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Subframe connectors. Which brand?


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+1 for Tin Man.

 

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1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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I have Global West SFCs on mine - love 'em.  They're weld-in, though, don't hang down too low, and don't interfere with anything.

Man........can you come out here and help me finish this 71? your knowledge on these cars is extra ordinary. Are you from this planet? 

Fishing is great out here :-) have good ice cream too. I will put you up in a mountain cabin retreat. Ok...... thats it though cause Im out of money. 

Seriously you help a lot of people.......kudos

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Tin man's are square tube versus Global's round tubes.

 

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1971 M-Code Mach 1 w/Ram Air, 408 stroker, 285/291 0.558" roller cam, Blue Thunder intake, TKO600, Hooker headers with electric cut-offs, FiTech EFI w/ RobBMC PowerSurge pump

Strange center section with Truetrac, 3.5 gear and 31 spline axles, 4-wheel disc brakes

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Thanks for the replys! I pulled the trigger on the tin mans, I like how they tuck up against the floor pans as I might lower the car a bit. Do they make quite a bit of difference? I noticed several people saying it was one of their favorite mods...

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No companies list for a convertible. Are they unnecessary due to the floor connector plate? Any way to tighten up a vert?

 

201903231843-3-F03-H251799-88.jpg

I built my own similar to the global west connectors and then tied them into the convertible brace. I'll try to find a photo. They really stiffened the car up. connector-install5.jpg

 

D-S-connector25.jpg

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[align=left]Jeff T.

 

When I die I want to die like grandpa, peacefully in my sleep... not screaming, like his passengers. [/align]

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I have Global West SFCs on mine - love 'em.  They're weld-in, though, don't hang down too low, and don't interfere with anything.

Man........can you come out here and help me finish this 71? your knowledge on these cars is extra ordinary. Are you from this planet? 

Fishing is great out here :-) have good ice cream too. I will put you up in a mountain cabin retreat. Ok...... thats it though cause Im out of money. 

Seriously you help a lot of people.......kudos

 

LOL!  Thanks for the kind words. 

 

I only know as much as I do by virtue of having been part of this site since 2010 when I first bought my '71.  I had basic skills back then, and with all of the information sharing and encouragement received along the way, I felt like I could take on anything... so, I did - and everything's pretty well worked out along the way.  The few set backs I did encounter were more from my jumping in without first researching.  I couldn't have done it without everybody's help and encouragement, in other words.

 

I see you're from Boise - Awesome!  I grew up a few hours south in Sandy, Utah.  Oh, how I would love nothing more than to leave West Texas behind in the rear view mirror and get back to the Intermountain West and Wasatch Front.  Were that the case, we'd have yours squared away in no time, I'm sure.

 

OK - back on topic: here's a quick shot of the passenger side SFC.  Forgive my less than stellar welds... might be ugly, but they are solid.

 

subframeconnectors1.jpg

 

The rear frame rails are slightly wider [in stance] than the fronts, so the Global West SFCs line-up directly with them, and bend inward as they contact the front frame rails.  They don't hang down any lower than the front frame rails, as you can see.

 

Hope this helps!

Eric

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This is my opinion, make your own none of the current mfg. use the best materials. 

I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer. They use cheap DOM or box tube to make the connectors. There are materials that are 3 to 4 times stronger than what they use. 

Google Domex From Swedish Steel and they supply in rounds and shapes. It is 4 times stronger than normal tube. It requires no special weld process. I think Texas is the best warehouse for the material you will see what is available. I am going to make my own fro my vert. Anything you add will add to the strength of the chassis. I am going to use a 6 or 8 point cage also. I will also add formed sections to the inside of the rocker boxes. 

Making the chassis stiff lets the suspension work. 

A product I redesigned for John Deere won their best design product it was their combine. I made 10 feet wider but lighter and stronger using Domex. 

Think outside the box and do not follow the herd. Here is a link to get you started look at the tubes and shapes. It works and will shock you at how much stronger it is with no weld issues because of the low carbon content. https://www.ssab.com/products/brands/ssab-domex

 

Cheers,

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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Make your own, using the DazeCars instructions

https://dazecars.com/dazed/sub-frame.html

 

May need some modifications, though

https://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-subframe-connectors-diy

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“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”

--Albert Einstein

 

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This is my opinion, make your own none of the current mfg. use the best materials. 

I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer. They use cheap DOM or box tube to make the connectors. There are materials that are 3 to 4 times stronger than what they use. 

Google Domex From Swedish Steel and they supply in rounds and shapes. It is 4 times stronger than normal tube. It requires no special weld process. I think Texas is the best warehouse for the material you will see what is available. I am going to make my own fro my vert. Anything you add will add to the strength of the chassis. I am going to use a 6 or 8 point cage also. I will also add formed sections to the inside of the rocker boxes. 

Making the chassis stiff lets the suspension work. 

A product I redesigned for John Deere won their best design product it was their combine. I made 10 feet wider but lighter and stronger using Domex. 

Think outside the box and do not follow the herd. Here is a link to get you started look at the tubes and shapes. It works and will shock you at how much stronger it is with no weld issues because of the low carbon content. https://www.ssab.com/products/brands/ssab-domex

 

Cheers,

 

Understand the sentiment, but 'cheap DOM' is not a term I'm familiar with - DOM is DOM, expensive and very sturdy.  Most extreme off-road vehicles use DOM for the their roll cages, pay handsomely for it, and I've rarely seen or heard of any issues with said roll cages, aside from crappy welding by the substandard assemblers.

 

I think having a set of manufactured DOM-based sub frame connectors on our cars will be just fine - it's not like we're running the BAJA 1000, King of the Hammers, or anything like that.

Eric

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This is my opinion, make your own none of the current mfg. use the best materials. 

I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer. They use cheap DOM or box tube to make the connectors. There are materials that are 3 to 4 times stronger than what they use. 

Google Domex From Swedish Steel and they supply in rounds and shapes. It is 4 times stronger than normal tube. It requires no special weld process. I think Texas is the best warehouse for the material you will see what is available. I am going to make my own fro my vert. Anything you add will add to the strength of the chassis. I am going to use a 6 or 8 point cage also. I will also add formed sections to the inside of the rocker boxes. 

Making the chassis stiff lets the suspension work. 

A product I redesigned for John Deere won their best design product it was their combine. I made 10 feet wider but lighter and stronger using Domex. 

Think outside the box and do not follow the herd. Here is a link to get you started look at the tubes and shapes. It works and will shock you at how much stronger it is with no weld issues because of the low carbon content. https://www.ssab.com/products/brands/ssab-domex

 

Cheers,

 

Understand the sentiment, but 'cheap DOM' is not a term I'm familiar with - DOM is DOM, expensive and very sturdy.  Most extreme off-road vehicles use DOM for the their roll cages, pay handsomely for it, and I've rarely seen or heard of any issues with said roll cages, aside from crappy welding by the substandard assemblers.

 

I think having a set of manufactured DOM-based sub frame connectors on our cars will be just fine - it's not like we're running the BAJA 1000, King of the Hammers, or anything like that.

 

 

I agree. Not to mention the fact that 95% of board members do not have the shop or tools necessary to make their own so even if your time is only worth a dime an hour its still better to purchase a pre-made set. 

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I am seeing Global West and Tin Man. Any opinions on these?

I used tinman as they look like an extension of the stock rails/floor supports. I have a friend  who installed global west. You cant go wrong with either.

1973 H Code Convertible - Medium Copper Metallic - June 8, 1973, Built Ford Marketing Sales Vehicle

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satellite.png Proud Space Junk Award Winner!

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This is my opinion, make your own none of the current mfg. use the best materials. 

I was an automotive product, process and tooling engineer. They use cheap DOM or box tube to make the connectors. There are materials that are 3 to 4 times stronger than what they use. 

Google Domex From Swedish Steel and they supply in rounds and shapes. It is 4 times stronger than normal tube. It requires no special weld process. I think Texas is the best warehouse for the material you will see what is available. I am going to make my own fro my vert. Anything you add will add to the strength of the chassis. I am going to use a 6 or 8 point cage also. I will also add formed sections to the inside of the rocker boxes. 

Making the chassis stiff lets the suspension work. 

A product I redesigned for John Deere won their best design product it was their combine. I made 10 feet wider but lighter and stronger using Domex. 

Think outside the box and do not follow the herd. Here is a link to get you started look at the tubes and shapes. It works and will shock you at how much stronger it is with no weld issues because of the low carbon content. https://www.ssab.com/products/brands/ssab-domex

 

Cheers,

 

Understand the sentiment, but 'cheap DOM' is not a term I'm familiar with - DOM is DOM, expensive and very sturdy.  Most extreme off-road vehicles use DOM for the their roll cages, pay handsomely for it, and I've rarely seen or heard of any issues with said roll cages, aside from crappy welding by the substandard assemblers.

 

I think having a set of manufactured DOM-based sub frame connectors on our cars will be just fine - it's not like we're running the BAJA 1000, King of the Hammers, or anything like that.

Go check the specs on yield strength of your materials I bet the Domex is at least twice as strong. DOM just means there is no weld seam it does not mean it is strong. That was what I did design products not buy products. I used in John Deere ZTR commercial mowers, conbines both small grain and corn. It works way better than even 4140 which has all kinds of weld issues. Go read some of the case histories of the Domex. The people making stuff for our cars are making as cheap as they can they do not care if it is the best or not.

Any product can be improved easily.

When a man is in the woods and talks and no women are there is he still wrong??:P

David

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David:  Like I said, I totally understand your sentiment and don't doubt your experience with products, materials, or otherwise.  But all things considered, how strong does it really need to be?  The SFCs are designed to tie the front and rear sub frames together to combat longitudinal torsional flex - if the tubing is strong enough to do what it's designed to do, why waste the time, money, and effort to overbuild it?  Again, the overwhelming majority of our cars will never see track time, nor suffer the kinds of forces that would exceed the tensile strength of standard materials.  

 

Mrxerox hit the nail on the head as well: "95% of board members do not have the shop or tools necessary to make their own so even if your time is only worth a dime an hour its still better to purchase a pre-made set."  And no, that's not because they're wives won't let them do it themselves, either.   :whistling:

 

Then there's whole misnomer that domex is stronger than DOM tubing.  I admit I wasn't 100% sure of the differences between DOM and domex... so I looked it all up.  

 

Yes, it appears that domex is one of the harder mild steels of late based on low-alloy materials.  In one of your posts you mentioned that the lower the carbon content, the higher the tensile strength... which flies in the face of forging methodology.  Higher carbon content means harder steel, not the other way around.  Mild steel is used for these applications to not only be hard, but maintain some flexibility to ensure the pieces don't shatter when their strength parameters are exceeded (like forged hardened steel would).

 

The vast majority of steel tubing is formed by wrapping the mild steel around the cylindrical dies and welding the seam closed.  True seamless tubing is made from cylindrical blanks basically being bored through the center and drug over a mandrel for shaping (and probably a LOT more expensive to produce). 

 

DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing's big claim to fame is that the tubes are 'almost' seamless (not 100% - you just can't see the welds because the process of using the mandrel for final shaping smashes the seams flat).  DOM is also not specifically based on any particular material, meaning that one could feasibly have domex DOM tubing.  Most DOM tubing used for racing applications is made from Chromoloy, which is heavier than aluminum tubing, but much stronger and rated for aerospace applications.

 

So in reality, comparing DOM against domex is basically not much different than comparing crepes to pancake batter when you get right down to it.  Domex may be stronger than Chromoloy, but considering that the aerospace industry uses it, along with being very popular for racing applications, I'm thinking that using a purchased set of SFCs will serve the purpose just fine.

Eric

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Global West here and more than pleased.

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I’m making my own from the tin man diagrams. I bought the 2” steel square tubing from my rebuttable steel and fab shop. I didn’t even worry about some Dom whatever steel. I have never had a problem with any, well I guess soft steel? Jeez really? I guess if I were racing or jumping ramps, then I guess. But we’re just talking about some frame connectors.

I built overhead cranes and floor conveyers for the automotive industry, well of course that was different. Was a long time ago and I really don’t remember what exact steel was used, I just did the fab, the paint and some install too. I highly doubt it was much other than just a good quality cold rolled flat and square tubing. Again, it’s been 30 years since I was doing that.

John - 72 Q Code

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