really does feel like something in the front wheels it’s sort of a shake or oscillation....is still more back-and-forth. It really does feel like tire balance but I’ve had them balanced. I checked the rag joint today and I think it’s fine. If you turn the wheel very hard left or right the metal pins do hit the metal part of the steering linkage but very little play and I don’t think that’s it. Any opinion on what the magnum 500 wheels should be torque to ...the Lugnuts I mean. I may have to try to find a very highly recommended garage and see if they can re-check the balance using the adapter you have spoken up. Thanks for your help

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Hello, what I am feeling is definitely not normal. It really does feel like something in the front wheels it’s sort of a shake or oscillation....is still more back-and-forth. It really does feel like tire balance but I’ve had them balanced. I checked the rag joint today and I think it’s fine. If you turn the wheel very hard left or right the metal pins do hit the metal part of the steering linkage but very little play and I don’t think that’s it. Any opinion on what the magnum 500 wheels should be torque to ...the Lugnuts I mean. I may have to try to find a very highly recommended garage and see if they can re-check the balance using the adapter you have spoken up. Thanks for your help

 

" Back and forth " smells like strut rods moving ?  Have you checked these for chewed out bushings, loose bolts on the lower control arms etc. ? 

 

Are the control arms themselves secure ?

 

Can you lift the front end slightly to take the weight off the wheels and move as you describe ?  You're running out of options.

PKJ

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I just checked the Ford manual for wheels torque is 70 - 115 ft. lbs. That is from page 11-01-02 Volume 1 Chassis manual, 1972, I do mine 100 all the time. You of course do them in steps probably 50, 80 then 100 and jump back and forth as you go never just go around the clock tightening them.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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I just checked the Ford manual for wheels torque is 70 - 115 ft. lbs. That is from page 11-01-02 Volume 1 Chassis manual, 1972, I do mine 100 all the time. You of course do them in steps probably 50, 80 then 100 and jump back and forth as you go never just go around the clock tightening them.

Thanks very much !

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  • 1 month later...

Just curious if you ever solved your vibration problem?

 

 

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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  • 3 months later...

Hello,

 

Sorry for the lateness in this response .... very busy of late. Yes, it has been resolved and long story short it was 90% wheel balance and 10% Pittman arm. Keep in mind I have had the wheels balanced at least 3 times by reputable garages with modern equipment. I took the Mustang to a smaller garage owned by the mechanic who has been wrenching on cars for many years and does a fair amount of work on drag cars and muscle cars. He currently races a 41 Willy's dragster. He took my car for a test drive and immediately said, " pretty sure it is wheel or tire related, probably wheel balance. My Mustang has brand new Cooper Cobra's, which by the way are excellent tires and much more reasonbly priced than Radial TA's. Also have Magnum 500 wheels, the right front is brand new as the one it replaced had a wobble in it. Magnum 500's are great looking wheels but are also two piece and as such are more prone to wobble and balance issues. I have seen this on other sites and heard the same issues from other owners. I ordered a new Magnum 500 from Jegs and when it showed up they checked it for balance without a tire and told me to return it as it was out of round. I then ordered one from Coker which they spun before they shipped it to make sure it was okay, It was.

 

There are several manufacturers that produce Magnum 500's ... the two bought were made by Vintiques and the second is Specialty Wheel. When the mechanic put my car on the lift he checked all the front end components and found that they were all fine and that the alignmnent looked good, he did comment that the Pittman arm had a little play and should probably be replaced, not a safety issue, but would tighten up the steering al little. He still thought the balance was the main issue. He then commented that some of my wheels had excessive amounts of wheels weights stuck onto the inside of the rims. NO weights were installed on the outside of the rim. He advised that generally speaking you can not get a good wheel balance without placing weights on the outside of the rim. He understood why owners don't want to do this as they want there nice rims to look clean and free of weights but that contributes to poor wheel balance. He adivsed that if you don't place weights on the outside of the rim you are really only balancing half of the wheel. This is magnified especially on two piece wheels since there can be variances between the two pieces of the wheel.

 

He re-balanced all wheels and tires, placing the correct weights on the outside of the wheels and we went for a test drive. I could immediately feel an improvement sitting in the passenger seat and he did also while driving. I would say the overall improvement to the vibration problem was app. 80-90 % I did have the Pittman arm replaced which tightened up the steering and made the handling feel a little better. In my case I am certain that the problem all along was wheel balance.

 

If you get two piece wheels or mroe specifically Magnum 500's I would recommend doing some research to see which manyfacturer makes the best quality wheel and get them checked before they ship. Coker was very good about this at no extra charge. There you have it, something as simplet as wheel balance. Hopes this helps ! and thanks for all the input on this and other issues I have posted .... this is truly an amazing site !!!

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