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oil pressure should keep them pumped up once the engine is running. They may clatter on start up. I don't know what lifters you are using, but if they pump up, I would stab the distributor and run it enough to see if you actually have a problem

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"I love my Hookers!" and "Get some Strange" probably have a different connotation to non automotive enthusiasts!

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If you run it regularly they should not bleed down. I’m guessing you got a couple bad lifters. Even if they do pump up, I wouldnt want to hear them clatter every time I fire it up from them bleeding off. They should not bleed off that quickly.

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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oil pressure should keep them pumped up once the engine is running. They may clatter on start up.  I don't know what lifters you are using, but if they pump up, I would stab the distributor and run it enough to see if you actually have a problem

I have the Crower Cam Saver lifters.

They weren’t staying pumped up and got pretty noisy last time I had it running. The valves were not opening up enough and it was popping and spitting black un-burnt fuel out the tailpipes. The left side was the worst, and that’s the side I found the sloppiest rockers. There’s others too. It got worse and worse every time I tried to find the issue. Last time I had it running it barely made it around the block.

Nothing came loose and I talked to the shop owner who assembled the engine. I know they set the lash correct to begin with cause it was really running good. He even thinks I got some bad lifters too. I am curious to see if they will pump up with a drill, but I really don’t think they will. As soon as I get some time I will see what happens, really very busy with work this time of the year. Not in a big rush but I want to figure this out.

John - 72 Q Code

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Finally had a little time to work on my engine. I removed the distributor and I spun the oil pump a little, but my cheap electric drill started to smoke. I did get some oil up to the rockers on the passenger side but couldn’t see any on the other side. I want to spin it some more and I will use my air drill. I should be turning it it counterclockwise, correct? Or does it matter?

I can now feel the lifters have pumped up, but I want to spin the pump some more. Then I can go thru and reset the lash if they seem like they stay pumped.

John - 72 Q Code

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Yes it maters - Counter clockwise.  Sounds a little promising. Hope they pump up for you and you get the lash set.

Ya I can’t believe I even asked that. I know that the distributor turns that way, duh, lol. I did it more and I figured I would just let it set for awhile and see if I can push any down. I have the motor at TDC, so both the #1 intake  and exhaust valves are closed and the lifers are firm.

Ok, so it sat for about an hour and the intake valve on #1 is solid, but the exhaust is already mushy. I didn’t move the crank at all. There’s gotta be something wrong with the lifters. 

I will try again tomorrow if I can, done for tonight.

John - 72 Q Code

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I agree with that. Have never seen anything like this before. I just figured I would give it a try.

I have the intake pretty much ready to pull off and hopefully I’ll have time to remove it this weekend.

John - 72 Q Code

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I agree with that. Have never seen anything like this before. I just figured I would give it a try.

I have the intake pretty much ready to pull off and hopefully I’ll have time to remove it this weekend.

At least you tried before replacing. Basically, you are saying that after pressurizing they bled just with the weight of the lifter with no pressure from the spring. You can weld them together and make a 16 lifter tall tower decorative lamp out of them.

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20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I agree with that. Have never seen anything like this before. I just figured I would give it a try.

I have the intake pretty much ready to pull off and hopefully I’ll have time to remove it this weekend.

At least you tried before replacing. Basically, you are saying that after pressurizing they bled just with the weight of the lifter with no pressure from the spring. You can weld them together and make a 16 lifter tall tower decorative lamp out of them.

Ya that’s what is happening. The #1 intake was solid, so I set the lash. And I know that it’s not at the heal of the cam, but close enough to try to set. Now I bet it has bleed down over night. The exhaust on #1 only stayed pumped up for an hour at the most.

The lamp idea sounds like what the lifters are only good for now, lol.

John - 72 Q Code

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So I just went out and checked the lifter situation. I was wrong, the intake on cylinder #1 did stay up, but the exhaust is even worse than last night. I think there’s a couple that are good, but I think most are faulty. Time to take the intake off.

John - 72 Q Code

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wrong_lifter.jpg

 

If of any help. I think I've red on your thread that you are using Crower.

on the pict see the diff with Crower and Summit lifters. The Crowers have 2 valves.

As its very easy to open them, I'd inspect the valves of the faulty ones to make sure they're not stuck.

If they'd stayed too long on the shelves poorly lubricated or put together wrongly or with too thick grease or even having a tiny bit of corrosion, you could fix that in few instants.

They only need be shinny and receive a film of oil to operate as they should.

In my case it was the reverse, one of the new Summit was not put together correctly (retainer hat with a tiny angle). I could feel that after I've let them soak in oil and test with my thumb. In place, the pushrod felt much harder and would not come back to rest position right away.

I've open the old Crower I would not reuse first to make sure it was an easy procedure and potentially be able to salvage something from the old to new (impossible as they are totally different inside). To inspect/fix is a piece of cake.

 

Showed me once more, that "new" means very little.

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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wrong_lifter.jpg

 

If of any help. I think I've red on your thread that you are using Crower.

on the pict see the diff with Crower and Summit lifters. The Crowers have 2 valves.

As its very easy to open them, I'd inspect the valves of the faulty ones to make sure they're not stuck.

If they'd stayed too long on the shelves poorly lubricated or put together wrongly or with too thick grease or even having a tiny bit of corrosion, you could fix that in few instants.

They only need be shinny and receive a film of oil to operate as they should.

In my case it was the reverse, one of the new Summit was not put together correctly (retainer hat with a tiny angle). I could feel that after I've let them soak in oil and test with my thumb. In place, the pushrod felt much harder and would not come back to rest position right away.

I've open the old Crower I would not reuse first to make sure it was an easy procedure and potentially be able to salvage something from the old to new (impossible as they are totally different inside).  To inspect/fix is a piece of cake.

 

Showed me once more, that "new" means very little.

So one more lesson is that we shouldn't trust new parts and we should double check them all.

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20160929_171923_edit2_small.jpg

 

1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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wrong_lifter.jpg

 

If of any help. I think I've red on your thread that you are using Crower.

on the pict see the diff with Crower and Summit lifters. The Crowers have 2 valves.

As its very easy to open them, I'd inspect the valves of the faulty ones to make sure they're not stuck.

If they'd stayed too long on the shelves poorly lubricated or put together wrongly or with too thick grease or even having a tiny bit of corrosion, you could fix that in few instants.

They only need be shinny and receive a film of oil to operate as they should.

In my case it was the reverse, one of the new Summit was not put together correctly (retainer hat with a tiny angle). I could feel that after I've let them soak in oil and test with my thumb. In place, the pushrod felt much harder and would not come back to rest position right away.

I've open the old Crower I would not reuse first to make sure it was an easy procedure and potentially be able to salvage something from the old to new (impossible as they are totally different inside).  To inspect/fix is a piece of cake.

 

Showed me once more, that "new" means very little.

Thanks Fabrice, some great pics and information!

John - 72 Q Code

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Alright, so I finally got the intake manifold removed and I definitely have some bad lifters. I removed a few and submerged them in oil. I saw a couple small bubbles, but I can push them down pretty easily by finger. Even when they are totally submerged in oil, I can push them down the same. I know there’s even more.

So now I have to call the machine shop and see what happens about getting some new ones. They wouldn’t do anything till I did this test. I even have one soaking in oil overnight. The shop said that they will replace the bad ones with a new set, he just wanted to make sure they were the problem. Here’s a pic of the one of them. It has a flat spot machined in them.

5-DC0-DA87-4-B0-A-4902-A158-74-A9-B4248430.jpg

John - 72 Q Code

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At least you know what the problem is. I'd suggest checking all cam lobe lifts with a dial indicator. Chuck

Ya I did chase my tail for a while trying to figure it out, but at least I did.

 I don’t have a dial indicator. The lobes look fine, nothing unusual on them or the lifter bottoms. I cut the oil filter open and it looked good.

But I guess that would be a good idea to do. I should probably get one, been wanting one anyway.

John - 72 Q Code

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The one I soaked in oil overnight didn’t pump either. I can push the plunger down with my finger too.

I will call the shop tomorrow and see about getting new ones, but not sure that I want these cam savers. I think I just want to go with Crowers standard hydraulic lifter.

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John - 72 Q Code

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The one I soaked in oil overnight didn’t pump either. I can push the plunger down with my finger too.

I will call the shop tomorrow and see about getting new ones, but not sure that I want these cam savers. I think I just want to go with Crowers standard hydraulic lifter.

I would just go with the standard hydraulic lifter from Crowers too.

Kevin
1971 Mach 1

408C Stroker - C4 w/3,000 stall - 8.8" Rear w/3.73's - Disc brakes all way around.

 

 

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At least you know what the problem is. I'd suggest checking all cam lobe lifts with a dial indicator. Chuck

Ya I did chase my tail for a while trying to figure it out, but at least I did.

 I don’t have a dial indicator. The lobes look fine, nothing unusual on them or the lifter bottoms. I cut the oil filter open and it looked good.

But I guess that would be a good idea to do. I should probably get one, been wanting one anyway.

This is what I use. https://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66838/10002/-1  Chuck

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At least you know what the problem is. I'd suggest checking all cam lobe lifts with a dial indicator. Chuck

Ya I did chase my tail for a while trying to figure it out, but at least I did.

 I don’t have a dial indicator. The lobes look fine, nothing unusual on them or the lifter bottoms. I cut the oil filter open and it looked good.

But I guess that would be a good idea to do. I should probably get one, been wanting one anyway.

This is what I use. https://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66838/10002/-1  Chuck

Thanks again Chuck!

John - 72 Q Code

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btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

73 modified Grande 351C. (Finally back on the road woohoo!) 

71 429CJ. ( In progress )

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btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

My machinist swears by these, just got off the phone with him. Says he’s never had a bad one or any problems with Crower, says everyone is inspected. They’ve been around for a long time, very reputable brand, but I don’t know what’s going on. Anyway I talked with Crower and they want me to send these back. So I am and will see what they say. Good thing it’s winter now. Getting 4-6 inches of snow today so not driving the car anytime soon.

John - 72 Q Code

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btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

My machinist swears by these, just got off the phone with him. Says he’s never had a bad one or any problems with Crower, says everyone is inspected. They’ve been around for a long time, very reputable brand, but I don’t know what’s going on. Anyway I talked with Crower and they want me to send these back. So I am and will see what they say. Good thing it’s winter now. Getting 4-6 inches of snow today so not driving the car anytime soon.

 Ah, so this has gone way past a possible cracked distributor cap!! Out of my league for sure now, but interesting reading. I learn something new every day.

 

4-6" of snow in Mi, and I'm complaining about the 2" we have in SW Ontario!! You're welcome to it, this is waaayyy too early.

Geoff.

Geoff.

 I learn something new every day!

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btw for what it's worth.

Despite the one lifter that wasn't properly put together on the Summit set, I would actually prefer these above the Crower ones.

Sounds like B brand, but thing is they are more firm than the crowers, and having seen the guts they have also a smarter design inside.

Where the spring uses most of the radius of the cylinder, vs a much smaller one as in crowers.

That alone is preferable in my view as there is less metal stress on them and there is less chance for the valves inside getting out of line as they wear over time.

Oh and they might also be cheaper.

My machinist swears by these, just got off the phone with him. Says he’s never had a bad one or any problems with Crower, says everyone is inspected. They’ve been around for a long time, very reputable brand, but I don’t know what’s going on. Anyway I talked with Crower and they want me to send these back. So I am and will see what they say. Good thing it’s winter now. Getting 4-6 inches of snow today so not driving the car anytime soon.

 Ah, so this has gone way past a possible cracked distributor cap!! Out of my league for sure now, but interesting reading. I learn something new every day.

 

4-6" of snow in Mi, and I'm complaining about the 2" we have in SW Ontario!! You're welcome to it, this is waaayyy too early.

Geoff.

Freezing rain this morning and snow now.  In MO.  We even had snow flurries Halloween morning.  It is a mess out there!  Good time to catch up on unread posts and fill some knowledge gaps.

Wisdom, knowledge and intelligence are three very different things.

1971 convertible, H-code, Ram Air

1971 Mach I, M-code, Ram Air

1972 Mexican GT-351

1988 Bronco II

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